53 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

At around minute 48 of the video the commentator states "LRM have so many counters it is not possible to win".

If a comp scene comentator states that i guess he has the experience and authority to make this assessment!

Edited by Thorqemada, 04 August 2021 - 12:29 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

yawn. You are trying too hard and it's showing.


Just because the shoutcaster says something, does not mean it is true.

MWO Comp has shout casters that are Tier 5 level all the way up to the Elite 99.9%. Opinions may vary and aren't necessarily always correct and completely situational as well.

There was an internal lobby with EmP / EON friends ~3 months ago. Lizzee (EON) cranked out ~1000dmg with LRMs in a 6v6 and carried the game against the best players in the game on both sides.

Keep trying.

[Thorqemada]

Well, the bigger the guns firing back the more that side feals threatened...

[HauptmanT]

Thorqemada, on 03 August 2021 - 11:37 PM, said:

In regard to videos showing LRM usage i have one form the comp scene where a Team tries to make LRM work:
Blood League 7v7 - Black Omen vs. KDCM - Twitch

They get obliterated!

Yeah, you can argue they are a less talented team which makes them fail but so i can argue the Video that shows the LRM80 Mech was made work by the talented team plus an less talented opponent that could not adapt to it in time and not by the very LRM weapon!

PS: Fights start around minute 14 of the video...

That is like the second worst LRM map. First being Solaris, third being Blood River. Blood river you can make it work, but you are just gonna have a bad time with LRMs on the other two. You have to play them like bad SRMs.

[Horseman]

Wulverado, on 02 August 2021 - 06:00 AM, said:

Title pretty much says it all.

Im running NOVA with 3 AMS (Laser version) is this overkill?

Does the laser -AMS and ammo-AMS work the same way ?

I tend to run with the assaults and other who have to expose longer and provide them with AMS services, while trying to not block their retreat ;D

3xAMS is not overkill. LAMS works the same except for the ammo/heat difference.
I would NOT use 3xLAMS on a NVA, though - or, really, any LAMS on the chassis since its' free tonnage and hardpoints railroad it towards being an energy boat.

[Curccu]

justcallme A S H, on 04 August 2021 - 01:01 AM, said:

There was an internal lobby with EmP / EON friends ~3 months ago. Lizzee (EON) cranked out ~1000dmg with LRMs in a 6v6 and carried the game against the best players in the game on both sides.

Keep trying.

Which map was it?

[1453 R]

People often forget that comp games are on predetermined maps. You know where you'll be dropping and what mode you'll be playing when you get there, and part of the game is tailoring your drop to that map. Comps don't bring lurms to maps with an abundance of hard cover that foxes lurms, such as Crimson or River City. They will consider lurms on maps with a general lack of hard/overhead cover, such as Alpine or Caustic. The weapons are situational and highly team dependent, but that doesn't mean they aren't hammers in the situations where they work. Which is a great reason to bring AMS, especially in Puglandia where you have no idea if you'll be facing no missiles at all or an unbearable shitstorm of lurms.

[justcallme A S H]

Curccu, on 04 August 2021 - 06:11 AM, said:

Which map was it?

Canyon. LRMs are absolutely savage on it, and other maps, as anyone paying attention would know. I've casted, played in and watched LRMs obliterate opposition on it in Comp settings and many maps they are mega strong.

Also to be clear that Comp is not the focus of Cauldron. Quick Play is.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 04 August 2021 - 07:02 AM.

[1453 R]

I snagged a Lacerator from this unannounced Hero sale they're running with spare MC specifically because it allows me to run dual AMS set-ups on the Thunder Pigeon. The Lacerator RT with an AMS and an energy hardpoint is a gift from Odin and should be on the wishlist of every Stormcrow pilot there is. Dual AMS with overload is, I believe, worth something like 3.4 standard AMS units, and right now you can shield your allies from enemy missiles even behind total cover. AMS units shoot through terrain; the game treats it as a zone of autonomous missile death, not as a projectile weapon.

Which is why you should remember to bind your 'Turn AMS on/off' key and use it when you don't need to be shooting down missiles, such as when you're holding in the basement of HPG or hidden behind skyscrapers in Solaris. Conserve the ammo/cooling and don't give away your position as much.

[1453 R]

ALSO, as I catch up for the morning and recall this...

w0qj, on 03 August 2021 - 10:31 PM, said:

Why not use Mad Dog MDD-Prime, with good missile quirks using full Set-of-8? Just curious!

Because the Doge Prime has all of four energy as backup armaments. Any 'Mech serious about Lurmishing needs TAG, so one of those hardpoints is spoken for. That leaves exactly three energy hardpoints to do stuff with, and 3E does not accomplish much by itself. What makes my Stormcrow and Timberpuppy builds work (acknowledging that I'm in T5, so for a given definition of 'work') is that they are not 100% reliant on their LRMs as a Doge Prime is.

The Stormcrow moves fifteen to twenty klicks faster than a Doge does and when people press in close to it because they see lurms, it can eviscerate them with its huge battery of dagger lasers. Or I can drop on a map where lurms don't work well and just decide to lean on the lasers instead and operate as an admittedly-too-hot striker/brawler, pushing aggressively with those lasers to murder people. The ol' Rainy Chicken is also phenomenal at dealing with backrow-kicking stealth lights like Fleas or Pirate's Banes - LRM-stabbing light 'Mechs are not prepared for a Stormcrow with ten dagger-fighter's lasers and a TAG to peel off their stealth armor and reveal their position to the whole-*** team whilst being more than capable of keeping it in view and blasting it to bits if it stops juking for even a second.

In the Stormcrow's case, the LRMs are honestly the secondary armament - they're weapons of opportunity I use when the team is chickendicking and there's no good opportunities to harvest limbs/lives with the lasers. The 'Mech wins games by tearing people apart with the daggers; the LRMs are there to make that stage of the match easier later and give it reach the daggers don't have. Same, if to a lesser extent, with the Timber Wolf. The Mad Doge simply can't do that. It's outright bad at direct fighting and can't readily switch between pounding folks with missiles and tearing them up with beams.

The Doge is the better LRM delivery system, but in Puglandia that doesn't matter. Lurmishers have to be able to handle their own defense and their own finish-the-job. I've found, over and over, that in quick drop matches 'Mechs with just LRMs lose for free to 'Mechs with LRMs-and-also-other-stuff.

Edited by 1453 R, 04 August 2021 - 08:50 AM.

[PocketYoda]

AMS is the only real defense against missile spam the game has, so it makes sense boating them counters Lurmers boating missiles.. And really AMS is a feeble defense against serious lrms boats.. So yes 3 is fine 4 is fine as many as the game allows is fine if it counters the mess that is lurmers.

[Brizna]

MechaGnome, on 06 August 2021 - 05:54 AM, said:

AMS is the only real defense against missile spam the game has, so it makes sense boating them counters Lurmers boating missiles.. And really AMS is a feeble defense against serious lrms boats.. So yes 3 is fine 4 is fine as many as the game allows is fine if it counters the mess that is lurmers.

AMS travels with you, high cover doesn't, but high cover is plain better than AMS.

As you raise in tiers you will find people making less mistakes and using cover more efficiently which makes LRMs less useful.

[PocketYoda]

For me the Dual AMS crab is a good counter to LRMs its high speed and AMS make most LRM spam very limited.