164 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

HPG is next and the map is essentially the poster boy for NASCAR.

From what I've seen (limited) the hardcore rotation mindset of players will need to change and the map will be similar but different. Players will need to adapt and learn once again.


I wonder if that'll equate to "xxxx gameplay is dead" or maybe it's "COVID's" fault. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[1453 R]

the only real issue I have with HPG is the god ******* awful lighting on that map. Any time I drop in HPG it's instantly time to flip on NV and just leave it on, because otherwise most of that map is absolutely impossible to see any-damned-thing in. I know that's true to life for a low-atmosphere world where shadows would be as sharp and Stygian as a demonic abyss, but hory sheet it makes for a frustrating game experience.

The map itself is mostly fine to me - it suffers from predictability, yes, but that's Puglandia's fault as much as the map's. I absolutely hate the stupid, pointless, mindless "CHARGE THE MIDDLE AND DIE" mentality literally freaking everyone hews to in Puglandia, and HPG being one of the greatest remaining maps for a Giant Central Cover Dingus means the urge to charge the middle and die is absolutely overwhelming for the average lemming. Almost nothing can convince them to hold different ground, and if you can't convince the whole-*** team to back a nonstandard play, you have to follow them to the middle. I.e. charge to the middle and die. It's horrible and I hate it and I wish I could slap everybody who insists on a Banzai charge to the middle of every goddamn map absolutely senseless and demand they not do the stupid thing...but I don't have that superpower.

I don't think HPG needs drastic fixes. I don't even think it needs a nuCanyon-level rejigger. It just needs better lighting and maybe less emphasis on the stupid ***ing Giant Central Cover Dingus - somehow - and it'd be fine. If I could see, and if I didn't know for an absolute fact that my team was going to race at top speed for the top of the station and then lose four 'Mechs within the first two minutes of every single goddamned fight, HPG'd be great.

[Bud Crue]

justcallme A S H, on 29 June 2021 - 01:56 PM, said:

HPG is next and the map is essentially the poster boy for NASCAR.

From what I've seen (limited) the hardcore rotation mindset of players will need to change and the map will be similar but different. Players will need to adapt and learn once again.


I wonder if that'll equate to "xxxx gameplay is dead" or maybe it's "COVID's" fault. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

Anti Nascar features are fine, as long as I can still take top, trade in the pillars, and then jump over a bunch of enemy assaults stalled on the ramp because they are all staring at the scary arty strike at the edge. If he messes with the ability to do that, well then, I shall post nonsense about Terra Therma being bad for brawling and will be forced to claim that any and all future losses in population are due exclusively to this map's changes; also: something, something, Covid, Cauldron has done nothing, etc. or thereabouts.

[Bud Crue]

1453 R, on 29 June 2021 - 02:05 PM, said:

the only real issue I have with HPG is the god ******* awful lighting on that map. Any time I drop in HPG it's instantly time to flip on NV and just leave it on, because otherwise most of that map is absolutely impossible to see any-damned-thing in. I know that's true to life for a low-atmosphere world where shadows would be as sharp and Stygian as a demonic abyss, but hory sheet it makes for a frustrating game experience.

The map itself is mostly fine to me - it suffers from predictability, yes, but that's Puglandia's fault as much as the map's. I absolutely hate the stupid, pointless, mindless "CHARGE THE MIDDLE AND DIE" mentality literally freaking everyone hews to in Puglandia, and HPG being one of the greatest remaining maps for a Giant Central Cover Dingus means the urge to charge the middle and die is absolutely overwhelming for the average lemming. Almost nothing can convince them to hold different ground, and if you can't convince the whole-*** team to back a nonstandard play, you have to follow them to the middle. I.e. charge to the middle and die. It's horrible and I hate it and I wish I could slap everybody who insists on a Banzai charge to the middle of every goddamn map absolutely senseless and demand they not do the stupid thing...but I don't have that superpower.

I don't think HPG needs drastic fixes. I don't even think it needs a nuCanyon-level rejigger. It just needs better lighting and maybe less emphasis on the stupid ***ing Giant Central Cover Dingus - somehow - and it'd be fine. If I could see, and if I didn't know for an absolute fact that my team was going to race at top speed for the top of the station and then lose four 'Mechs within the first two minutes of every single goddamned fight, HPG'd be great.

As to the visibility, I'm already drinking so the term is escaping me but its brightness, or gamma, or something that if you play around with the setting there is a sweet spot where the lighting on HPG and old Bog night were ok while Frozen and other white maps were not blinding. I know I got the setting I have from ASH or some other comp level player who recommended them some years ago, but I don't recall what the value is. Gimmie a sec and I will let you know... Brightness .51 and Gamma .7 (unless I got it backwards).

Edited by Bud Crue, 29 June 2021 - 02:16 PM.

[1453 R]

I shall give that a shot when I'm off work, see if it clears anything up. Tried dialing brightness up before, but...well. The whole thing about 'White Maps' and such - I had a choice of flipping on NV on HPG and other dark maps or flipping thermals on for Polar, Hibernal, and the like. One is just a squee bit more common than the other. Thanks for the pointer.

[Khobai]

HPG is actually a pretty good map as far as playstyle balance goes. I dont think they need to change it. Its one of the maps they should leave well enough alone.

[Scout Derek]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 03:30 PM, said:

HPG is actually a pretty good map as far as playstyle balance goes. I dont think they need to change it. Its one of the maps they should leave well enough alone.

Yes.... it is just "fine".... ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[pbiggz]

Scout Derek, on 29 June 2021 - 03:50 PM, said:

Yes.... it is just "fine".... ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Some people just need to be contrarian. I welcome changes to the maps. They have a full time level designer. They best use him.

Edited by pbiggz, 29 June 2021 - 04:00 PM.

[Khobai]

Scout Derek, on 29 June 2021 - 03:50 PM, said:

Yes.... it is just "fine".... ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I dont see nascaring as being a huge problem on HPG

because HPG gets a good balance of all the different playstyles as is. its not only nascaring.

if they start adding anti-nascar measures to HPG theyre gonna screw up brawling on that map.

the map is too small to use the same techniques they used on polar highlands

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2021 - 04:09 PM.

[MisterSomaru]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:03 PM, said:

I dont see nascaring as a problem on HPG

because HPG gets a good balance of different playstyles

It's a perfectly Balanced nascar.

Edit: I'm glad quotes don't get changed by the quoted's edits.

Edited by MisterSomaru, 29 June 2021 - 04:09 PM.

[East Indy]

Changing HPG in a significant way would be a mistake. People complain, and yet it's almost always voted up. Be careful not to confuse informed preference with popularity. Happy players matter. Tread lightly on this one.

[Khobai]

MisterSomaru, on 29 June 2021 - 04:05 PM, said:

It's a perfectly Balanced nascar.

Edit: I'm glad quotes don't get changed by the quoted's edits.

because people fight over the top in HPG too its not just nascaring. theres a definite advantage to controlling the top at certain junctures of the fight.

the only aspect of HPG i think they should change is the basement area. that whole area is kindve pointless and they could do a couple things to make it more interesting.

Edited by Khobai, 29 June 2021 - 04:15 PM.

[MisterSomaru]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:03 PM, said:

I dont see nascaring as being a huge problem on HPG

because HPG gets a good balance of all the different playstyles as is. its not only nascaring.

if they start adding anti-nascar measures to HPG theyre gonna screw up brawling on that map.

the map is too small to use the same techniques they used on polar highlands

No it's not. just got to get rid of the big dish in the center for people to stop rotating. Big centerpieces while looking nice, do not contribute to good gameplay.
Just gonna keep quoting your edits, too.

[Bud Crue]

Changing the make, to make Nascar more requiring of concious effort, like new Canyon does, would be fine. I just don't want them messing with the top of the platform.

[Khobai]

MisterSomaru, on 29 June 2021 - 04:14 PM, said:

No it's not. just got to get rid of the big dish in the center for people to stop rotating. Big centerpieces while looking nice, do not contribute to good gameplay.
Just gonna keep quoting your edits, too.

im not sure why you think that would get rid of nascaring. people stlll nascar on the new polar highlands.

[MisterSomaru]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:20 PM, said:

im not sure why you think that would get rid of nascaring. people stlll nascar on the new polar highlands.

yes, but it's more punishing to do so.

[Khobai]

MisterSomaru, on 29 June 2021 - 04:21 PM, said:

yes, but it's more punishing to do so.

its not really more punishing though. theres tons of cover on the new polar highlands. people just nascar along the outside of the raised hills near the center. it takes longer to complete laps but its still the same nascar behavior as always.

[MisterSomaru]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:24 PM, said:

its not really more punishing though. theres tons of cover on the new polar highlands. people just nascar along the outside of the raised hills near the center. it takes longer to complete laps but its still the same nascar behavior as always.

except the people taking the tops of the hills have free reign to farm the people nascaring. I've seen it, it doesn't end well for the nascar boiz very often.

[MechNexus]

Khobai, on 29 June 2021 - 04:24 PM, said:

its not really more punishing though. theres tons of cover on the new polar highlands. people just nascar along the outside of the raised hills near the center. it takes longer to complete laps but its still the same nascar behavior as always.

Control of the raised hills is crucial. You don't want to give those up - NASCAR-ing on the low ground gives up those positions, giving the long range traders a vantage point completely uncontested.

[MisterSomaru]

MechNexus, on 29 June 2021 - 04:26 PM, said:

Control of the raised hills is crucial. You don't want to give those up - NASCAR-ing on the low ground gives up those positions, giving the long range traders a vantage point completely uncontested.

this. Power Positions that can be held will reduce nascar.