619 replies to this topic

[pattonesque]

Monke-, on 04 July 2021 - 09:17 AM, said:

And? Yes lights can exploit openings to get backstabs easier but if they get spotted before they can dive then they're far more likely to die without getting to do much damage, there is a trade off for that mobility gives you options.

they shouldn't be able to do it because it makes me sad, they should all run around at 90 kph AT MOST and also be the size of a Shadow Hawk, this is canon

[Leone]

You don't need to be a light to get backshots,I do it with mediums and heavies all the time. Heck, just park an assualt off the usual nascar routes and you can get backshots with assaults. If you think a light'll shred a mech's rear armour, you've been missing out.

~Leone.

[PocketYoda]

Vladokapuh, on 04 July 2021 - 07:38 AM, said:

"like piranha" just means piranha.
there is nothing else doing what that specific mech does.

Fleas come close.

Scout Derek, on 03 July 2021 - 06:07 PM, said:

... Did you unironically just say the spider is as strong as assaults?

Strong as in hard to hit and very annoying yes, not damage per second like the others but still crazy powerful on some variants.. The main light issues are their way too tiny sizes and the speed the MWO servers cannot keep up with weapon tracking no matter the host rewind which i firmly believe is broken for at least some long distance players..

MechNexus, on 04 July 2021 - 01:35 AM, said:

As a regular "slow light" pilot:

Look at a Panther.

Look at an Awesome.

Look at an Adder.

Look at a Warhawk.

Did you think about the words you were typing before you hit "post"?

My adder carries two heavy large lasers and two heavy mediums.. And has no issues with heat. My kit fox has three AMS and three heavy mediums with no heat issues.. Piranhas carry more dps per tonnage than anything else.. My cougar has two ER PPC.. My second Adder has the same.. My Urbie has a Rac 5 and three small lasers

My Kitana Kat has two ppc Awesome has three..

My words were accurate.

Edited by MechaGnome, 04 July 2021 - 06:24 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

And still, after 32 pages, we have the irony. How many threads are there about "OMG they had 5 assault mechs to our 1, it was so unfair" ? Quite a few at last count.

And how many threads are there about "OMG they had 5 light mechs to our 1, it was so unfair" ?

Counting this one... one.

[MisterSomaru]

ScrapIron Prime, on 04 July 2021 - 06:30 PM, said:

And still, after 32 pages, we have the irony. How many threads are there about "OMG they had 5 assault mechs to our 1, it was so unfair" ? Quite a few at last count.

And how many threads are there about "OMG they had 5 light mechs to our 1, it was so unfair" ?

Counting this one... one.

Exactly. It's almost as if what sets mech tonnages apart is... gasp! The player?

[Vxheous]

Captain Caveman DE, on 04 July 2021 - 07:53 AM, said:

yeah, light instill the fear in everybody with a bazillion weapons, then dying to a well placed wet towel slap.
if the PIR is so OP, then why isn't QP full of them, but full of assaults & lurmers?

Vladokapuh, on 04 July 2021 - 07:57 AM, said:

Because lights are OP only when other people play them, when they try, the lights suddenly stop being OP.
Peculiar isnt it?

It's cause any player that understands how to fight lights immediately slaps their damage at a lights legs, and one good burn (or shot) legs a piranha or opens up their legs orange/red, so the piranha tuck tail and run.

[SafeScanner]

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

Strong as in hard to hit and very annoying yes, not damage per second like the others but still crazy powerful on some

Umm annoying yes....maybe.....but hard to hit no. This thing is (close to?)the size of a panther light which is 90 is kmh and in my experience horrible

Also don't be forgetting clan mechanics special fitting quirks they weigh less and hit harder but are less adjustable

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

Fleas come close.

This right here is why you think lights are so strong, even someone who is a mediocre player can play in T5 and absolutely wreck matches and something like a stealth Flea is ez mode. This isn't because they're OP but simply because in T5 where you have people who either are low skill or due to some factor outside of their control simply don't have the ability to play that well are going to find it much harder to kill a mech that's defence is movement.

Quote

Strong as in hard to hit and very annoying yes

I don't think anyone uses this metric to judge whether a mech is strong.

Quote

and the speed the MWO servers cannot keep up with weapon tracking no matter the host rewind which i firmly believe is broken for at least some long distance players..

I'm in Western Europe so I've never really experienced how good MWO's rollback code is but its pretty good isn't it?

Quote

My adder carries two heavy large lasers and two heavy mediums.. And has no issues with heat. My kit fox has three AMS and three heavy mediums with no heat issues.. Piranhas carry more dps per tonnage than anything else.. My cougar has two ER PPC.. My second Adder has the same.. My Urbie has a Rac 5 and three small lasers

These aren't as powerful as you imagine, yes an Adder with 2 HLL+2 HML has a big alpha but outside of low tier its kind of bad because of the long burn time forcing you to expose for way too long. Should we balance around something that is only effective within a certain tier bracket?

Quote

My Kitana Kat has two ppc Awesome has three..

An Awesome-8Q tends to run three heavy PPCs.

[MyriadDigits]

Well I have some time to waste so time to dump a couple dozen build codes on somebody's face in the hopes that it'll make them understand why their position is wrong.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

Fleas come close.

Not even remotely.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

My adder carries two heavy large lasers and two heavy mediums.. And has no issues with heat. My kit fox has three AMS and three heavy mediums with no heat issues..

https://mech.nav-alp...#4d7f733f_ADR-A

https://mech.nav-alp...#2060f317_KFX-C

https://mech.nav-alp...#8b7ec337_DWF-B

https://mech.nav-alp...#b8d9a573_SNV-1

My Dire Wolf has 2LPL 6ERML 2GR. The Supernova has 2LPL 6MPL. Bigger alphas, more DPS, more range, and using lasers with shorter burn times.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

Piranhas carry more dps per tonnage than anything else..

https://mech.nav-alp...#b9b1e886_PIR-1

https://mech.nav-alp...#251e9d77_PIR-1

https://mech.nav-alp...a1460_DWF-PRIME

While not technically incorrect, as the PIR does in fact have loads of DPS for a 20 ton mech, it also only has a max range of 300m. The 8AC2 DWF however, pulls greater DPS and delivers that DPS in 16 point damage salvos at 1000m. "But it has heat!" you might be thinking, well, that's what coolshots are for.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

My Urbie has a Rac 5 and three small lasers

https://mech.nav-alp...c9ae609_UM-R60L

https://mech.nav-alp...ea367bfb_BSW-X2

https://mech.nav-alp...24b04e4d_WHM-BW

https://mech.nav-alp...df94ea99_ANH-2A

My Bushwhacker has 2 RAC5. My Warhammer has 3RAC5. My ANH has 4RAC5, and were I willing to forsake sanity, speed, and cooling I could even cram 5RAC5 in there. Surely I needn't explain further.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

My cougar has two ER PPC.. My second Adder has the same.. My Kitana Kat has two ppc Awesome has three..

https://mech.nav-alp...64a6d_ADR-PRIME

https://mech.nav-alp...#11c435fc_COU-H

https://mech.nav-alp...fc52b64c_PNT-KK

https://mech.nav-alp...74c45408_AWS-8Q

https://mech.nav-alp...26a8c388_AWS-8Q

https://mech.nav-alp...93359_WHK-PRIME

https://mech.nav-alp...1f818726_DWF-UV

The Awesome has 3 Heavy PPCs, or 4 standard PPCs. Warhawk has 4ERPPC. DWF has 6ERPPC and when fully skilled alphas (2+2+2) without taking overheat damage.

MechaGnome, on 04 July 2021 - 06:10 PM, said:

My words were accurate.

Not really, no.

But go ahead and keep telling yourself light mechs have just as much firepower as assaults.

[SafeScanner]

If the pirana was to be nerfed my only concession would be sensor range to either 300-400 to enforce its role and make it reliant on your own team for spots and Intel sharing, what would be it counters to this would using your own eyes and peeking hoping no-one notices the radar blind mech

Hell face it when a pir-1 gets spotted war drums start beating with furious chanting "KILL THE FIIIIISSSHHHH"

[Leone]

Uhhhh, have you run a stealth mech afore? That's nothing new to a skilled light pilot.

~Leone.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

SafeScanner, on 05 July 2021 - 12:56 AM, said:

If the pirana was to be nerfed my only concession would be sensor range to either 300-400 to enforce its role and make it reliant on your own team for spots and Intel sharing, what would be it counters to this would using your own eyes and peeking hoping no-one notices the radar blind mech

Hell face it when a pir-1 gets spotted war drums start beating with furious chanting "KILL THE FIIIIISSSHHHH"

Yes, raising the skill floor and punishing less skilled pilots is the solution to good pilots dunking on people in the Piranha.

[MechNexus]

Mechagnome's bad retort is even funnier when you remember I posted some example builds myself not two posts after the one they replied to.

[Dogstar]

MyriadDigits, on 05 July 2021 - 12:09 AM, said:

Well I have some time to waste so time to dump a couple dozen build codes on somebody's face in the hopes that it'll make them understand why their position is wrong.

Kudos to you for going to the effort of making all those mech builds. Well done.

[MechNexus]

Some extra explanation from me regarding my two builds from earlier:

https://mech.nav-alp...1ad01ef8_PNT-9R (modified to dump 2JJ for an extra DHS for max DPS)
https://mech.nav-alp...f16410bc_AWS-8Q (modified to omit the 3 backup medium lasers so we can judge it off the HPPCs alone)

Note that the awesome deals a little over double the damage per PPC volley, has better average DPS, better max DPS, and better heat dissipation than the panther.

The firepower advantage is quite clear in this instance - A heavier mech will always be able to take the bigger guns, and pack more heatsinks to better sustain itself in a fight.

But let's now compare it to a different light mech. I looked at grimmechs quickly to find the light mech that was 1) Considered B, A or S tier by it's contributors and 2) Had comparable DPS or alpha to the Awesome. I found this:

https://mech.nav-alp...c14456db_FLE-17

This had the highest DPS of all i'd found, and there were a few that did come close. However, this has significant drawbacks a more experienced light pilot would probably better qualified to talk about (holding laser burns, exposure time and range being the ones I can talk about), but thankfully there's a much simpler counterpoint.

https://mech.nav-alp.../#6099124e_CP-S

Same sort of range, higher alpha, far higher DPS. And it's far from the only assault capable of running this.

Assaults will always have the raw firepower advantage. There is no evidence to support any claims toward the opposite.

Edited by MechNexus, 05 July 2021 - 04:40 AM.

[SafeScanner]

Leone, on 05 July 2021 - 12:57 AM, said:

Uhhhh, have you run a stealth mech afore? That's nothing new to a skilled light pilot.

~Leone.

true but no stealth protection comes with it you might not see them but they see you

Monke-, on 05 July 2021 - 01:01 AM, said:

Yes, raising the skill floor and punishing less skilled pilots is the solution to good pilots dunking on people in the Piranha.

i don't think it raises the skill floor too high, gaining basic understanding of game machanics can help greatly the sensor skill tree and help with increasing the sonor range because you need radar deprivation
after that i think we would be back here demanding the lights get smacked with the nerf bat

if the radar reducion helped refine pir player to be better killing machines ill be all for it

[Nerokar]

Yesterday I was biting assault asses in my PIR-CI. But a VPR jumped on me. It hunted me down in no time. I had no chance.

How can it be that it overpowered the hero of the most overpowered chassis of the most overpowered class?!

Nerf VIPER now! It is to powerful...

[SafeScanner]

MechNexus, on 05 July 2021 - 04:39 AM, said:

But let's now compare it to a different light mech. I looked at grimmechs quickly to find the light mech that was 1) Considered B, A or S tier by it's contributors and 2) Had comparable DPS or alpha to the Awesome. I found this:

https://mech.nav-alp...c14456db_FLE-17

This had the highest DPS of all i'd found, and there were a few that did come close. However, this has significant drawbacks a more experienced light pilot would probably better qualified to talk about (holding laser burns, exposure time and range being the ones I can talk about)

Depending how you want to use it for backstabbing shoot 2-3 and then scoot

if your supporting you can try to chain or rotate your fire to control you heat gain and keep something of a constant barrage

if i were you use that mech i would swap of small pulses for normal small lasers at the cost of 0.25 damage but gain better range and less heat gain
alternativly i would go all in swap smalls for mediums and take a coolshot i would gain 5 damage (instead 4) have better range but worse heat gen

Nerokar, on 05 July 2021 - 05:13 AM, said:

Yesterday I was biting assault asses in my PIR-CI. But a VPR jumped on me. It hunted me down in no time. I had no chance.

How can it be that it overpowered the hero of the most overpowered chassis of the most overpowered class?!

Nerf VIPER now! It is to powerful...

unacceptable sound like you need to start a viper thread

Edited by SafeScanner, 05 July 2021 - 05:28 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Monke-, on 04 July 2021 - 08:27 AM, said:

Not to try and shame you but looking at your stats on Jarls to try gauge what tier you're in and I'd probably guess you were lower tier where even a mediocre light pilot is going to have very good matches, I'm in T1 and if I see a light just run through my team I will see them get punished, they typically don't get away without taking a good bit of damage.

It was done on my alt. which has similar stats but I'm talking about the lights specifically. https://mwomercs.com...ings-on-lights/

[martian]

MechaGnome, on 03 July 2021 - 05:38 PM, said:

Man even light pilots are trying to explain that these are broken but nope.. these are ignored.. Fleas, Locusts, Piranhas and spiders even some slow lights are as powerful as assaults..

Are you really trying to tell us ...

... that the Spider with its pair of medium lasers ....




... is as powerful as the Daishi?



Sorry, but my experience has been different.