48 replies to this topic

[PocketYoda]

The problem is a 100tonner isn't suppose to be 5 times the mass.. a 20 ton mech is suppose to be 7-8 meters tall. a 100 mech is 12-14 meters tall.

PGI in its infinite wisdom messed up the sizes a great deal.. This person is up to the mechs knee...

Old post but still relevant.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__4307081

Edited by MechaGnome, 30 June 2021 - 05:27 AM.

[pbiggz]

MechaGnome, on 30 June 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

The problem is a 100tonner isn't suppose to be 5 times the mass.. a 20 ton mech is suppose to be 7-8 meters tall. a 100 mech is 12-14 meters tall

Mass is not the same as height.

Mass is a measure of how much stuff there is.

[Khobai]

volume gets filled out 3 dimensionally theres height, width, AND depth

so even though a 100 ton assault is 5 times the mass of a 20 ton light it may not necessarily be 5 times the height

probably more like 2 times the height because its filling out in both width and depth as well as height


say you have a light mech thats 8m tall, 4m wide, and 4m deep

an equally proportioned assault would be 14m tall, 7m wide, and 7m deep

the assault is less than twice the height of the light but still ~5 times the volume


thats how messed up the scaling is in MWO. the biggest assault in the game (king crab?) should only be the size of a heavy mech if it was properly scaled.

Edited by Khobai, 30 June 2021 - 08:48 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

MechaGnome, on 30 June 2021 - 05:18 AM, said:

The problem is a 100tonner isn't suppose to be 5 times the mass.. a 20 ton mech is suppose to be 7-8 meters tall. a 100 mech is 12-14 meters tall.

PGI in its infinite wisdom messed up the sizes a great deal.. This person is up to the mechs knee...

Old post but still relevant.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__4307081

Battletechnology Magazine, issue 1. Non canon, but beloved. Mine is still in good shape, despite how often I poured over it back in the day.

[Horseman]

Khobai, on 30 June 2021 - 08:38 AM, said:

volume gets filled out 3 dimensionally theres height, width, AND depth
so even though a 100 ton assault is 5 times the mass of a 20 ton light it may not necessarily be 5 times the height
probably more like 2 times the height because its filling out in both width and depth as well as height

Less, actually. A 100 tonner is only 5x the mass of a 20 ton light, where a 2x increase in dimensions would amount to a 8x increase in volume (assuming constant density). For a 5x increase in volume, the dimensions only need to increase by 1.71x .

Edited by Horseman, 01 July 2021 - 11:33 AM.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Horseman, on 01 July 2021 - 06:28 AM, said:

Less, actually. A 100 tonner is only 5x the mass of a 20 ton light, so a 2x increase in dimensions would amount to a 8x increase in volume (assuming constant density). For a 5x increase in volume, the dimensions only need to increase by 1.71x .

so.. next PGI-mech is a Flea II
1,71x the size, and a tiny 100mech with _everything_ ^^

[Khobai]

at least the flea II could bend down enough to shoot a flea

[ScrapIron Prime]

Khobai, on 01 July 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

at least the flea II could bend down enough to shoot a flea

Wasn’t this just addressed with the new torso pitch and yaw values? My Banshee surprised the heck out of a flea the other day by nuking it off my leg….

[MW Waldorf Statler]

for this , im like it to take modern Weaponssystems in Realtion...or for example , a Humvee with more weght and Armor not bigger as the Less armored Version ...Armor with more weight only millimeters on the Chassie

a Armored Knight with 2mm Armor not bigger as a normal clothed Person
...

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 02 July 2021 - 02:23 AM.

[PocketYoda]

pbiggz, on 30 June 2021 - 05:19 AM, said:

Mass is not the same as height.

Mass is a measure of how much stuff there is.

Yes but you are fitting that mass into the wrong sized mechs to start with.. Only so much mass fits into a thing..

Edited by MechaGnome, 07 July 2021 - 10:25 PM.

[Khobai]

ScrapIron Prime, on 01 July 2021 - 07:51 AM, said:

Wasn’t this just addressed with the new torso pitch and yaw values? My Banshee surprised the heck out of a flea the other day by nuking it off my leg….

the extra 5 degree pitch helps somewhat but hasnt fully solved the problem. a banshee still cannot hit a light mech thats inside 25m

[Thorqemada]

There was already a rescale event in the past and afair they stated that if they would rescale by a higher margin they would run into all sorts of trouble with hitboxes, animation, geometry so a low hanging fruit rescale is probably not possible!

[Storming Angel]

MechaGnome, on 02 July 2021 - 03:44 AM, said:

Yes but you are fitting that mass into the wrong sized mechs to start with.. Only so much mass fits into a thing..

Also mass is meaningless to a thing that doesn't really exist..



There are many sources that show correct mech heights.. this was just one i found.. there are others in the link i gave you.. Its way more canon than any MWO mech..


Mechs are made from completely different substances that don't exist.. Those tanks are as comparable as a mars bar or a bar of soap..

By that logic, then what you said in your first post is pointless as well.

Even more so when no one can actually decide on the actual height for these things.

[PocketYoda]

Storming Angel, on 03 July 2021 - 07:05 AM, said:

By that logic, then what you said in your first post is pointless as well.

Even more so when no one can actually decide on the actual height for these things.

People have decided you just choose to side with oversized MWO versions. Because developers felt bigger was better, not because it was accurate at all.

Edited by MechaGnome, 07 July 2021 - 10:25 PM.

[MechWarrior5782621]

Surface area is the key.

Think of a real-world tank. Or a car, or a plane. The engine and outer structure account for almost all of the mass. The inside of the vehicle is hollow.

In Battletech, nearly all of the weight should come from the armor, structure, and engine. The rest is mainly air.

An Atlas should have roughly twice the surface area of a 50-ton mech.

This isn't based on lore, only on common sense. I understand that this might be contradictory to lore.

But, think of any real-world vehicle, robot, industrial machine, etc. The interior is never solid. There might be a bunch of wires and whatnot, but nothing comparable to the mass of the exterior structure.

[Horseman]

Fainting Goat, on 03 July 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

But, think of any real-world vehicle, robot, industrial machine, etc. The interior is never solid. There might be a bunch of wires and whatnot, but nothing comparable to the mass of the exterior structure.

Which is more or less the point MW Waldorf Statler's illustration makes: tanks with substantial weight differences are still fairly close in terms of size and volume.

[Storming Angel]

Horseman, on 03 July 2021 - 11:29 PM, said:

Which is more or less the point MW Waldorf Statler's illustration makes: tanks with substantial weight differences are still fairly close in terms of size and volume.

Ships arent. Planes are (sort of), helis are. But the main reason is because anything bigger and larger would be a waste of material and resources since we aren't building tanks for exoplanet missions, large scale assaults featuring tech we can only dream of and space battles.

So they will be larger just so that they can survive getting to the bloody place first and also too fit all of those weapon systems in plus extra systems, not too mention fusion engines are going to be very big as well and the more mass thats there the more power is required therefore a bigger chassis is needed.

So in a way the mech scaling makes sense really, when you look at the bigger picture. We don't need 100 tonne tanks with multiple main weapon systems on them, and probs never will unless we get off this planet then we have to build vehicles to suit most planet types or some or a few depending on year, tech level and willingness.

[MechWarrior5782621]

Horseman, on 03 July 2021 - 11:29 PM, said:

Which is more or less the point MW Waldorf Statler's illustration makes: tanks with substantial weight differences are still fairly close in terms of size and volume.

Traditional tanks have a very compact shape. Mechs would have a much higher surface area to volume ratio.

[pbiggz]

Its worth noting that the complete fantasy materials, arbitrary masses, and outrageous size of battletech mechs pretty much precludes any realistic mass calculations. Dense or not, if an abrams tank weighs in at over 60 tons, an atlas would be hundreds of tons.

This of course is useless information, so any metric we use to consistently resize mechs will have to be rooted not in realism, but rather in-game performance. The question we should ask is what size do certain mechs need to be to perform?

[ScrapIron Prime]

The king of physics-breakers in Battletech is the Union class drop ship. This spherical ship (81.5m x 81.5m x 78m) has a mass of only 3600 metric tons. That’s a lot of empty space for 268000 cubic meters and a ship that is described as “cramped”. But I guess 12 mech bays are large…