113 replies to this topic

[VeeOt Dragon]

honestly i think the game needs some advertising to help bring in more new players. something else that i think will help (and i have said this often enough) is if they cut the price on the older mech packs more people will buy them. cut the price down to the cost of the MC only mechs in Real cash with the C-bill ones being a kind of bonus. maybe not all of them but maybe each month or so have a number of those old mech packs on sale for a massive discount. this will bring in some extra cash that they can put into some advertising or other game improvements. some money is better than no money at all. i know i wouldn't pay $60 bucks for a handful of mechs of the same chassis that i can just as easily get most for C-bills. i think that is why the Striker/Warden packs sold so well, they were relatively cheap (still high as far as i'm concerned, got my Striker pack as a reward for a Forum contest sort of thing) and you got 2 mechs each of 2 different chassis.

MWO not only needs an influx of players but an influx of cash that new players can bring. with cash they can work out some of the issues that are hindering new player retention as well as keeping old hands interested. (perhaps some fixes to FP and taking Groups out of Solo Que, the melding of Ques has made the MM almost useless as it doesn't take the group composition into its calculations)

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 02 August 2021 - 08:10 AM.

[Nightbird]

VeeOt Dragon, on 02 August 2021 - 08:09 AM, said:

honestly i think the game needs some advertising to help bring in more new players.

Advertising working on the principle of spending X$ to bring in players that generate Y$ in revenue. Advertising only makes sense if Y>X. It doesn't in MWO since 90% of new players don't last 2 months forget about generating 1$ of revenue.

[VeeOt Dragon]

thats why they need to concentrate on the new player experience (that means fixing the damn MM as far as Soup Que is concerned). its all connected. the learning curve in this game can be harsh. not sure exactly what to do to help things. perhaps giving a few more free mech bays in that early stage so new players can et a few more mechs under their belt. i'm not sure honestly.

[R Valentine]

Saved By The Bell, on 02 August 2021 - 03:32 AM, said:

NOW I prefer old canyon and old polar.

When I think, they are going to crash HPG next...

I know I am almost alone, so dont troll me.

Alfa laser vomits and dont move teams are disgusting too.

I still run into far more teams that mindlessly drone along in a left-handed circle than I find static teams, slugging it out with their alpha strikes. There are some players that you simply cannot break out of their current habits no matter how much you change the game. They'll lumber along, down 6 teammates before the 5 minute mark, bleeding armor and more teammate deaths on the way, still circling their way around the nearest object enemies happen to inhabit. At least high alpha laser vomit forces some of these drones to stop when they get cored out almost immediately from just mindlessly rounding a corner they had no information on. I welcome any change that even puts a dent in nascar. Why is trying something new or different so difficult?

[raidarr]

These numbers are immensely better than I expected to come back and find.

[Novakaine]

Just saying..........

[Wid1046]

Free-to-play players are also healthy for keeping player numbers up, however PGI also isn't really doing a good job at trying to attract and retain them. For example, if a fairly new player sees the meta 8xAC2 Ultraviolet and thinks that it's really cool and wants one. Well, it would set them back $25USD for a single mech that they aren't even certain that they'll be able to get to perform well. So they look to see if they can make an equivalent build using other Omnipods: no. Then see if there is any other mech variant in the game that can do 8xAC2: also no. Then they check how much MC it would cost to purchase and realize that even on sale it would take over a year to save up enough to get it. And then they realize that if they want other CBill mechs, that some of that MC will need to go towards mechbays which would push out when they'd be able to afford the Ultraviolet even further. And then they're likely to consider how long it would take if they also want some of the other meta hero mechs like the Slepnir, Deathstrike, Black Widow, or Scorch. Some of those new players won't continue if some of the coolest and best performing mechs are pay-walled off.

Hero mechs should have CBill equivalents. The CBill equivalents should have the CBill bonus and custom camo pattern removed and be much more expensive than a regular variant, but they should be able to be purchased with CBills. A CBill version of a hero mech costing ten times more than a regular variant would be reasonable and would at least allow free-to-play players to grind for them. The game doesn't just have to not be pay-to-win, it also has to avoid appearing to new players as though it is pay-to-win.

[Bud Crue]

Wid1046, on 02 August 2021 - 10:34 AM, said:

Free-to-play players are also healthy for keeping player numbers up, however PGI also isn't really doing a good job at trying to attract and retain them.

Sorry, you lost me right from the get go. I am no PGI cheerleader, but for the last several years its been non-stop events that cater specifically to ftp players, and for the better part of the last year with monthly mech give-aways its become even more of a ftp paradise. Yes there are some hero's that remain out of reach for a time, but with those same events that I just mentioned plus equally ubiquitous sales, a ftp play can buy that Ultraviolet or any other mech they want in pretty short order. I just bought a Deathstrike (finally) with loot bag MC.

[Valdarion Silarius]

The only thing I wished PGI would do is focus more resources into MW:O vs MW:5 Mercenaries. MW:O has retained my interests way longer than anything MW:5 has done. If they claim that they have such a limited budget for time and resources, then I truly believe that they should have waited to cease full development for MW:O then focused all of their efforts into MW:5 and maybe put a little more effort into the online aspect (possible 12 v 12's and such) to make ways for MW:O 2.

[Nightbird]

Bud Crue, on 02 August 2021 - 10:46 AM, said:

Sorry, you lost me right from the get go. I am no PGI cheerleader, but for the last several years its been non-stop events that cater specifically to ftp players, and for the better part of the last year with monthly mech give-aways its become even more of a ftp paradise.

Giveaways only function to get players to give the game a chance. It doesn't get them to stay. Good matches, created by a good match-maker does that.

[Haipyng]

There is nothing new about the continued down turn. The rebalancing has made long range weapons king and everyone is running them. It was good enough to peak interest combined with the new maps, but didn't address anything people have complained about for years.

• Hit Reg issues.
  
• New user experience.
  
• Balanced Match Maker (Even if the numbers are not there, make it smarter with what it has, consider builds, tonnage, etc)
  
• Reward playing the map type. (People cry if you win by completing the objective, even if your team would otherwise lose). Every game is team (barely) deathmatch.
  
• New maps (really new ones. Fixing the NASCAR pathways on old maps is nice, but entirely new maps would be great.
  
• After fixing rewards for playing the objective, create new objectives. Give lights something. CTF. Conquest used to be a blast, but you need to play two dozen maps as a light with cap accelerators until you can get a single Conquest map. That sucks. The voting system is slight of hand at making it seem like you made a choice. We got a mini game of gambling your multiplier.

Blah. I could go on and on. The game needs changes beyond XML value changes. The fact that people came back to look at it, shows there is interest.


Anyway there is nothing new there, and I am sure we won't see anything to address the same old complaints made ad nauseum for years now. Just enjoy it while you can.

Edited by Haipyng, 02 August 2021 - 11:17 AM.

[Heavy Money]

Retention is a tough issue and everyone seems to have different opinions on it. I'm part of a group of ~8 regulars that play most evenings in some combination. We have newer and older players of various skill levels. I can tell you what keeps us retained, despite MWOs issues:

• Practicing and improving our tactics and team loadouts. We have a mix of skill levels, but overall its a group effort and that's satisfying.
  
• The satisfaction of mastering different mech roles/playstyles. We all run lots of different mechs, including less competitive ones. We play to win, but often want to see if we can win in a novel way.
  
• The amusement of team work. We often theme our group, such as all running the same chassis or exact same build.
  
• Trying to master each map with different playstyles. As much as we all know the problems with MWOs maps, its fun figuring out how best to play each playstyle/role of mech on each map. We're thousands of games in and I can't claim to have mastered everything everywhere. I'm pretty high ranked, but I still feel like I have a long way to go.
  
• The fun of collecting. We like watching our mech roster grow. And its fun to have fancy mechs, even if stuff like (s) variants are horribly overpriced (I would spend more total money if mech packs were half the price.)
  
• Enjoying blasting through events. Frequent events are good. Daily challenges would be great. Higher challenges for experienced players would be really great. Make me really work to earn something that's tough to get. We like the challenge!

You'll note that most of this list relates to group based stuff. And I bet if you could look at the data, you'd find that player retention has a lot to do with that player's participation in a regular group/community. I'd bet that biggest factor in if a new player continues with the game is if they find a regular group to play with.

If you're alone, this game is often too challenging and too unforgiving for a new player. But when you're in a group, you bolster each other and work through the challenge of learning the game. When you get a string of losses because your team mates are potatoes and you are dropping solo, you throw up your hands and log off because you're one person and you can't impact the game all that much. When it happens and you're in a group, you look at each other and say "Hey, we're 1/3rd of this team. That should be enough to swing things. What can we do to win even with a bad team?".

A big part of what drew me, and the rest of my group, to this game is the challenge. There's a long ladder of knowledge and skill to climb. That's a big part of why this game is unique and still has the player base it does after this many years, despite all the issues.

Lots of recent changes to the game feed into the points above. The Cauldron's balance changes have made more weapons and mechs viable, which has given us more to collect and experiment with, and unlocked new strats to try. But note that many of the games most glaring problems don't really bother us, because they don't get in the way of the above stuff. Sure there's bugs, bad maps, bad matchmaking, etc. And if those things improved, we'd be happy. But overall, its our enjoyment of playing with each other and the challenge of growing our skills that attracts us. Imbalanced match where we're at a disadvantage? Let's see what we can still pull off. Imbalanced match where we're at an advantage? Let's see if we can outscore the rest of our team!

Many people complain that groups ruin the game, but I think they're the only thing that really keeps it going. The best low hanging fruit for PGI to pick to improve player retention is to help and incentivize people to group up and form regular play communities. Reward referrals, mentorship, try to funnel people towards community chat servers, etc. It won't fix problems with the game, but its certainly an area that is being neglected right now.

Also, if anyone wants to add me in game and join us for some drops, you're welcome to.

[LordNothing]

Vxheous, on 02 August 2021 - 12:42 AM, said:

We will have to see what the population will be after September before we can actually comment about the downturn, since EVERY SINGLE YEAR, summer is a downturn (circled in red)

cant 'mech, gone fishing.

though i still maintain that if pgi has plans for anything big, now is the time to be doing it, while you still have enough population to buy it.

Edited by LordNothing, 02 August 2021 - 12:27 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

Summer dips are of course real, and it is also real that this is a very old, niche game, and it can be difficult to find ways to reinvigorate games in this phase of its life cycle.

With The Cauldron folks having already shown their competence to PGI, I am hoping they will be trusted with helping to develop (or at least listened to) regarding more significant additions to the game apart from quirks and weapon balancing that could attract/retain players. New grinding objectives (have a numerical 'grind bar' for that offers a 1.5% greater c-bill or GXP generation every 10 levels, with each level taking significantly longer to achieve), other endgame content, or improvements to socializing such as letting people chat while MM searches for a game.

Trouble is, these things would all require an injection of capital into what those with an investment stake likely perceive as a game in which only the bare minimum should be done to milk the last remaining revenues from... Unless the new owners feel differently.

[pattonesque]

Capt Deadpool, on 02 August 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:

Trouble is, these things would all require an injection of capital into what those with an investment stake likely perceive as a game in which only the bare minimum should be done to milk the last remaining revenues from... Unless the new owners feel differently.

you know, it's interesting -- though this game is quite old, it's also reliant on nostalgia for the franchise itself, which is even older. Right now, there are several designs which have not yet been incorporated into MWO which, in all likelihood, would sell quite well. Just off the top of my head:

--Stone Rhino
--Stinger
--Wasp
--Sunder
--Hauptmann
--Chimera
--Hellhound
--Argus
--Phoenix Hawk IIC
--Templar
--Bane
--Turkina
--Longbow

and so on and so forth. The problem is, you have to get the game to a point where people would buy these mechs in a large enough volume to make the investment worthwhile, and that likely requires things like new maps, a revamped faction play, maybe a revamped solaris, etc.

I think the Cauldron changes have been fantastic and can't wait to see what happens with quirks and rescale. Ultimately though it'll take more than that to keep the game going for a good while longer.

[Monkey Lover]

Novakaine, on 02 August 2021 - 09:59 AM, said:

Just saying..........

Only thing i have seen posted that might be able to do and really fix population keeping this game going until mwo2.

[Wildstreak]

Vxheous, on 02 August 2021 - 05:35 AM, said:

Chart comes from Jarls list, which pulls all data from the official mwo monthly leaderboards. Any account that has played more than 10 games shows up, and gets counted as a player.

That's terrible no matter if it is 10 games a season or a month.
10 games is barely playing not a regular player / customer thus really should not be counted.

The Summer / Autumn stuff is chaff ignoring the issue actually shown.
Ignore the Blue and Brown up and down spikes.
Focus on the straight Blue and Brown lines angling down that average out those up and down spikes.

The straight Blue line has gone from about 37,500 to about 12,500, that means now there are about one third of people playing by the low 10 games standard compared to Season 0.
The straight Brown line is almost at 0.
Sure games lose players over time but how much loss is acceptable, that is the core issue that cannot be explained by seasons.

[pattonesque]

Wildstreak, on 02 August 2021 - 01:17 PM, said:

That's terrible no matter if it is 10 games a season or a month.
10 games is barely playing not a regular player / customer thus really should not be counted.

Most games have extremely casual playerbases -- the people who play a thousand games a month, or even a hundred, are a relatively small percentage of the total population

[HammerMaster]

Still summer. I contend though the more downturn is due to streamer/comp scum pushing out the casuals because of the varying degrees of degradation of anything deemed non meta. I like Lore builds and hear it all the time about the kitchen sink. I'd play on silent but its stomp or stupidity and I have been only in for freebies which I don't even need.

[pattonesque]

HammerMaster, on 02 August 2021 - 01:35 PM, said:

Still summer. I contend though the more downturn is due to streamer/comp scum pushing out the casuals because of the varying degrees of degradation of anything deemed non meta. I like Lore builds and hear it all the time about the kitchen sink. I'd play on silent but its stomp or stupidity and I have been only in for freebies which I don't even need.

There's never really been a time where lore builds or kitchen sink builds have been good in this game, but those builds have in theory also improved given that weapons across the board have been improved in viability