92 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

pattonesque, on 30 July 2021 - 05:03 PM, said:

if you made the AC/20 burst fire it would be worse than it is now

you make it burst fire, and then you jack up its dps. burst works when you have a 3s cd. then you can just throw damage, its messy damage but theres more of it. an ak47 is not good because its accurate or it concentrates its damage, its good because any monkey can pick it up spray lead and do some serious damage with it.

the fact that its ppfld make it so strong in the right hands that every other aspect has to take nerfs to keep it numerically in line.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 July 2021 - 05:13 PM.

[Castigatus]

LordNothing, on 30 July 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

i think a big problem with the ac20 in particular is that a lot of them are balanced as a ppfld weapon. i think autocannons in general would feel better if they were true burst fire weapons with damage buffs (in the form of dps or increased damage) among others. ultras in particular should be higher damage but longer burst. this would instantly solve the uac10 dominance issue and allow pre-kodiak thermal performance to return. autocannons simply are not supposed to be ppfld weapons.

So you want to make it like the Clan AC20, a weapon almost universely considered to be worse than the IS AC20 due to the burst fire mechanic. As people have said the AC20s strength is in a high damage pinpoint strike, and adding a burst mechanic only dilutes that ability. Jacking up its dps or its firing rate won't do anything to address that basic problem because no matter how high the damage is it's still most likely going to be spread over multiple hit locations unless the person you're shooting at is either asleep or a complete idiot.

PGI acknowledged this with the recent changes to the number of shells clan AC20s fire and they're still generally considered worse than their IS equivalents except for certain specific mechs.

Edited by Castigatus, 31 July 2021 - 01:32 AM.

[Wildstreak]

LordNothing, on 30 July 2021 - 04:58 PM, said:

i think a big problem with the ac20 in particular is that a lot of them are balanced as a ppfld weapon. i think autocannons in general would feel better if they were true burst fire weapons with damage buffs (in the form of dps or increased damage) among others. ultras in particular should be higher damage but longer burst. this would instantly solve the uac10 dominance issue and allow pre-kodiak thermal performance to return. autocannons simply are not supposed to be ppfld weapons.

Ever try the Burst Fire (BF) ACs of MW5?
Slightly higher damage due to also have Spread Cone like LBX but smaller.

[Scout Derek]

Wildstreak, on 31 July 2021 - 05:07 AM, said:

Ever try the Burst Fire (BF) ACs of MW5?
Slightly higher damage due to also have Spread Cone like LBX but smaller.

They're pretty bad in a PVP setting;

More projectiles means more spread. The MW5 AI are also in alot slower mechs, and don't have the armor quirks that MWO mechs do, or the ability or code to figure out how to spread damage or peak/poptart areas like a normal player would.

[Alex Morgaine]

yeah i think the ppfld issue has sailed at this point. now if a mwo2 or similar sequel were made, i'd make base autocannons all burst fire 1 bullet=1 damage, and gauss can be the big ppfld hit with one or miss all weapon. but lots of other changes that would be seens as not competitive friendly, but then it'd also be built from the ground up for assymetric warefare/planetary wars and stuff that mwo cannot support so yeah.

[Wildstreak]

Except some players want their PPFLD ACs and will quote lore saying they exist.

As for Gauss, well some Mechs did not exist when it had no charge.

[pattonesque]

Wildstreak, on 01 August 2021 - 01:18 PM, said:

Except some players want their PPFLD ACs and will quote lore saying they exist.

As for Gauss, well some Mechs did not exist when it had no charge.

lore has ACs being all over the place, some are one big slug, others are a bunch of little ones

[PocketYoda]

My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, on 28 July 2021 - 10:48 PM, said:

Yeah some lights could, but going just off raw damage isn't a good metric.

Its the only metric we have that makes any sense in this game..

[LordNothing]

Scout Derek, on 31 July 2021 - 09:08 AM, said:

They're pretty bad in a PVP setting;

More projectiles means more spread. The MW5 AI are also in alot slower mechs, and don't have the armor quirks that MWO mechs do, or the ability or code to figure out how to spread damage or peak/poptart areas like a normal player would.

i think mw5 does it slightly different than what im proposing here. in that there is xy spread in addition to burst fire, and that is not what im proposing. z spread is a lot less disruptive to aim than xy spread and what's more you have control over it with timing and follow through.

with the ac20 burst fire is better for fighting distant targets, so burst coupled with an extended max range and a dps buff will make this weapon better at skirmishing ranges while not really affecting its brawl performance (how can you miss, regardless of spread, like lb20 is fine here). so rather than mechs with ac20s sitting in holes waiting for the trading to enter brawl range, they are on the line fighting.

the uac10 is another good example of where burst size could have gone up instead of giving it absurd heat.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 August 2021 - 12:32 PM.

[Dogstar]

LordNothing, on 02 August 2021 - 12:32 PM, said:

so rather than mechs with ac20s sitting in holes waiting for the trading to enter brawl range, they are on the line fighting.

For me, when running an AC20, it's more a problem of conserving ammo for maximum carnage - pot shots at long range are much more harder to hit with and do significantly less damage. Much better to save the ammo and do the full 20

Edited by Dogstar, 03 August 2021 - 12:55 AM.

[Scout Derek]

LordNothing, on 02 August 2021 - 12:32 PM, said:

the uac10 is another good example of where burst size could have gone up instead of giving it absurd heat.

And in turn making it more difficult to get proper damage off against a leading target, or a target that twists while the UAC projectiles are being fired at said target. Regardless of how you put it, more projectiles is not a great balancing option, it just isn't a solid idea. I'd prefer heat than more projectiles added.

[pattonesque]

^^^

more burst size basically turns it from a UAC/10 to like, I dunno, chainfire UAC/1s

[Ghostrider0067]

Still seems fine by me. I've just come back to playing after an absence and it still thumps as intended when used as it should be: close range. When used in that manner, the shot travel time doesn't matter all that much. If you're having issues with it and find the round's speed too slow, perhaps you need to take a look at your skill tree, invest in a better targeting computer, or perhaps both.

Your shot placement may vary.