230 replies to this topic

[Wid1046]

Is the reason why the Vindicators aren't getting any material quirk changes due to the engine changes? I really don't see the engine changes fixing their problems, so I'm hopeful they'll get looked at again in another patch.

[Gas Guzzler]

-Ramrod-, on 17 September 2021 - 06:51 PM, said:

Why the hell did you nerf the Hellspawn? Don't tell me it was OP because it isn't even with the current quirks. Everything else seems ok though.

Looks like net buffs to the Hellspawn…

[C337Skymaster]

Agent Super Chicken, on 17 September 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

Ruh Roh - this is where I do all my Testing Grounds to make sure my builds have enough ammo to kill 8 mechs that aren't fighting back.
Will the same 8 dummy mechs be present on the new map?

Yes, but they might have some leg damage. Just like you spawn in 15 meters above ground level on the Polar Highlands rework and drop in, doing minor leg damage, so, too, have the target 'mechs not been relocated even a centimeter, and will auto-adjust their position based on height and gravity once the game fully loads in.

[Lepestok]

I wanted to write that I don't like the new Caustic Valley. What François makes the maps the same. That the Canyons, HPG Manifold, and now the Caustic Valley have averaged and lost their faces. That it is better to make new maps, and not change your favorite old ones. But still I will wait for the patch and look at this map with my own eyes. But damn it, I loved this volcano. Its contours are the first thing I saw in the game when I started playing.

Edited by Lepestok, 18 September 2021 - 01:05 AM.

[nuttyrat]

Bud Crue, on 17 September 2021 - 06:52 PM, said:

-- SNIP --

More quirk changes are to come, including the Quickdraws, so not to worry. As bear_cl4w mentioned, The Cauldron is only able to make so many changes at once so please keep an eye out for future patches .. and keep the feedback coming!

[bear_cl4w]

Bud Crue, on 17 September 2021 - 06:52 PM, said:

Sorry, I didn't intend to post that under my alt. In any case, the only mechs I care to see buffed, are those with limited, and mixed hard points, particularly heavies.

To my way of thinking the Quickdraw 4G and to a lesser extent the Quickdraw 4H and to a lesser extent still, the 5K, are the examples of Heavies with potential loadouts that can be done better with numerous other variants that are better, and in many cases better and lighter. To be blunt, they have no character and no real reason to exist in the present game.

To illustrate: why would I bother with a MPL 5K or even a laser vomit 5K when I can build a better mech in a Jester or a Grasshopper (heavier but otherwise similar in characteristics, save for the GHP will have slightly less agility but better armor, cooling and a higher alpha potential, and the Jester gets the same build plus dual AMS), or go lighter in a 55 ton Sparky (assuming JJ are a must) or be far tankier in a Crab if JJs are not a concern, or even a Wolfhound. A 4H is a doable 2HPPC build (heat bonus), but why not just take a 3ERPPC Veagle for more agility, half weight JJs, and a similar arguably better) alpha with no range restrictions? If you are going to look at mix build, yes the 4G and 4H have some potential, but hereto a mech as light as an X-5 or any of a variety of 45-55 ton mechs can do the same build as well or better. If you are going to turn the 4H into an MRM boat you are still better off with an IV-4, and even better off in a Wolverine at 5 tons less. There is absolutely NOTHING you can build on the 4G that another mech can't do better ( 3LPL? the Thunderbolts rule this niche, 2 SRM4, or a 4 and a 6 +Artemis, with Snubs or MPL, see above).

As they are, all three of the non-hero Quickdraws are pointless. Anything they can do something else can do the same build but better, and that is why I would like to see them buffed.

Lastly, you suggest that this is just the "second" quirk pass, and their might be some potential for them to be buffed in the future. I certainly hope that is true of all variants/mechs if the data justifies it, but my comment originates from when the Cauldron (then Gulag) first put out its initial spreadsheet of mechs in need of changes, and the only Quickdraw that was listed was the IV--4 and it was one of the few mechs listed for a nerf (50% reduced armor quirk). There was nothing listed for the rest. I just think they need some help to make them more viable in the current meta (armor instead of structure for example)

Rest assured, if they haven't been re-quirked in this pass they will be quirked in future passes. Every mech minus a few currently exceptional performers. Will get re adjusted to fit the goal of making all mechs in the game viable in some fashion or another.

[doctormanuse]

After a summer with tons of work, I finally have two weeks off starting on monday... and I get showered with new stuff on MWO and MW5. This is better than birthday and christmas together. You made an old Mechwarrior very happy.

I really appreciate the buffs on a number of chassis that are usually hangar queens. You can see someone knows what he is doing. Ammo buffs on lighs mechs, increased engine max size on slow mediums and assaults. This is exactly what I thougth needs to be done to make this builds work... and now its there.

If the Charger 3K now geta a LPL +1 HSL, I would think someone reads my mind.

[Lexandro Wolf]

Why PGI, why???

The new HPG map is horrible...now, you made another old classic map "reborn".

There are a lot of options from the FP maps... Why do not work with them???

[Horseman]

-Ramrod-, on 17 September 2021 - 06:51 PM, said:

Why the hell did you nerf the Hellspawn? Don't tell me it was OP because it isn't even with the current quirks. Everything else seems ok though.

InnerSphereNews, on 17 September 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

HSN-7D:

• Removed Pulse laser range
  
• Added 5% Energy range
  
• Added 15% medium pulse laser range
  
• Added -10% Missile spread
  
• Added 10% Missile velocity
  
• Added -10% Missile cooldown

5% Energy Range functionally replaces 5% Pulse Laser Range and being more flexible, is a buff. Everything else is a buff

Quote

HSN-8E:

• Added +1 Target decay duration
  
• Added -10% Missile spread
  
• Removed cooldown
  
• Removed range
  
• Added -10% Energy cooldown
  
• Added 10% energy range
  
• Added -10 SNPPC heat

The missile weapons lose cooldown and range, energy weapons compensate with the new energy quirk, everything else is a net buff.

Quote

HSN-9F:

• Added 15% MRM velocity
  
• Removed cooldown
  
• Reduced weapon velocity to -5%
  
• Added -10% Missile heat
  
• Added -10% energy cooldown
  
• Added -10% pulse laser cooldown
  
• Added -10% pulse laser heat

The missile weapons lose cooldown, SRMs, SSRMs and LRMs lose 5% velocity, MRMs gain 5%, energy weapons compensate with the new energy cooldown quirk, everything else is a net buff.
Looks like they're railroading this one into a MRM boat

Quote

HSN-7P:

• Added 15% ER Medium laser range
  
• Added -5% Laser heat
  
• Added -5% LPPC heat
  
• Added 10% weapon velocity

Pure buffs.

Quote

HSN-8P:

• Added 10% SRM range
  
• Added -5% SRM spread
  
• Added SRM6 HSL +1
  
• Removed Range
  
• Added 10% Missile range
  
• Added +1 Target decay duration

The energy weapons (all two of them) lose range, missile weapons compensate with the new range quirk, everything else is a net buff.
Looks like they want this one to be an SRM boat.

Quote

HSN-7D2:

• Added -50% Stealth armor cooldown
  
• Added -20% STD and ER laser duration

Pure buffs.

Edited by Horseman, 18 September 2021 - 03:24 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Simply running out of maps to vote for as Francois/PGI royally ruin everything.

Thank you Cauldron for yet more net buffs to the Lights, something they do not need - and why do they get ammo buffs, ammo is ammo so every mech should get the same 100% buff.

The game is fast going down the pan and there's little to encourage new players or retain the ones who have been willing to spend cash, only to see it be redirected away from the game they want to support.

[FLG 01]

Wid1046, on 17 September 2021 - 08:33 PM, said:

Is the reason why the Vindicators aren't getting any material quirk changes due to the engine changes? I really don't see the engine changes fixing their problems, so I'm hopeful they'll get looked at again in another patch.

Considering they have a solid geometry and good survivability quirks already, I'd say their engines are a weak point.
And one has to admit the new ratings are very carefully chosen (250 allows for 10 engine HS, 275 and 300 allow for an additional engine HS respectively), besides adding to the speed.

The only disappointment in this patch is the Griffin and perhaps the Zeus. The Griffin's extremely poor geometry and size asks for more substantial quirks and most of its new offensive quirks are rather underwhelming.

[Flanking Boy]

C337Skymaster, on 17 September 2021 - 07:41 PM, said:

Oh, boy: what's not to object to? First and foremost, the new redesign is butt ugly, and completely ruins the entire aesthetic of the map. There are ramps freaking EVERYWHERE, none of which make any sense at all, anymore. I've personally seen at least two "suicides" from 'mechs that fell off the wall into the out-of-bounds area and couldn't get back up the wall again because it's too high right where they were at and they didn't have time to run to a lower section. In order to run "domination" matches, we're now ADDING a dish to a map whose central defining feature is a giant dish...

If you want to keep the current arrangement and fix the issues, get rid of all the freaking ramps. You can completely eliminate any and all cover on top of the walls, if sniping is your main concern. Honestly, you wouldn't have cover up there, anyway. At least not to protect you from the inside, so that would be entirely fitting and in keeping with the facility design. (Nor would any cover that might exist be able to withstand weapons fire from a battlemech).

Thing is, HPG didn't need a rework. Certainly not one that drastic. Any "being left behind by rotation" issues were circumvented by shortcutting through the basement. Snipers were dealt with by massed return fire (I can't remember when's the last time a sniper on the wall was actually effective, prior to the recent buff to Centurion armor, and I can distinctly remember snipers being thoroughly punished via PPC, AC/2, and LRM fire from the previously central platform, even in the weeks and months leading up to the patch). Certainly any time I tried getting up on the wall, I didn't last more than two volleys before I had to jump down and seek effective cover, because there wasn't any up there, and there's a LOT of long range firepower on the modern battlefield.

Everyone gets super pissy about "the last guy" and how the 12th player on a team continues to try to kite and fight, rather than dutifully reporting to the slaughterhouse like a good little boy, but simultaneously we have abuse report options for pilots who do exactly that. If everyone is so incredibly concerned about "the last guy" then we need to add a withdrawal option, rather than destroy functional maps.

What I wouldn't mind seeing, though, is the two "out of bounds" areas outside the HPG station brought within the playable boundary area, so a 'mech can completely circumnavigate the exterior of the facility. It'll present options to non-jump-capable 'mechs who can suddenly find themselves up on a wall they never had any business being on, who accidentally step off the wrong side, and it'll open up options for lighter 'mechs who might not have a clear shot through the center.

Map boundaries remind me of Lewis Black's description of a paid hunting facility that uses fences to keep game trapped in a small area: "We've found [the deer]. We've got it trapped in the corner!"

100% agree, it have become total messy now...

[GoodTry]

Did they un-nerf ECM skill nodes in this patch? I didn’t see it in the notes.

[D V Devnull]

GoodTry, on 18 September 2021 - 03:53 AM, said:

Did they un-nerf ECM skill nodes in this patch? I didn’t see it in the notes.

The core ECM system in-game has been UN-Nerfed, therefore meaning that the ECM Skill Nodes do not need to be so strong anymore. This happened during the last Monthly Patch of the MWO Live Client's coding. You're still getting the same final strength with the Skill Nodes actively applied, but a much stronger basic strength. There is literally no need to complain about the ECM and its' Skill Nodes at all, as it was merely a lateral shift of where the strength comes from.

If anything, what really needs complaining about is that the BAP & CAP appear to both be unable to Counter ECM at all anymore. Or at least that's what I encountered during a recent round of play, unless I had more than one ECM near me and didn't see it. (Or the Stealth Armor active near me....... And yet I could have sworn at the time that there was only the one ECM without Stealth anywhere in the vicinity near me.) What has been available to read of the Lore online shows that BAP & C-AP (But not C-LAP) are supposed to be able to Counter ECM from an Enemy Mech in battle. Those are the items which need help, not the ECM unit.

~D. V. "ECM has no issues, and neither does C-LAP at this time, but BAP & C-AP possibly appear to" Devnull

[Runecarver]

Health increase to clan LRMs is a bit miniscule. It should be accompanied with a velocity increase for both IS and Clan versions of the weapon systems. That, or reducing the volley delay on clan LRMs so that they fly in more of a cluster than a string as they currently do.

So a clan LRM15 and 20 go from losing 7-8 missiles to a single AMS, to losing 5-7 missiles to single AMS. On a spreadsheet, that might look like a big change, but in the usual game environment where there's overlap from two or more AMS' it really doesn't matter, as just two AMS' will devastate a volley from a clan LRM20 to the point you're left with 1-3 missiles getting through.

As it is now, AMS scales too damn well.

Edited by Runecarver, 18 September 2021 - 05:02 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Adding new quirks to the Champion, and still not bumping up the torso pitch to the same as the Bushwacker…..

Enjoy. I’ll be punching mechs in the face.

[pattonesque]

PeppaPig, on 18 September 2021 - 02:48 AM, said:

Simply running out of maps to vote for as Francois/PGI royally ruin everything.

Thank you Cauldron for yet more net buffs to the Lights, something they do not need - and why do they get ammo buffs, ammo is ammo so every mech should get the same 100% buff.

The game is fast going down the pan and there's little to encourage new players or retain the ones who have been willing to spend cash, only to see it be redirected away from the game they want to support.

Lights are consistently the lowest-performing weight class in terms of average match score. Ammo buffs were given to make certain mechs, like the Locust-3S which I have seen ZERO times since returning this year, viable.

Also the population for the past few months is the highest it’s been at the same point since 2018.

This sounds like another situation where someone consistently misses lights due to panic and refuses to change

[-Ramrod-]

Horseman, on 18 September 2021 - 01:06 AM, said:

5% Energy Range functionally replaces 5% Pulse Laser Range and being more flexible, is a buff. Everything else is a buff
The missile weapons lose cooldown and range, energy weapons compensate with the new energy quirk, everything else is a net buff.
The missile weapons lose cooldown, SRMs, SSRMs and LRMs lose 5% velocity, MRMs gain 5%, energy weapons compensate with the new energy cooldown quirk, everything else is a net buff.
Looks like they're railroading this one into a MRM boat
Pure buffs.
The energy weapons (all two of them) lose range, missile weapons compensate with the new range quirk, everything else is a net buff.
Looks like they want this one to be an SRM boat.
Pure buffs.

I'm moreso talking about the cooldown and range quirks for certain variants.

[Wid1046]

FLG 01, on 18 September 2021 - 02:49 AM, said:

Considering they have a solid geometry and good survivability quirks already, I'd say their engines are a weak point.
And one has to admit the new ratings are very carefully chosen (250 allows for 10 engine HS, 275 and 300 allow for an additional engine HS respectively), besides adding to the speed.

The only disappointment in this patch is the Griffin and perhaps the Zeus. The Griffin's extremely poor geometry and size asks for more substantial quirks and most of its new offensive quirks are rather underwhelming.

I disagree about Vindicators being in a good place right now. The problem is their weapon hardpoint locations. Some mechs with sub-optimal hardpoints shoot from the waist, even worse mechs shoot from the hip, however the Vindicator is the only mech that I can think of that manages to shoot from it's thigh.

The mechs ridiculous orangutan arms and the lower energy hardpoint on its right arm make it so that you need to expose almost all of the mech to shoot and make it so that even gently rolling hills will block your shots. This is the main reason why the mech is rarely seen. You can't fix such a poor layout using quirks, but you can at least use quirks to offset the downside of the layout to make it more playable.

They however didn't really make any material changes to the quirks. They mostly merged existing quirks together; so while the four lines under the 1X look like they changed something, the net change is only a ballistic cooldown increase of +5.

Overall, I think that this patch is a good step in the right direction for the mechs that it affected. However, I'm hoping that they take another look at the mechs that are currently doing poorly that they have technically changed without really improving.

[DangerousOne]

pattonesque, on 18 September 2021 - 06:22 AM, said:

This sounds like another situation where someone consistently misses lights due to panic and refuses to change

How about - crappy game engine, not so good client and server syncronisation, lags, teleport-shielding, considerable FPS dorops during intense action scence?

Most players have problems hitting assault mechs while everything is more or less going smoosly. At the moment when one (or gods forbid two or more) lights start to jump around you like crazy monkeys poor technical state of the game does its morbid job.

PS. I don't mind meds, heavies or assaults. The only ridiculous pain in the butt is lights, despite they are the lowest-performance class in the game. IMHO in Battletech they were never intended to be what they are in MWO.

Edited by DangerousOne, 18 September 2021 - 08:20 AM.