34 replies to this topic

[A Saint]

Good day.
I just ended that.match. I killed not enough meches? Did a little amount of damage? Why the arrow is cherry red? What changed in 2 weeks that i wasnt here? Its not the first (or second) match whith that. What is going on?

[Black Caiman]

Without the numbers on all the other players its hard to get the full picture. Most likely this was a match with a lot of high MS numbers, and yours just fell outside of the top 12 or so for this given match. Regardless of your performance if enough other players in the match perform better you could still get a down arrow.

[FinnMcKool]

in my humble opinion the skill / Tier LVL is like the ready button

doesn't do anything,
but make you feel
like you did something

[Half Ear]

That team damage did not help, and was likely the straw that broke that camel's back. You are being rated against the other 23 players.

Pure damage itself would have accounted for 222-238 MS pts (approx 42-45% of damage) before the team damage was calculated in. And that down arrow could be as little as 1 PSR point. I believe kills themselves are worth 5pts, KMDD 2pts, Solo 12pts, lose 14pts.. and dying -3pts. Still looking for the thread where someone had calculated the new MS breakdown.

[Gagis]

It was probably a really tight match with a large number of players racking up high scores you just fell below the line where you lose something like 0.00000001 points of skill rating instead of gaining some similarly insignificant amount. The arrow does not tell you if you gain or lose 1 point or 100 points and the points are allocated so that for every point someone gains, someone else loses one so its all relative.

Edited by Gagis, 23 July 2021 - 08:57 AM.

[A Saint]

Thx, for answers, guys. Now its more clear to me. Ill try to collect more data about that weirdness to full understanding.

[Hunka Junk]

Match score is a better indicator.

[A Saint]

Well, i did it. 1 day of trying and here you are, skill rating cange without correlation with match score!

I'm 7-th in machscore. And arrow? As red as beetroot!



P. S. My bad, guys, did two screenshots, but lost one, with arrow. Ill try to get another one, next time.
P. P. S. Did no teamdamage this match.

Edited by A Saint, 24 July 2021 - 04:06 AM.

[Leone]

Probably suicided? Opfor had only 11 kills.

Edit: also, tied for ninth in raw matchscore, with some close ones on the winning team. They prolly got the green as winner's bonus.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 24 July 2021 - 06:12 AM.

[caseysrevenge]

Youre not he only one who noticed it , this is going on a long time.Matches where you are clearly one of the better player you get a red arrow.Matches where you have been bad playing you get a green arrow.
Not playing MWO anymore so much because of this .
Like MW5 better than the mwo trash.

[Leone]

Umm, no. That's not what happens. What happens is you underperform twelve other folk. The winning team gets an edge in who gets psr raisings.

~Leone.

[Storming Angel]

Leone, on 24 July 2021 - 07:00 AM, said:

Umm, no. That's not what happens. What happens is you underperform twelve other folk. The winning team gets an edge in who gets psr raisings.

~Leone.

In his team he only underperformed 2 while in the enemy about 5, so seven in total so no he didnt underperform twelve nowhere near.

His draw might of tipped him towards the red, but since there is no visual feedback of anything that shows why he failed to go up, and yes the other team won, but i don't see how he couldn't of gone up despite beating the other 16 players.

Regardless basing ratings heavily on damage is questionable and only really rewards selfish play.

Edited by Storming Angel, 24 July 2021 - 07:16 AM.

[My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ]

caseysrevenge, on 24 July 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

Youre not he only one who noticed it , this is going on a long time.Matches where you are clearly one of the better player you get a red arrow.Matches where you have been bad playing you get a green arrow.
Not playing MWO anymore so much because of this .
Like MW5 better than the mwo trash.

Unless you can provide a series of screenshots of your PS progress and leaderboard at the end of the match proving this, as far as I'm aware no one has actually done that yet, this is just pure conjecture.

[Leone]

Leone, on 24 July 2021 - 06:10 AM, said:

Edit: also, tied for ninth in raw matchscore, with some close ones on the winning team. They prolly got the green as winner's bonus.

~Leone.

[Davegt27]

Storming Angel, on 24 July 2021 - 07:15 AM, said:

In his team he only underperformed 2 while in the enemy about 5, so seven in total so no he didnt underperform twelve nowhere near.

His draw might of tipped him towards the red, but since there is no visual feedback of anything that shows why he failed to go up, and yes the other team won, but i don't see how he couldn't of gone up despite beating the other 16 players.

Regardless basing ratings heavily on damage is questionable and only really rewards selfish play.

its best not to think about it to much

last year about this time the try hards cried and cried until they got PGI to change the PSR system

so this is the system we have

it is what it is

[Dora the Konqueror]

A Saint, on 23 July 2021 - 08:24 AM, said:

Good day.
I just ended that.match. I killed not enough meches? Did a little amount of damage? Why the arrow is cherry red? What changed in 2 weeks that i wasnt here? Its not the first (or second) match whith that. What is going on?

I know a rapper by that nickname.....

[dubstep albatross]

A Saint, on 24 July 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

Well, i did it. 1 day of trying and here you are, skill rating cange without correlation with match score!

I'm 7-th in machscore. And arrow? As red as beetroot!

P. S. My bad, guys, did two screenshots, but lost one, with arrow. Ill try to get another one, next time.
P. P. S. Did no teamdamage this match.

TL;DR I have looked at over a thousand games. PSR outcomes can be disconnected from our in-game-performance expectations.

The PSR outcome (formula) is based off of the average of your team and the average of the match. You had a PSR change of -2.22. Above 2 is a green arrow, below -1 is a red arrow, and between 2 and -1 is a yellow equals. The formula gives a small PSR advantage to someone on the winning team and a small PSR disadvantage to someone on the losing team.

Your team average match score (the only thing that matters to PSR is match score) is 256.83. The match average match score is 271.54. You were a little above both: 16% above your team average and 10% above the match average. The way the formula works, it slightly weights your performance relative to your team a bit more than your performance relative to the match.

The end result of the formula is that, generally, players on either end of the spectrum tend to see larger PSR changes, and most in the central bulk see smaller changes. Keep in mind that mean (average) is susceptible to outliers. One person can get a really high match score (from damage, AMS, both) and put everyone else at a disadvantage. During events there is a lot of match score and damage farming. This happens with multiple players per match and this affect those averages and, in effect, penalize those that do not farm match score. People sandpapering each other with LRMs, RACs, and AC/LBX-2s, for example, can generate high damage values and not necessarily even kill mechs or win games.

I have attached an image of your game below with the PSR calculations. You can see some of what I am talking about there. These data are ordered by PSR descending, with win -1 being defeat.

I have also attached some data from a game I had a while ago. I use OCR to extract data from screenshots and do calculations (plus other visualizations and analysis. I'm a huge nerd. I get more from that than playing MWO itself and often play just to get more data). In that game, the top match score player had 1439 damage in a COR-7A, and with a grip of AMS. You can see what happened to the PSR changes for the other players as a result. These data are ordered the same way (PSR descending), but with victory 0 being defeat.

Bottom line: PSR is about your match score relative to your team, and your match score relative to the match. It's offset a bit in each direction by victory/defeat. Match score is not always the best predictor of performance (by whatever criteria you assign "performance"). Yes, if you do more damage, kill more, and so on, you tend to get more PSR. You also tend to win more if you do those things. If your team wins, by the nature of most wins, you are all generally scoring well relative to the match average. Things like damage farming and AMS can subvert expected outcomes. You could do really well on your team, but your team gives up tons of damage score to the other team.

[PocketYoda]

They should make KMDD help with PSR not kills.

[ThreeStooges]

Pilot score really doesn't matter. you can be second highest damage with 2-3 kills and still go down due to the 11 others you get shafted with in a 3-12 game. Just focus on the only thing that matters. Having fun with your mech. Unless you're one of those types that thinks winning only is fun.

[Half Ear]

On the following, your 299 MS (TimberWolf) on that lost gave you a neg 2 PSR pts. On the winning side, the Blackknight player with a 245 MS received a positive 3 PSR pts. He was the lowest ranking winning player to receive an up arrow.

The Cicada player on the losing side with 535 MS received the max PSR for that particular match, a 16 PSR pt increase (15.8 rounded up), while the next runner up on your team, Direwolf player w/ 395 MS received 5 PSR pts. On the winning side the top 3 received 18pts (hunchback IIC), 15 pts (Banshee) and 14pts (Arctic Wolf).

Link to Jay-Z excel sheet. https://docs.google....#gid=1739121335

And the PSR thread - https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6338581

A Saint, on 24 July 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

Well, i did it. 1 day of trying and here you are, skill rating cange without correlation with match score!

I'm 7-th in machscore. And arrow? As red as beetroot!



P. S. My bad, guys, did two screenshots, but lost one, with arrow. Ill try to get another one, next time.
P. P. S. Did no teamdamage this match.

Edited by Half Ear, 25 July 2021 - 03:39 PM.