6 replies to this topic

[GoDsiZeSnakEyes]

As a returning player trying all the content that is new to me (mostly mechs and weapons) I find myself unable to actually enjoy the game and I probably wont stick around. Couldn't quite put my finger on why this game feels so stale and repetitive now even though I am playing in new mechs and load outs. Now I see it's 12vs12 and that no matter what game mode it is, its just death ball TDM every single game. When I used to play in the 8vs8 days I remember a lot more variety in tactics and games were objective based and people actually played objectives. Mabey I just don't know what I'm doing anymore but can't see myself sticking around.

[Fae Puka]

Go and read all the previous posts about this suggestion - not wanted and will do nothing to help the game. What really needs to happen is for PGI to actively promote MWO, encourage new players and improve the retention of all players to expand the population which in turn would assist in making more balanced drops, return FP to its former glory and improve people's experiences.

8 v 8 at this time would make 4 man groups and sync dropping an absolute nightmare and undoubtedly drive more people out of the game.

[D V Devnull]

GoDsiZeSnakEyes, on 30 August 2021 - 02:57 PM, said:

As a returning player trying all the content that is new to me (mostly mechs and weapons) I find myself unable to actually enjoy the game and I probably wont stick around. Couldn't quite put my finger on why this game feels so stale and repetitive now even though I am playing in new mechs and load outs. Now I see it's 12vs12 and that no matter what game mode it is, its just death ball TDM every single game. When I used to play in the 8vs8 days I remember a lot more variety in tactics and games were objective based and people actually played objectives. Mabey I just don't know what I'm doing anymore but can't see myself sticking around.

MummyPig, on 31 August 2021 - 12:47 AM, said:

Go and read all the previous posts about this suggestion - not wanted and will do nothing to help the game. What really needs to happen is for PGI to actively promote MWO, encourage new players and improve the retention of all players to expand the population which in turn would assist in making more balanced drops, return FP to its former glory and improve people's experiences.

8 v 8 at this time would make 4 man groups and sync dropping an absolute nightmare and undoubtedly drive more people out of the game.

Hello there, you two... It so happens that proper reading by GoDsiZeSnakEyes will actually show that there are people on both sides of the "8v8 vs 12v12" fence. ( should obviously go around and do some more reading too!) However, both of these sides keep doing the awful thing of being hard-nosed and ignoring the third group (which includes me) that wants both Team Sizes available to play with. What we instead need to do is create a Dynamic MatchMaking System that does all of the following...

• PSR Balance – Already here... Should not be lost... Does need fine-tuning still...
  
• Dynamic Tonnage Balance – Currently not present in any form... Difference in the Tonnage of both Teams needs to be reduced to no more than 50 Tons Maximum in order to reduce stomps. The old system of 3/3/3/3 is way beyond obsolete and should NEVER be brought back.
  
• Dynamic Team Size – Here's the fun part, and where 8v8 gets to make a comeback... Instead of being only one or the other, we instead make it be in tandem with 12v12 for how big that a Team ends up being. But, we also give the user checkboxes along with the ones for selecting Server Region which enable picking what size of Match that they are willing to play. After taking that into account, what would happen is that we start with a check on how many people are playing, and what Team Size they're willing to play with. For those who have decided they will not accept both Team Size options being active, they get queued into functions that respect their wanting to operate with "Only 8v8" or "Only 12v12" for their scenario. For the ones who are willing to accept having both Team Size options active, they get put into a Dynamic Super-Queue that will quickly help fill in the battles where people were hard-nosed about how big they want their Match to be. That will enable those who want to have both Match Size options to hopefully get a nice mix of game rounds to play. Also, if all of those hard-nosed Match setups have already been fulfilled, then it would be safe for PGI's MatchMaker to go check the population state and dynamically build additional 8v8 and/or 12v12 rounds based on how many additional people are still queued up. For these people (who are therefore getting caught in what would – at least when I am typing this post – currently be a rare state) in the queue, we would admittedly have to tilt more toward making an 8v8 than allowing the MatchMaker's brakes to release, but at least it would give more of a chance for the Match that is being set up to not be lopsided in any manner.
  
• Dynamic Group Allocation – Now, as for Groups and their effect on gameplay, we obviously can not allow a Four-Person Grouping to appear in an 8v8 round due to the Balance-related upset which it would cause. It so happens that does hit the problem square on the proverbial nose there. For an 8v8 Match being played, we would have to restrict things, and only allow a maximum of one Group that is no bigger than a Three-Person Grouping in size. Beyond that strict limitation, those who continue to want 12v12 will be able to continue on in a manner like how things are now, having either a single Four-Person Grouping on their side for any Match played, or having a Three-Person Grouping plus a Two-Person Grouping together on their side of the battle. In terms of how a Group would have their queue-up initiated, the Group Leader would have their personal setting for "8v8, 12v12, or both options" taken into account, unless the Group has reached being a Four-Person Grouping in size, at which point they must accept being put in a 12v12 type of battle. Otherwise, the stomp issue that identifies would have the chance of unnecessarily happening, and we have to avoid that occurrence without question here.

...and with that entire feature array for a Dynamic MatchMaker System finally in play, everyone could finally have those styles & variety of gameplay that they seek in the types of Match which they want to play. Heck, if we could get PGI's Developers to put in the time & work to implement what I am speaking of here, then I really do think we could put this whole thing about "8v8 vs 12v12" to bed forever, as we would end up covering all three mental positions (as in, including those who want both, along with those who only want one or the other) on the matter. Yeah, I know it would take a bit of engineering & programming to get it done, as it does take a lot of effort to enable the players to have their personal choices heard & respected, but I seriously think it would be far more than worth it in order to end & bury the argument forever!

~D. V. "We need to give players more choice along with a Dynamic MatchMaker in order to end this debacle." Devnull

[GoDsiZeSnakEyes]

Yea I did dig deeper with proper searches after MummyPig commented and found it has a long debated history since the change. Based on the poll the community is pretty much split down the middle on what they prefer.

I found a lot of comments on the trial of 8vs8 for a month or two a few years back but I couldn't find anything on how it went. I'm assuming not well if it didn't stick around.

[D V Devnull]

GoDsiZeSnakEyes, on 31 August 2021 - 12:56 PM, said:

Yea I did dig deeper with proper searches after MummyPig commented and found it has a long debated history since the change. Based on the poll the community is pretty much split down the middle on what they prefer.

I found a lot of comments on the trial of 8vs8 for a month or two a few years back but I couldn't find anything on how it went. I'm assuming not well if it didn't stick around.

Thankfully, that is something I do remember a little about, and is the reason my post above got written the way it is. The biggest reason it did not go well is because those who were developing at PGI and providing the possibility of having 8v8 wanted to force a complete change from 12v12 over to 8v8 with no alternate options. This automatically angered the crowd who wanted 12v12 to play. It also almost equally upset those who wanted 8v8 to become an available choice without losing the 12v12 option for those who prefer the bigger battles to play in. Plus, it upset those as well who wanted a mix of both 12v12 and 8v8 types of Match to have variety in their gameplay. Unfortunately, those who were doing the developing at PGI back then did not properly take the feedback in, and they were also way too mind-blowing unwillingly lazy to put in the development time to actually do things right and make everyone happy. Thus today, we're still stuck on 12v12 only with no 8v8 unless someone is willing to accept being in the murderous Comp. Queue area of the game, which is simply no fun for some people. At this point, one can only hope that Matt/Daeron/Mark/Francois (in other words, the current front-runners handling MWO now) can do something about the situation, now that they're at the helm of things. Sadly for me, I have to consider even that possibility of adding 8v8 specifically as a choice (and NOT a total change over) to be a far-off dream at this time.

~D. V. "So many things went wrong back then, and the situation with '12v12 & 8v8 Matches' was one of them." Devnull

[ejw0508]

As far as I am concerned 8v8 can stay just have groups have there own Q

[Spare Parts Bin]

ejw0508, on 19 March 2022 - 02:36 PM, said:

As far as I am concerned 8v8 can stay just have groups have there own Q

I agree. 12v12 could stay with Faction Play.