40 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

November11th, on 01 June 2021 - 08:08 PM, said:

I mean. We COULD just adjust them so they arnt OP.
Like shorter range or more heat; like give them snub noses and cluster bombs.
Super hot, super effective, super short range?

I just like running around popping people xD.

Also laser vomit can be made to be super cold by offsetting with heat sinks. Im just saying, there has to be an easier way to get 40 points of spread damage out of a cannon, that doesnt limit one to super heavy mechs.

LB20's are not a valid arguement btw; because it defeats the whole exercise.

You don't have any valid arguments except "I want!" why should you have 4 pieces of second largest autocannons in the game (which are super leathal btw.) in fast moving mech? sounds bit silly.

edit. because LB20s are valid argument for fastmovers heres one, bit low on ammo but you can pop few enemies with this eez. TBR-PRIME

Edited by Curccu, 02 June 2021 - 11:26 AM.

[1453 R]

The request is "four medium-sized cannons w/7 tons of ammunition, IS only, no iXL, 50-75-ton range, moving 65-70kph"?

Here you go: BLACK WIDOW

Now, word to the wise: this 'Mech is ****. As other posters have told you several times, the reason you can't get what you want is that four autocannons can deal 40 damage. ~2 seconds later, they can deal 40 damage again. ~2 seconds later, they can deal 40 damage again. So on and so forth, long past the point where any other 'Mech would be melting itself down into slag. Autocannons weigh as much as they do because they're the best compromise of damage, heat efficiency, and refire in MWO by a country mile. Gauss rifles are technically more heat-efficient sources of damage, but their cycle rate sucks and they're terrible in close. An AC/10, meanwhile, can chunk someone for ten points of damage every two to two and a half seconds until it runs out of ammunition, without ever concerning itself with the heat bar.

Laser vomit and other energy-centric builds have much higher initial spikes but cannot begin to match the DPS/DPH efficiency of autocannon-centric builds. Energy vomit shoots twice, then disengages to spend thirty seconds cooling off before shooting again.

Missiles splatter damage everywhere, distinctly lacking the focused punch of cannons. IS missiles also aren't much lighter than IS cannons, and in the numbers needed to threaten enemies they're not that much cooler than energy vomit.

If you want to cruise around and hammer away with AC/10s in the heavyweight class at 70kph? Drop two autocannons, then use the speed and agility you gained by not being a Gojira or a Fatnir to find more favorable engagements. You're going to be distinctly worse at this than Clan 'Mechs simply because the cXL exists and weight is the most critical factor for dakka-centric builds, but you can do it. This CTF-3D, for example, is two UAC/10s with a huge jam chance reduction quirk and nine tons of ammo, moving at 65kph. Get the jam reduction in the tree, go ham on people. Still not a good build, but miles better than that Warhammer, and two UAC/10s is more-or-less equivalent to four regular AC/10s untril they jam. Which this particular 'Mech is good at avoiding.

Elsewise? You're asking for ponies and plastic rockets here, man. What you want is simply not the way BattleTech works, and unlike other "Not The Way BattleTech Works" issues, this is an important one Piranha should not **** up.

[InvictusLee]

All of those are super valid arguements lol.

But the hunchie IIc exists which can put out the damage im looking for, and in the manner Id like, but it sacrifices alot of speed and armor to accomplish that. Why CANT there be a heavy weight equivalent without walking into assault territory?

[InvictusLee]

I was hoping for alot of theory crafting in this thread lol

[LordNothing]

Leone, on 01 June 2021 - 05:29 PM, said:

But the Piranha. So much dakka. So much speed.

~Leone.

machineguns are fine as dps weapons. but there are very few ppfld ballistic options for lights. the mw5 rifles are pretty good and fill this out perfectly at least in that game. getting them in mwo would mean things like dual light rifle fleas and locusts. or dual medium rifle cicadas.

[InvictusLee]

LordNothing, on 02 June 2021 - 07:39 PM, said:

machineguns are fine as dps weapons. but there are very few ppfld ballistic options for lights. the mw5 rifles are pretty good and fill this out perfectly at least in that game. getting them in mwo would mean things like dual light rifle fleas and locusts. or dual medium rifle cicadas.

A Cicada as anything other than a confused and fat light mech?!

THIS IS HERESY! CALL THE INQUISITION!

[LordNothing]

November11th, on 02 June 2021 - 08:30 PM, said:

A Cicada as anything other than a confused and fat light mech?!

THIS IS HERESY! CALL THE INQUISITION!

i meant a cicada with medium rifle. not a medium cicada with rifle. a cicada is still a 40 ton squirrel, a bunny perhaps.

[InvictusLee]

LordNothing, on 02 June 2021 - 09:06 PM, said:

i meant a cicada with medium rifle. not a medium cicada with rifle. a cicada is still a 40 ton squirrel, a bunny perhaps.

an actual bone cicada bug would be a more effective against a battlemech. Kaiju cicada!

[Khobai]

November11th, on 02 June 2021 - 07:17 PM, said:

All of those are super valid arguements lol.

But the hunchie IIc exists which can put out the damage im looking for, and in the manner Id like, but it sacrifices alot of speed and armor to accomplish that. Why CANT there be a heavy weight equivalent without walking into assault territory?

my hunchback IIC goes 64kph which is admittedly slow but thats because I opted to carry 7.5 tons of ammo

but it shouldnt have to sacrifice any armor except on the arms which it doesnt need anyway

my hunchback IIC-A however goes 82kph with a 75 damage laser vomit alpha. it runs super hot but since i generally just poke out and fire once that doesnt really matter. and I run 2 coolants.


what do you mean a heavy weight equivalent? you mean a heavy that can run dual UAC20s in high hardpoints without ghost heat?

Edited by Khobai, 03 June 2021 - 05:11 AM.

[1453 R]

November11th, on 02 June 2021 - 07:17 PM, said:

All of those are super valid arguements lol.

But the hunchie IIc exists which can put out the damage im looking for, and in the manner Id like, but it sacrifices alot of speed and armor to accomplish that. Why CANT there be a heavy weight equivalent without walking into assault territory?

.
..
...

...the Hunchback IIC is a Clan 'Mech. You specifically said "no Clan 'Mechs" as part of your requirements on this request. If Clan 'Mechs are allowed, then there's not much 'theorycrafting' going on in here because your requirements have already been met several times over.

The Cauldron-Born can carry multiple autocannons and moves eighty klicks an hour. It generally does better with 5s than 10s, but it can carry a couple of 10s and scads of ammo without issue.

The Night Gyr can carry three cUAC/10s with enough-ish ammo and ECM, to boot. Sure, it moves like an assault 'Mech, but it still gets up to 65kph - and it can jump over minor obstacles to aid in being slightly less fat. It's basically a 75-ton Dire Whale with a much higher groundspeed, but that's fine - it's what people wanted when they asked for the Night Gyr.

The Nova Cat is less lulzlow than the Night Gyr (sorta) and can be fitted with two 10s and a 5, alongside a couple of lasers for backup. No ECM and no jumpy-jets, but it's a little nimbler than the Night Gyr and converts easily back into the energy and missile fits the Nova Cat does better than the Night Gyr anyways.

Virtually all Clan heavy 'Mechs with the exception of the Linebacker and sorta-the-Summoner can be fitted with multiple fives or a 10 and significant backup weaponry. My (current) best Timber Wolf is centered on a cUAC/10 and backup gear. There's not much theorycrafting to be done - pick your favorite Clan heavy chassis, stuff cannons on it, remember to jam ammo into the undies, and go shoot robits.

Edited by 1453 R, 03 June 2021 - 07:11 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

1453 R, on 03 June 2021 - 07:09 AM, said:

...the Hunchback IIC is a Clan 'Mech. You specifically said "no Clan 'Mechs" as part of your requirements on this request. If Clan 'Mechs are allowed, then there's not much 'theorycrafting' going on in here because your requirements have already been met several times over.

The best you're going to get from an IS heavy mech is a triple LBX/10 or a dual LBX/20 like these folks:

https://mech.nav-alp...085d7768_CTF-IM

https://mech.nav-alp...115113dc_WHM-6R

[Khobai]

he wants something faster though

you cant do it without CXL

[1453 R]

Correction: you can do it with an iXL as easily* as a cXL. That simply has issues most players are unwilling to face these days.





*exempting the fact that all Inner Sphere weapons are unreasonably fat, anyways.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Faster than 64kph for an IS 75 ton mech with 40-50 tons of weapons payload? Yeah.

[InvictusLee]

Lol! I love the unicorn.

[Wildstreak]

No MWO Annies owned, only drove an Annie in MW5 but it was actually fun despite the slow speed and had no problems beyond own skill.

Course this was an offensive mission, if it were something like Defense or Warzone it would have been worse.

[LordNothing]

Khobai, on 02 June 2021 - 12:35 AM, said:

yeah maybe. the point is weapon switching is totally doable. PGI just lyin

i dont think they know how to deal with the complexity of having multiple weapons with multiple ammo types and how to switch them easily. do the modifier+# to cycle ammo on all weapons in each group.

Edited by LordNothing, 04 June 2021 - 06:05 PM.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 04 June 2021 - 06:03 PM, said:

i dont think they know how to deal with the complexity of having multiple weapons with multiple ammo types and how to switch them easily. do the modifier+# to cycle ammo on all weapons in each group.

It might be easier for PGI to add switchable firing modes that draw from only one ammo type, i.e. LBX cluster and slug both use the same ammo. We sort of already have toggleable things with AMS and ECM.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 04 June 2021 - 06:11 PM, said:

It might be easier for PGI to add switchable firing modes that draw from only one ammo type, i.e. LBX cluster and slug both use the same ammo. We sort of already have toggleable things with AMS and ECM.

why limit ammo types to just one weapon?

[LordNothing]

November11th, on 03 June 2021 - 10:23 PM, said:

Lol! I love the unicorn.

he looks like he tore something.