334 replies to this topic

[byebye360]

Y E O N N E, on 30 May 2021 - 01:21 PM, said:

They are going to be getting damaged buffed back up a bit. The goal of the nerf was met, but a bit too well.

I thought the goal was to make everything a bit deadlier why was a nerf even considered by them and not for the ones they found to be the best like pulse lasers?

[C337Skymaster]

byebye360, on 30 May 2021 - 02:50 PM, said:

I thought the goal was to make everything a bit deadlier why was a nerf even considered by them and not for the ones they found to be the best like pulse lasers?

Light pilots were terrified of running into something like a Stormcrow (30 streak tubes) or Huntsman (36 streak tubes) which could typically do enough damage to rip a side off in one shot (which is death to an IS XL engine). Honestly, they were right to fear that, but two or three PPCs can do the same thing, since they pin-point front-load their damage. Dual IS AC/20's are the same way, or dual Heavy Gauss Rifles (which more often just outright kill the 'mech with the first shot).

Because Streaks lock on, and are the only fire-and-forget missile in the game, they're judged more harshly than other weapon systems which can accomplish the same task, often with greater ease. Light pilots don't realize that the same erattic movement which can make aiming a direct-fire weapon difficult will also make achieving a target lock with streaks difficult.

[Y E O N N E]

byebye360, on 30 May 2021 - 02:50 PM, said:

I thought the goal was to make everything a bit deadlier why was a nerf even considered by them and not for the ones they found to be the best like pulse lasers?

The goal is not to make everything deadlier, the goal is to give everything some viable purpose. Clan Streaks were found to be too strong against Lights while lacking any DPS to be useful against other things due to the extended cooldown; the change was an attempt to flip that narrative. The damage nerf went too far, so it's coming back a little bit.

The good weapons didn't get touched because they are the benchmark for everything else.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 31 May 2021 - 08:23 AM.

[SockSlayer]

I am gonna mention flamers yet again and why I still think they need to be seriously looked at and re-looked at. I will go off a factual situation...Looking up on longest flamerthrower, there was a vehicle known as the Churchhill Crocodile, It did have a flamerthrower on it that could do 110 m, with some sources saying it could do 140 m...This was in 1944... And this is ancient compared to what mechs supposedly can do.

So...the year in this game is 3052...and a flamer doesn't even break 100 m on most builds? So for a 1000 years plus the flamer hasn't moved anywhere? Highly unlikely. I'd still take the original flamers back...0.7 damage even if it can't overheat anything, it would be way better than what we have now...

pyro 4ever

Edited by SockSlayer, 31 May 2021 - 03:22 PM.

[Rizzi Kell]

Gimme the Patchnote for next patch.... just so short on just deinstall, and never come back. I waited a long time for fixes, but what happens IS side always get nices, and Clan always go worse. So stop buffing OP-Side IS for just the COMP guys in the Cauldron, and get back some power to Clanside. You whant my money? so do something right, and not this again.

[justcallme A S H]

Clan side is extremely strong now?

Have you not watched any Comp matches from last week? Plenty of Clan mech representation...

[KursedVixen]

byebye360, on 29 May 2021 - 08:20 PM, said:

Went and tried c-ssrms and atms again now that I have a bit more time, i'm just going to give up on them and swap them for srms or lrms, in the rather small tube count I've been using them with as a secondary or tertiary weapon they no longer work for me.

the smaller tube count to Lrms made ATms not worth it as a replacment for LRMs not to mention their arc did not do as well either, What is PGI thinking by increasing ATM damage at long range? I don't see a point to this in Tabletop ATms could not do indirect fire and were more like a clan version of the MRM with tracking... the biggest thing that killed ATMs for me orginally was that horridly large minimium range, which Pgi pulled out from the ER ammo which does 1 point of damage per missile and the standard ammo we would have been better off with out MWLL Does it with ATM HE and ATM ER launchers but this latest damage reduction in it's most usable area for me has killed ATMs for me.

I never used clan streaks much in the first place so reducing their damage has made me completely avoid them and just use standard Srms.... they're lighter anyway, and from what i've heard streaks spread was horrid.

Edited by KursedVixen, 10 June 2021 - 04:04 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

KursedVixen, on 10 June 2021 - 04:03 PM, said:

the smaller tube count to Lrms made ATms not worth it as a replacment for LRMs not to mention their arc did not do as well either, What is PGI thinking by increasing ATM damage at long range? I don't see a point to this in Tabletop ATms could not do indirect fire and were more like a clan version of the MRM with tracking... the biggest thing that killed ATMs for me orginally was that horridly large minimium range, which Pgi pulled out from the ER ammo which does 1 point of damage per missile and the standard ammo we would have been better off with out MWLL Does it with ATM HE and ATM ER launchers but this latest damage reduction in it's most usable area for me has killed ATMs for me.

I never used clan streaks much in the first place so reducing their damage has made me completely avoid them and just use standard Srms.... they're lighter anyway, and from what i've heard streaks spread was horrid.

So the TT point of ATMs was to be an "all-in-one" weapon system, and allow a 'mech to simply carry different types of ammo, rather than entirely different weapon systems. For example, the Atlas carries four medium lasers, an AC20, an LRM 20, and an SRM 6. Instead of an LRM AND an SRM system, those would be replaced by an ATM 12 (Biggest and biggest replaced by biggest), which frees up some space and tonnage for maybe a second ATM launcher, or more heat sinks, or something? And instead of firing one or the other launcher, you simply load the most applicable ammo. It's much less efficient at range, but much more efficient once you close in, and it has a much higher maximum range than LRMs did (hopefully compensating for the fact that the missiles are twice the size: half as many per ton).

As for streak vs standard SRMs, the TT point of streak technology was to save ammo and heat. Rather than expending ammo and having to dissipate heat on a shot that misses the target and doesn't accomplish anything, if the shot's a miss, then nothing happened, and if it's a hit, then you take the ammo and heat penalties of firing a weapon. In MWO, streaks are the ONLY fire-and-forget weapon system (you can fire them and break lock, and they will track independently and still hit the target if it doesn't move behind something or go out of range). Also in MWO, SRMs have a pretty horrid spread, too (at least Clan ones, do), so you fire 12 missiles, and 6 hit, with the other 6 bracketing the target to either side. Helpful if the target is jinking, so if your aim is slightly off, the "side" missiles will hit, instead, but still missing with about half the damage fired. Streaks always hit (unless shot down by AMS, blocked by solid cover, or shot beyond their range), so there's no "missed" damage. It hits every part of the target, but everything hits.

[Rizzi Kell]

justcallme A S H, on 10 June 2021 - 01:55 PM, said:

Clan side is extremely strong now?

Have you not watched any Comp matches from last week? Plenty of Clan mech representation...

you talking about Comp....not Quickplay or Factionplay..... that is what i ever have said, your mighty patches just perform good in COMP, but how many players are in Comp and how many in Quick and Faction????? [Redacted] btw timetokilltime is just over average....was it not to do other way?

Edited by Armchair General, 16 June 2021 - 08:32 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

The patches are not designed at all with Comp in mind. This has been stated multiple times.

However it proves what is and is not good. Plenty of Clan Mechs are good in fact they are better than that. They are some of my best performing right now in QuickPlay without a shadow of a doubt.

If you are not doing as well you probably need to adjust to the updates in the game, look at builds etc. Players will always need to adapt to balance shifts and some do it faster than others.

[Rizzi Kell]

justcallme A S H, on 13 June 2021 - 11:04 PM, said:

The patches are not designed at all with Comp in mind. This has been stated multiple times.

However it proves what is and is not good. Plenty of Clan Mechs are good in fact they are better than that. They are some of my best performing right now in QuickPlay without a shadow of a doubt.

If you are not doing as well you probably need to adjust to the updates in the game, look at builds etc. Players will always need to adapt to balance shifts and some do it faster than others.

once again why do comp players always prefer IS side in CW? you talking stupid things with an inbranded meaning, you are one wich meaning would be heared, my opinion is less interessting to you, cause i´m all Clanplayer. so stop talking ******** like Clans are so OP, they are not. we have one good going mech ands one wich is okay too, talking about Vapors and Bloodasps, nothing to compare against Is side regardless of the range. We lose on all sides, DMG on Range, DMG on Midrange and dmg on Brawl, our ECM is a joke in comparson of Stealth, and our counterstealth is guarded on ONE weapon. We got disadvantage in Armor, Strukture and Lockonweapons especialy streaks, take two compareable Platforms, The Riffleman 2C with 6 AC2 was outbeeting by a Jagermech with 5 AC2.... you are up to show me the 3 Times Alphabuilds 50+ DMG on Clanside without using coolshot, we can not equip any engine to get faster or to take more heatsinks our omnimechs stuck in same rolls every time again without the chance to get usefull stuff in(Like it should be) where is our ER-LArgelaser build wich could fire 5 ER-Largelasers without getting shot down? where is our alphaable LargePulslaser boat with 5+ Lasers?
Talking to you is like talking to an Aplle-employee you show whats going wrong but they just say but look IS is doing well..... same thing of the other side of the POO...
This is my Opinion and this is probably not the game i would like to play, or pay for. so just go on, and you will see, it is not funny to wait for aponments in CW for hours, cause one side is absolutly unballanced....and on the othersides are the allmighty comppros. and yes i tested different setups, and i tested the IS side.

[justcallme A S H]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

once again why do comp players always prefer IS side in CW? you talking stupid things with an inbranded meaning,

And yet just last night I played 4-5hrs straight of Clan FP. Same as a couple if weeks ago, all Clan, all night long.

Maybe you should try using better arguments, oh and something other than SSRMs.

[Yllirion]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

you are up to show me the 3 Times Alphabuilds 50+ DMG on Clanside without using coolshot, we can not equip any engine to get faster or to take more heatsinks our omnimechs stuck in same rolls every time again without the chance to get usefull stuff in(Like it should be)

Wut?

Nova Cat 2LPL 5MPL, 61 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 4 times = 244 damage
Hellbringer 2LPL 4ERML ECM, 52 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 4 times = 208 damage
Hellbringer 2HLL 5ERML -10% heat gen omnipod, 68.5 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 3 times = 205,5 damage

Its just heavy mechs, but you can build a real monsters, like a DeathStrike 2GR 2LPL 4ERML

Stop crying about clans.

[Aivazovsky]

Rizzi Kell, on 13 June 2021 - 10:54 PM, said:

but how many players are in Comp and how many in Quick and Faction?

about FP population:
ongoing tournament: https://www.toorname...9306368/stages/
26 teams, that's ~ 400-500 motivated and active players Yeaaaah, FP u say...

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

once again why do comp players always prefer IS side in CW?

I prefer the attacking side, so i play both IS/Clans sides equally well. My damage and KMDD are usually higher when i play for Сlans, because IS mechs are so slow, juicy and delicious

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

so stop talking ******** like Clans are so OP, they are not.

Nobody from the Cauldron said that the Clans are OP, you argue with your own statements. Clans have less variability in weapon systems and chassis, that's true. But they have their own strengths. Why your CW-x mate Leon Ward or Cyberrior almost always do x2 much as you do in FP? You play the same mechs.

[Rizzi Kell]

Yllirion, on 14 June 2021 - 05:23 AM, said:

Wut?

Nova Cat 2LPL 5MPL, 61 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 4 times = 244 damage
Hellbringer 2LPL 4ERML ECM, 52 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 4 times = 208 damage
Hellbringer 2HLL 5ERML -10% heat gen omnipod, 68.5 dmg alpha strike, can shoot 3 times = 205,5 damage

Its just heavy mechs, but you can build a real monsters, like a DeathStrike 2GR 2LPL 4ERML

Stop crying about clans.

And again Not reading right...Clan equvalent of 6 LPL Banshee 5 to 6 LPL battlemaster, so arguing against IS fanboys doesn`t make big sense. [Redacted]
Did i destroy your plaything you Are So proud of? Yes ? I m Not sorry about this, cause you destroy mine, and this with each New Patch more and More. Who is these mighty cauldron of people, Not voted by the comunity, just elekted by who? Wo is there to Tage advantage of My will? It is Not ash or any Other. And Ash, you Played one Evening clan...and Compare that to be Equal???? [Redacted]

.

Edited by Armchair General, 16 June 2021 - 08:33 AM.

[Yllirion]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 11:24 AM, said:

And again Not reading right...Clan equvalent of 6 LPL Banshee 5 to 6 LPL battlemaster, so arguing against IS fanboys doesn`t make big sense. [Redacted]
Did i destroy your plaything you Are So proud of? Yes ? I m Not sorry about this, cause you destroy mine, and this with each New Patch more and More. Who is these mighty cauldron of people, Not voted by the comunity, just elekted by who? Wo is there to Tage advantage of My will? It is Not ash or any Other. And Ash, you Played one Evening clan...and Compare that to be Equal????[Redacted]

You get scared by LPLs Banshees and Battlemasters. ... XLs Banshees and Battlemasters. ... Its just a fun mechs, how you can have any problem with they?!

Edited by Armchair General, 16 June 2021 - 08:33 AM.
quote cleanup

[Rizzi Kell]

Yllirion, on 14 June 2021 - 12:38 PM, said:

You get scared by LPLs Banshees and Battlemasters. ... XLs Banshees and Battlemasters. ... Its just a fun mechs, how you can have any problem with they?!

Two of them Core you out in one Sekund, without a Chance to Twist... nearly pinpoint dmg. Alpha it get a coolshot and you can fire to aditional twotimes 3 lplbursts. Same Effekt.yes they run Hot but without a counterchance it is OP.

[justcallme A S H]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 11:24 AM, said:

And again Not reading right.

I am reading right. You are just moving the goalposts as your arguments are picked apart for being completely wrong. You claimed there was no 50 alpha damage possible and firing 3 times in a row.

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 01:31 AM, said:

You are up to show me the 3 Times Alphabuilds 50+ DMG on Clanside without using coolshot

Yet Yllirion gave you 3.

The "3 times without being too hot" also clearly shows you do not understand good gameplay with Clan mechs. You want to trade - once. Cool, Trade again. That is now you play high alpha Clan, always has been.

I have plenty more builds, none are 3x in a row capable but as I said that is not good gameplay and almost completely irrelevant in FP because of the trading-style of good gameplay. Hence you want the highest alpha possible and fade into cover. That is Trading 101.

EBJ-B 65dmg / HBR-PRIME 68.5dmg ECM!

MAD-IIC - 78dmg Alpha

DEATHSTRIKE - 65dmg 5LPL - Can alpha all 5 cLPL at over 620m.
DEATHSTRIKE - 78dmg 6LPL - Big boi build. You need some skill to use, but it's absolutely brutal.

MCII-1 - 79dmg Alpha on a double-tap.

BAS-A 78dmg - Alpha capable.
BAS-A 78dmg - Alpha capable.


Comparatively lets look at a IS equivalent Heavy which has less range and speed...

GHR-5H 51dmg

Clan mechs on average are doing 15-40dmg more - at longer ranges. Seems plenty strong enough to me if you play then properly. And I mean, I do, regularly.

It would seem you essentially just lack understanding of gameplay and how to actualy use the mechs.

[justcallme A S H]

Rizzi Kell, on 14 June 2021 - 09:55 PM, said:

Two of them Core you out in one Sekund, without a Chance to Twist... nearly pinpoint dmg. Alpha it get a coolshot and you can fire to aditional twotimes 3 lplbursts. Same Effekt.yes they run Hot but without a counterchance it is OP.

If you are getting cored that fast you are positioning poorly, making very bad peaks/trades and not twisting.

You should be standing at 550m+ away at which point the 55dmg LPL are no longer doing, 55dmg
Then added to the fact they are IS Mechs so it's mandatory XL - ever XL checked a IS Mech? It's like magic, they disappear and most Clan builds can completely open a IS Mech torso to orange in a single volley if aimed well.

Overall everything you keep posting comes back to just having better gameplay. You're being outplayed, nothing more. Certainly not balance.

[Y E O N N E]

5x LPL also doesn't seem like a trading build as much as a mid-range pushing build. Trying to push on that with an actual trading build would, and should, cause you to get burned down. The IS Assault trading vomit builds are more like 4LPL+4ERML or 5LL+3ERML, all eating ghost while alpha-striking for 60-64 damage.

If you want to pusha pusha with Clan lasers, do it from 700 meters with C-LPL. Those 5x LPL XL Battlemasters won't stand a chance even with a 10% range buff on the 1G.