71 replies to this topic

[VeeOt Dragon]

haven't played the new Polar yet but i plan to later today (or at least try to). watching the little vid they piosted on it though i thin that is so fundamentally different from the old map that keeping it as a "Classic" option is a good idea. look at the changes to canyon and compare with changes to polar. canyon is still mostly the same map with a bit of improvement.while polar seems to be completely redone. just like classic Frozen city and regular as well as classic and regular Forest Colony. they are all different enough maps to warrant them. anythings better than getting solaris and mining over and over again. i detest those two maps (i would rather play caustic or terra in an all energy build than either of those in any kind of mech)

as for the usual LRM hate you folks can go shove it. yes they are a lock on weapon but you don't complain about S-SRMs another locking weapon. LRM are the most hard countered weapons in the game. if you die to them you messed up or the other team has a good spotter on hand (yes even on Polar). don't like LRM spend some tonnage on AMS, if your team has just one Corsair-7A it essentially negates 40 tubes or more of LRM by itself. think if each mech able to sported a single AMS on your team did.

i'll have to give my Catapult-C4 a try on the new Polar and see how it fairs. might bring out some of my long range PPC or ER-LL builds as well. might even try for some JJ builds as i usually forgo them for more firepower/ ammo or armor.

[Brom96]

Hint - it now resembles Solaris more then any other map So, basically, yeah, the completely different map.

[Verilligo]

Keeping old Polar Highlands is simply not an option. Despite how much you might like it, it is a map that is fundamentally at odds with the type of gameplay that PGI is now attempting to encourage. It is not simply a matter of old Polar being good or bad, it is a matter of old Polar needing to be removed. Specifically in terms of LRM play, underpopulated maps like Polar will be populated with more features such that extended barrages will be made impossible. Everyone is going to have to come to terms with this and accept it.

[Khobai]

Verilligo, on 22 June 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

Keeping old Polar Highlands is simply not an option. Despite how much you might like it, it is a map that is fundamentally at odds with the type of gameplay that PGI is now attempting to encourage. It is not simply a matter of old Polar being good or bad, it is a matter of old Polar needing to be removed. Specifically in terms of LRM play, underpopulated maps like Polar will be populated with more features such that extended barrages will be made impossible. Everyone is going to have to come to terms with this and accept it.

I find the new polar highlands to be more conducive to LRM play than the old one

theres so many elevated positions its very easy to spot and rain down on targets. even if a target is behind cover if youre elevated high enough your missiles often fly over it. all the cover makes it really easy for LRM boats to indirect fire with less chance of being attacked in return.

[1453 R]

Whether or not you're a "delicious lurmer tears" type (seriously, grow up. The weapon is in the game, it's a celebrated part of the setting and the franchise, and it's an important tactical tool in the game's arsenal) or a "Nuuuuu my LRM340 w/27 tons of ammo and an XL130 Cyclops! DX" type (you're a terrible player, you are actively sabotaging your team's chances for success every time you drop in that abomination, and you owe it to your team and yourself to become a better robit pilot), the truth of the matter was that Old Polar was terrible.

The middle of the map was nothing but a flat killing field devoid of any cover - one single hit by an enemy NARC unit and it was game over lights out for you no matter what you did. Maneuvering on that map was a nightmare, given that no matter where you were on it, you were only ever one unfortunate bump of a hill away from being targeted by the entire enemy team all at once.

The edges of Old Polar were better, and it seems like nuPolar is mostly trying to omit the middle Flat Numbing Awfulness in favor of making the entire map more like the edges of Old Polar, with buildings and broken ground and arroyos and all sorts of interesting but low cover that allows you to maneuver smartly and engage abruptly. Jump jets look like they'll be fantastic on this map...so long as you use them judiciously, to surprise enemies, rather than for skylining yourself to an entire enemy firing line. I can't think of a single game on Old Polar, especially ******* Domination - which, let's be real, is the only game mode anyone ever ******* votes for on that godforsaken map - where jump jets were anything other than a "Quick, Agonizing Suicide" button.

The map is better, people. Not worse. And we can't keep fixing maps only to let the old, broken, unfun and very badly designed map still stick around in the friggin' rotation. No more "Classic" maps. At all. Period.

[FinnMcKool]

Verilligo, on 22 June 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

Keeping old Polar Highlands is simply not an option. Despite how much you might like it, it is a map that is fundamentally at odds with the type of gameplay that PGI is now attempting to encourage. It is not simply a matter of old Polar being good or bad, it is a matter of old Polar needing to be removed. Specifically in terms of LRM play, underpopulated maps like Polar will be populated with more features such that extended barrages will be made impossible. Everyone is going to have to come to terms with this and accept it.

If PGI really wants to control how people play the game I truly feel sorry for them
there will always be the unintended consequence

as far as maps go I think more is better
PS
I love the old Canyon, funny how people say "it had so many flaws" and then say cant bring it back because "its fundamentally the same"

[Meep Meep]

Khobai, on 22 June 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

I find the new polar highlands to be more conducive to LRM play than the old one

theres so many elevated positions its very easy to spot and rain down on targets. even if a target is behind cover if youre elevated high enough your missiles often fly over it. all the cover makes it really easy for LRM boats to indirect fire with less chance of being attacked in return.

Ok got it a couple of time so far and completely agree. If your lrm spammer is mobile with jj then you can quickly find plentiful spots to rain down on entrenched enemy due to the way lrm arc normally then dive almost directly down when the target is below you. Assaults or slow mechs are gonna hate this map since its just as big but forces a long winding path if you stick to the trenches. Lights and fast mediums are going to have a field day.

[Alstren]

No old Polar was horrible map... That said as much as I dislike lrms they are a part of the game that would in the end suck to see extinct so Im hoping we get some map revamps that are easier for the lrm boats but please for the love of god nothing like the old polar again.

[MyriadDigits]

VeeOt Dragon, on 22 June 2021 - 01:22 PM, said:

yes they are a lock on weapon but you don't complain about S-SRMs another locking weapon.

People don't really complain about LRMs for being a lock-on weapon (though there absolutely are people who hate lock on weapons), they hate LRMs because they are a zero exposure weapon. Even ATMs typically need to expose if they want their missiles to hit something, but LRMs simply don't. LRMs being a zero exposure weapons means that most of the time you're getting hit by them its by some melon behind a hill completely immune to retaliation from literally every other weapon in the roster, which is incredibly frustrating. Sure, you can say "just shoot the spotter" but since every other weapon in the game needs to expose to deal damage chances are the "spotter" is whatever mechs they're already engaged with. The behavior of such LRM pilots can also be infuriating to deal with as allies because they just want their team to waste their armor getting locks so the LRM boat can feel good about getting ridiculous damage farm without taking literally any risk at all.

[MechNexus]

MyriadDigits, on 22 June 2021 - 03:15 PM, said:

People don't really complain about LRMs for being a lock-on weapon (though there absolutely are people who hate lock on weapons), they hate LRMs because they are a zero exposure weapon. Even ATMs typically need to expose if they want their missiles to hit something, but LRMs simply don't. LRMs being a zero exposure weapons means that most of the time you're getting hit by them its by some melon behind a hill completely immune to retaliation from literally every other weapon in the roster, which is incredibly frustrating. Sure, you can say "just shoot the spotter" but since every other weapon in the game needs to expose to deal damage chances are the "spotter" is whatever mechs they're already engaged with. The behavior of such LRM pilots can also be infuriating to deal with as allies because they just want their team to waste their armor getting locks so the LRM boat can feel good about getting ridiculous damage farm without taking literally any risk at all.

By Centrella, this one gets it. This is the main reason why top end players dislike LRMs. (streaks, before you bring them up - were disliked because they would insta-delete lights.) Little to do with them being lockon, all with them being all too safe for the output you get, and their mechanics encourage you to hide while your team overexposes to get the locks LRM boats always demand at the start of the match.

On the note of nuPolar - While I haven't played on it yet due to other obligations, even if LRMs can arc over the new cover it's still an improvement over old polar, as it's more ways to break line of sight, and gives the brawlers a safe way to get into the action rather than going on a bloody nature hike with the weather forecasting LRMs. Plus, the presence of proper cover rather than just hills to peek over makes mechs with lower slung mounts more viable.

[FinnMcKool]

MechNexus, on 22 June 2021 - 03:38 PM, said:

By Centrella, this one gets it. This is the main reason why top end players dislike LRMs. (streaks, before you bring them up - were disliked because they would insta-delete lights.) Little to do with them being lockon, all with them being all too safe for the output you get, and their mechanics encourage you to hide while your team overexposes to get the locks LRM boats always demand at the start of the match.

On the note of nuPolar - While I haven't played on it yet due to other obligations, even if LRMs can arc over the new cover it's still an improvement over old polar, as it's more ways to break line of sight, and gives the brawlers a safe way to get into the action rather than going on a bloody nature hike with the weather forecasting LRMs. Plus, the presence of proper cover rather than just hills to peek over makes mechs with lower slung mounts more viable.

I like how you say "top end Players"

so when some one may disagree with you they obviously cant have a valid opinion

old linguistic trick from the 30s 40s Germany

[PocketYoda]

Yeah.... No.

Bring it back after they remove lock ons from people that aren't targeting a mech..

Edited by MechaGnome, 22 June 2021 - 05:42 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

after playing the new Polar a few times with a half dozen different mechs (played Skirmish, Domination, and conquest). i have to say i love it. lots of elevation and spots for good positioning that isn't nascar. i still stand by keeping old Polar as a "Classic" map. the new polar feels like a totally new map. (i love the changes to Canyon as well but it is still the same map in feel)

i do like that that they didn't make it into another anti-LRM map. honestly i think it is one of the most well balanced maps build wise. i see great potential for all kinds of play styles in it. if we could just break the nascar habit it would be even better. people still rotate but i find they tried some different tactics as well (still lost a conquest do to lack of capping on my team (it ended 8-12 but we had only one cap point for some time). its a fun map. we need more like it with other themes, perhaps a hot map themed one or one where there is some water.

[VeeOt Dragon]

(again if you don't like LRM bring an AMS, a few other teammates with them and LRM are negated.)

other than that not going to feed the anti-LRM trolls as it isn't the subject of this thread.

[FinnMcKool]

I think the new map is fun totally different than the old only thing familiar is the snow.

[Verilligo]

Khobai, on 22 June 2021 - 02:14 PM, said:

I find the new polar highlands to be more conducive to LRM play than the old one

theres so many elevated positions its very easy to spot and rain down on targets. even if a target is behind cover if youre elevated high enough your missiles often fly over it. all the cover makes it really easy for LRM boats to indirect fire with less chance of being attacked in return.

Yes, I believe that was the general idea. You're exchanging extended barrages for more frequent barrages. Particularly if you can reposition intelligently or use JJs to gain access to the map's verticality, you can pull the trigger more often. At the same time, there are more routes for someone to circle around and stab a missile boat in the back, so everyone gets something out of the map revision.

[Fragga ONE]

Wow the tantrums. I support the idea of keeping it as a classic map and increasing choice of four maps to six? I liked old. It wasnt lurmer heaven as much as people say, there was so much sniping too It was open and fun imo and considering the "careful" play so many used as an approach the brawers snuck up on all the others that were hiding from LRMs. and franky if there are supposedly brawler-esque maps such as Solaris and Mining and perhaps even HPG fx then then should be open maps to keep the flavour of RNG in our deployments. The new polar is kinda meh imho... trenches buildings and blah blah not that I dont enjoy any map for the fact we still get to stompy death bot each other

[illudium Q 36]

I've always hated the Polar Map. I've always saved up my "votes" to vote against the Polar Map (although I did vote for Polar once by mistake, which is something I still deeply lament to this very day). In fact I hate the Polar Map soooo much that I see no reason not to extend my feud to include the new Polar map, regardless of any and all changes made.

Should have changed the map name when you made the changes. I probably wouldn't have noticed for months ......

[Catra Lanis]

If the old map was so bad then no one will vote for it anyway so what are the naysayers afraid of?

[Scout Derek]

Vellron2005, on 21 June 2021 - 10:26 AM, said:

PGI, please don't simply remove the Old Polar Highlands.. Instead, do what you did for Frozen City and Forest Colony.

Leave it as a "Classic" map.

Polar is the only map in the game that is really great for LRMs. There are plenty of maps that aren't, and where lurmers just know they are not gonna do very well - just like with close-range brawlers, but ONLY on Polar.

Do you think this is fair to lurmers?

Please, let us LRM aficionados have out playground.

I also suggest that instead of remaking good maps, you make NEW maps..

No.