113 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

The Basilisk, on 05 August 2021 - 05:51 AM, said:

To get anything going beyond Quickplay you need to be highly trained, adherent to meta game ******** and be quite organized.
And by quite organized I mean you need more than two or three pilots with good medium or above skill level to be more than a snack for the very few but dominant larger groups of so called skilled players.

That's a lot of exaggeration there. You just need to not play to lose. The problem you're having has jack to do with the game design or balancing, you're essentially getting offended that people min-max and play to win.

Whoop-dee-doo. Gamers game the system, news at eleven. THEY ALWAYS DID. THEY WILL ALWAYS DO.

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As long as there isn't some at least comparable to MW5 story telling and background info

Reality: PGI tried to inject some, way back. It flopped.

Quote

And again other players are no content.

In any PVP-centric game, players are the content. Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Monkey Lover, on 05 August 2021 - 10:14 PM, said:

There used to be tons of people on faction servers that are now gone.

Gone because of PGI's braindead missteps.

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Remove mercs, add supply side, chain command, missions,upgrade grades and so on.

There was a measure of upgrades way back. They were stripped.
Chain of command exists - in player-ran units.
Missions = modes (unless you had some very specific meaning that did not translate across plaintext).
Supply mechanics, same as repair & rearm, are something that sounds nice on paper, but in practice is all but guaranteed to end up anti-fun and pushing players away.

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What I hoped for before they gutted it.

FP would have to be designed around those elements from the ground up. Bolting them on post-factum will not achieve any productive result.

Edited by Horseman, 06 August 2021 - 02:46 AM.

[Thorqemada]

pattonesque, on 05 August 2021 - 12:12 PM, said:

could you give a tl;dr here, interested but it's quite a long video

Well, i try to write what i remember and understand of it and mind i am not naitve english maybe i dont get some means that stay hidden from my understanding.

Both guys are Content Creators of the rather low profile kind it appears and for increasing their views seemingly joined Units and finaly founded one themself named CDU (which btw is the short name of german political party also).
Madman already has Battletech knowledge while OKI is pretty new to it but both have startet to play the game quite recently albeit Madman stats he was in the Beta of MWO.
In regard to content creation Madman states he doesnt do Build-Videos bcs its overly harsh criticized by BT/MW Vets while OKI dosnt care much about that and does that type of vids.

They spoke about how they came to be MWO players and OKI thought it ws the online pat of MW5 while Madman simply came back to it after years of absence so much that he self recognizes him as a "noob".
Madman told he was in some Vet Units and found it an very demanding, unforgiving and impatient environment and he felt he would have to practice himself many hours and put much more effort into than the Vet Units were prepared to grant him.
He also mentioned that is was much namecaling when players would not live up to the set and expected standards of that Vet Units.
Terminology was a huge challenge as well bcs a new players or returning from a long absence player would have little clue what that terms meant like "nascar to" or "hold xx".

I think OKI told how he did not know for months that a thing named FP exists and that he had a hard time to find out how to even be able to set himself up to participate in Solaris games as there is no reference what certain stuff means i.e. what the hell is a solaris "Patron"?

The percpetion of issues is different as many new players never get to the point where they complain about some restricted loadout options of some Omni Mech when they already struggle to even get into the game and stop playing after struggling with terms and concepts for a few hours.

And mind these are content creators spending hours in the game and make dedicated schedules to play that speak out of their own experiences and the guys have founded their CDU unit - that btw recruits actively - they are not even the average joe gamer that must struggle tenfold with all what they have experienced they are much advanced.

So i thought that may be an interesting watch and for more detail and context you need really to watch that yourself

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 August 2021 - 03:24 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Bud Crue, on 04 August 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

10 games a month is merely the lower limit to be recognized as a player of the game. How would changing that criteria be something that would "attract" players? What does this criteria have to do with a game being "competitive" or its "competitive standard"? I'm no more or less likely to play (competitively or otherwise) if that minimum is 5 games or 15 games or 64 games.

Except there are 2 problems with that.

1 - This standard is what should define a Regular Customer from a business standpoint. I cannot think of any company that would consider 10 games a month as a standard for a PvP game. The bar is set too low.

2 - This standard is also on the Leaderboards thus is also a standard defining what is considered a Competitive Player, not a Casual. As I showed, you can be a Casual, play just for events and easily play more than 10 games a month without risk to your health. It is also a known fact in PvP games there are Casuals who do not like being lumped into the Competitive Player Pool thus one reason online PvP games tend to have separate queues for them. It is a fact that even a number of Competitive Players do not want to be lumped into the same pool as Casuals for reasons they have provided.

So why?

Why put Casuals and Comps into the same pool?

The tired argument of Player Population doesn't excuse the fact it is a terrible decision. Doesn't excuse the fact that putting them into the same Leaderboard with such a low bar existing is bad.

This was supposed to be a thread about gaining players yet all that has been put up are really bad arguments about seasons and people showing they do not know what the real issues are. For example does ANYONE using those bad arguments even know of what happened with GDW and how it affects BT thus possibly including MWO? Yes that is important.

[PocketYoda]

New content every month would have saved us from the down turn.. or a company that actually gave a crap.

A working matchmaker, casuals not being stomped by hardcore groups every match would have helped some what as well.

Buying new mech variants is not new content.

Edited by MechaGnome, 06 August 2021 - 06:03 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Wildstreak, on 06 August 2021 - 05:40 AM, said:

As I showed, you can be a Casual, play just for events and easily play more than 10 games a month without risk to your health. It is also a known fact in PvP games there are Casuals who do not like being lumped into the Competitive Player Pool thus one reason online PvP games tend to have separate queues for them. It is a fact that even a number of Competitive Players do not want to be lumped into the same pool as Casuals for reasons they have provided.

So why?

Why put Casuals and Comps into the same pool?

They're only in the same "pool" for purposes of statistical analysis of the games player population, with the 10 game minimum defining a player for that purpose; not a casual or comp player, but merely a player.

There is no combining of casuals and comps merely because a person from both groups played 1 game a month or 10 games in a month. Because I am ranked on the same leader board as the competitive players does not make me part of their "pool" any more than it makes them part of mine. We are only in the same pool if we happen to be playing at the same time, and the MM puts us together. That can happen to someone playing only 1 game a month or 300 games a month. That 10 game minimum is irrelevant to who is in who's pool.

Changing the minimum number of games to be counted as a player would do nothing to change the number of players actually playing the game. Increasing the minimum number of games needed to be considered a player of the game (which is what I think you are proposing) would only decrease the apparent number of players being considered for statistical analysis. It would do nothing to improve separation between comp and casual players.

[MyriadDigits]

Tywren, on 05 August 2021 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well lets start with the RAC2 having a higher DPS than a RAC5 while taking up less space, weighing less, and having a longer range.

https://mech.nav-alp...53626d55_BSW-X1 RAC2

https://mech.nav-alp...cedbbabe_BSW-X1 RAC5

3RAC2 has 7.20 sustained DPS, 19.64 maximum DPS, takes 9 slots (+5 for ammo), and weighs 24 tons (+5 for ammo).

2RAC5 has 8.86 sustained DPS (or 7.39 with only 10 DHS), 21.83 maximum DPS, takes 12 slots (+5 for ammo), and weighs 20 tons (+5 for ammo).

So RAC2 only holds an advantage in range and using less slots. However, the 4 tons saved with using 2RAC5 over 3RAC2 allows the build to swap the Ferro Fibrous for Light Ferro Fibrous, which opens up 7 slots. So in certain mechs such as the given Bushwhacker, it actually uses less slots to fit 2RAC5 over 3RAC2.

Not to mention that the RAC5 build was able to add 2 additional heatsinks in those freed up slots and still had the tonnage to up the engine from a 250 to a 270.

[Sawk]

Interesting topic,
I have done plenty of testing with RAC2 and 5s, and also LBX2, compared to LBX5, many times the LBX2 has the speed and in some ways, can be altered with skill tree
But this is about the RAC2, first really fun mech i had was timberwolf with 3 RAC2, and med lazers, so much fun, .7 SEC speed and a double click WOW, and it blinded them --- you know fire in your face : )
but it could not kill many, the alpha on it was like 28, but i could herd folks to some degree, but then i had jamming--- this can be the biggest challenge the jamming
so HOW is that done, guys its called a RANDOM NUMBER, and its bigger then you think, it controls how much jamming you get, how components you kill, and even the LRM landing to some degree.

IF you made it this far, most will run off all pissed off, and call me stupid please leave, i do not want you here.

HOW i test timberwolf, 1 rac 2 and 2 rac 5 2 med lazers, i test both firings chain fire, single for the new guys and group fire, NOTE chain fire will jam less, that is single fire, group fire will jam 50% more, so on to the test
USING chain/single fire in a test ground - can you kill first 2 doulple clicking with zero jams, i use 4 mechs to get number between 1 and 10, for the random number try it -- i have more info if want more.

SAWK

[MadBede]

Heh, last weapon buffs killing game:
-mongo builds with extreme alpha
-long range sniping
-TTK so low even on well armored mechs, if you made one bad decision game is over for you.. where is fun?
Players got enough, simple

[Thorqemada]

Monkey Lover, on 05 August 2021 - 10:14 PM, said:

Real faction play would bring back tons of people. There used to be tons of people on faction servers that are now gone.

FP never lived up to its promises and expectations - it was allways dwarfed by QP and would so even today.
Despite some attempts it never developed a broadly entertaining gameplay/missionstructure.

Also, a 24/7 PVP game is unrewarding for casual players as they be very conscious that they will lose everything they fought for the very moment they go to work, to sleep, log out for whatever good reason they have.
The 24/7 Guys will play to the Casuals timeconstraints and make everything they achieved in their very precious playtimewindows vain.

With no entertaining gameplay (maybe except scouting but even that went in the way the side exploiting the mechanics won over the side seeking engaging gameplay) and no effect that lasts beyond the few hours of lifetime they grant the game the casuals will only play FP for friends force them too by peer pressure bcs aside of not damaging the relation to their FP playing peers they achieve no goal nor reward - they only avert social contact disadvantages/deterioration.

You need a FP mode that makes PVP playtime/timezone independent.
Somthing that gives advantages for playing and that stays after players log out to fulfill their daily non gaming obligations.
At least a sort of pool that stores the combined effort of all the players of each side for an amount of time that someone who is not a 24/7 pvper still can experience a difference and feels rewarded beyond averting social damage the next time that person logs in.

Which would very probably translate into MWO two point oh if there ever is one.

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 August 2021 - 07:34 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Sawk, on 07 August 2021 - 04:45 PM, said:

Interesting topic,
I have done plenty of testing with RAC2 and 5s, and also LBX2, compared to LBX5, many times the LBX2 has the speed and in some ways, can be altered with skill tree
But this is about the RAC2, first really fun mech i had was timberwolf with 3 RAC2, and med lazers, so much fun, .7 SEC speed and a double click WOW, and it blinded them --- you know fire in your face : )
but it could not kill many, the alpha on it was like 28, but i could herd folks to some degree, but then i had jamming--- this can be the biggest challenge the jamming
so HOW is that done, guys its called a RANDOM NUMBER, and its bigger then you think, it controls how much jamming you get, how components you kill, and even the LRM landing to some degree.

IF you made it this far, most will run off all pissed off, and call me stupid please leave, i do not want you here.

HOW i test timberwolf, 1 rac 2 and 2 rac 5 2 med lazers, i test both firings chain fire, single for the new guys and group fire, NOTE chain fire will jam less, that is single fire, group fire will jam 50% more, so on to the test
USING chain/single fire in a test ground - can you kill first 2 doulple clicking with zero jams, i use 4 mechs to get number between 1 and 10, for the random number try it -- i have more info if want more.

SAWK

How did you get RAC2s on a timberwolf?

[Monkey Lover]

Bulletsponge0, on 07 August 2021 - 07:40 PM, said:

How did you get RAC2s on a timberwolf?

Edited by Monkey Lover, 07 August 2021 - 09:15 PM.

[w0qj]

Bulletsponge0, on 07 August 2021 - 07:40 PM, said:

How did you get RAC2s on a timberwolf?

Oops... someone just spilled the beans on future MWO timeline expansion, the first since the MWO Civil War timeline!

OmniMechs for Inner Sphere!
Clan gets RAC, MRM, and advanced-PPC!
Inner Sphere gets advanced versions of ATM, advanced lasers Lasers!
A few new Mech Chassis, including Stone Rhino!
New PvE mode/content!
Deepened experience for Faction Play!
Entirely new maps!


(Just kidding...but I can dream about MWO, right?)

Edited by w0qj, 07 August 2021 - 10:00 PM.