230 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 September 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

Just stop and get help dude.
Are you missing that virtually every MechWarrior game has strayed from the stuff you are talking about? And they are very much games based on BattleTech. This obsession with this online PVP game being identical to BattleTech lore is just wrong. If you want this crap that you keep talking about, mod MW5 so you have pay for ammo and for different ammo qualities (like how there is different quality weapons) and go to town and enjoy yourself. Mod MW5 so you basically can't get an Annihilator and whatever mech availability changes that you want to make. Requesting to add features like that that just makes the game more punishing to players is sadistic, and nobody wants that. This game should be more focused on the PVP experience but with the BattleTech "setting". Not making it into a whole mechlab economy simulator on top of that to give some players an advantage over others. Especially the old farts that have more then enough money to buy premium ammo regularly while the newer players still building up their mechbays have to buy bad ammo to get by. That's a terrible idea for a multiplayer game, and is really showing your lack of understanding of how to make an enjoyable multiplayer game.

Take that crap to PVE games where it belongs.

Yup, probably worth giving this a watch:

MWO could have been the immersive sim he so covets - if the call to make it so has been made early into development. It did not, and expecting the game to suddenly switch gears to become it is borderline delusional. As a F2P game, it needs to take player retention into account and causing another mass exodus is not something PGI would knowingly do.

[The6thMessenger]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 September 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

This obsession with this online PVP game being identical to BattleTech lore is just wrong. If you want this crap that you keep talking about, mod MW5 so you have pay for ammo and for different ammo qualities (like how there is different quality weapons) and go to town and enjoy yourself. Mod MW5 so you basically can't get an Annihilator and whatever mech availability changes that you want to make. Requesting to add features like that that just makes the game more punishing to players is sadistic, and nobody wants that. This game should be more focused on the PVP experience but with the BattleTech "setting". Not making it into a whole mechlab economy simulator on top of that to give some players an advantage over others. Especially the old farts that have more then enough money to buy premium ammo regularly while the newer players still building up their mechbays have to buy bad ammo to get by. That's a terrible idea for a multiplayer game, and is really showing your lack of understanding of how to make an enjoyable multiplayer game.

I think adding economy to at least something like faction play is a neat idea, like mech-repair, would at least acknowledge the worth of cheap mechs like Urbanmech, or cheap equipment.

But yeah problem is that rich old players would be able to play endlesslessly. While at the same time, FP would be rather hard to save up, and to play with. And if QP is free, but FP requires money, why play FP at all?

Might be okay for a new game, a BT MMORPG, not just this one.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 28 September 2021 - 05:43 PM.

[Xaius]

I was excited to try my St. Ives Blues after the buffs, but turns out my build idea (2xlrm15) just straight up doesn't work because it doesn't have enough barrels for the missiles to fire out of... which wouldn't be too bad if it just spread out the volley, but it adds half a second of cooldown to one of them due to firing time. Essentially, by just your second volley, your dual lrm 15s are firing in 3 different size volleys at vastly different timings... Plz add more missile holes... or at least make lrm cooldown begin on fire start instead of finish...

[CrimsonPhantom6sg062]

Xaius, on 30 September 2021 - 09:39 PM, said:

I was excited to try my St. Ives Blues after the buffs, but turns out my build idea (2xlrm15) just straight up doesn't work because it doesn't have enough barrels for the missiles to fire out of... which wouldn't be too bad if it just spread out the volley, but it adds half a second of cooldown to one of them due to firing time. Essentially, by just your second volley, your dual lrm 15s are firing in 3 different size volleys at vastly different timings... Plz add more missile holes... or at least make lrm cooldown begin on fire start instead of finish...

I am fine with remodelling the vindicator to add more missile tubes - 2xlrm15 vindicator would be fine (unlike thunderbolt or atlas that would become too OP with more tubes). As of now, you could work around this problem by using lrm20 + lrm10 then you should be able to fire all missiles in one volley.


Edited 1: I derped on describing the ISIB's lrm boat stats.

Edited 2: I rechecked my build list on lrm boats, ISIB is actually just above average for a fast lrm boat.

Edited by CrimsonPhantom6sg062, 01 October 2021 - 03:44 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Absolutely love the new caustic..it's real, it's raw.. you can brawl, snipe, poke, nascar, hold.. don't even touch the smoke.. without the smoke (that you can't penetrate with thermal which is good) there isn't a lot of cover to maneuver and it gives some added cover for snipers and for lights as they run around. It's a masterpiece.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 October 2021 - 08:47 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 01 October 2021 - 05:44 AM, said:

Absolutely love the new caustic..it's real, it's raw.. you can brawl, snipe, poke, nascar, hold.. don't even touch the smoke.. without the smoke (that you can't penetrate with thermal which is good) there isn't a lot of cover to maneuver and it gives some added cover for snipers and for lights as they run around. It's a masterpiece. ������������

Not sure if serious... you know at 900m mechs are easy to see with thermal right?

You can't see details, but unless you are right next to outer map cover you are pretty easy to see and hit.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 01 October 2021 - 08:12 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 October 2021 - 08:11 AM, said:

Not sure if serious... you know at 900m mechs are easy to see with thermal right?

You can't see details, but unless you are right next to outer map cover you are pretty easy to see and hit.

I'm serious.. love the map. Some of the smoke is hot.. you can't see through hot smoke with thermal..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 October 2021 - 08:48 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

DAEDALOS513, on 01 October 2021 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'm serious.. love the map. Some of the smoke is hot.. you can't see through hot smoke with thermal..

I'm surprised considering its much more favorable for snipers compared to HPG.

I would appreciate better visibility so we don't have to rely on thermals. Leave the hot smoke that you can't see through, but the general haze that makes long range mechs invisible to the naked eye but show up as a black blobs should go IMO. Also would appreciate some taller and broader cover near the middle.

[DAEDALOS513]

Gas Guzzler, on 01 October 2021 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'm surprised considering its much more favorable for snipers compared to HPG.

I would appreciate better visibility so we don't have to rely on thermals. Leave the hot smoke that you can't see through, but the general haze that makes long range mechs invisible to the naked eye but show up as a black blobs should go IMO. Also would appreciate some taller and broader cover near the middle.

Hmm, I think Caustic is not more favourable to snipers because unlike on HPG, the flanks on Caustic are wide open where you can get rushed by lights and mediums that can safely traverse the edges of the map to get to the sniper(s).. whereas on HPG you are high up on a wall (with cover) which is accessible only by ramps.. you even needs jets to cross over certain parts of the walls, limiting the number of ramps you can use to get to the sniper if you don't have jets. I feel pretty safe on hpg holding one spot all match long to snipe, snipe, snipe away.. wheres on Caustic, if your team moves and you don't, you are screwed. Being on lower ground is a major disadvantage to sniping than on HPG.

Normally I don't like haze (like on Bog) but on this map i love the way it looks.. very dramatic. The smoke forces you to be very deliberate with your movements.. it's an adrenaline rush moving from cover to cover cuz you could find yourself face to face with a brawler at any moment due to the smoke.

Every map has a predictable pattern to it where matches play out in certain grids, or there are certain power positions that are strong.. with this map, man.. it's unpredictable and anything goes. It's hard core and I love it.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 01 October 2021 - 05:03 PM.

[snakeman5150]

pattonesque, on 17 September 2021 - 05:01 PM, said:

Wasn’t supposed to have it in the first place, it was a recent bug

My issue is I paid money for my DWF-P(I) for ECM. I will never spend money on new mechs again. This is the third time I bought mechs and they have changed them to what I would not have spent money on.

[pattonesque]

snakeman5150, on 02 October 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

My issue is I paid money for my DWF-P(I) for ECM. I will never spend money on new mechs again. This is the third time I bought mechs and they have changed them to what I would not have spent money on.

In this case I would contact support. they're usually pretty good about this sort of thing

also don't spend real money on non-hero mechs!

[The6thMessenger]

snakeman5150, on 02 October 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

My issue is I paid money for my DWF-P(I) for ECM. I will never spend money on new mechs again. This is the third time I bought mechs and they have changed them to what I would not have spent money on.

This is honestly why I'm wary in paying mechs. Last mechs I bought with money are Kaiju and K9 because I made a promise.

Other than that, I don't want to pay for any mechs, because it's often about their performance, and concerning balance it's a cycle that never stops.

[C337Skymaster]

Horseman, on 23 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

If scaling the mode back and cutting out features counts as "very little". In some ways, FP was worse off after the "Year of Faction Play" than before it.

Oh, is THAT when that happened? I thought that happened the next year. I remember all that, I just never associated it with the PR stunt.

Horseman, on 23 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Restricting them with little to no explanation. Not everyone is a lore buff like you, and we get new players who have ZERO knowledge of the BT/MW franchise - down to the point of being unable to tell apart IS and Clan mechs.

See, I've only become a "lore buff" since playing MWO, and needing some sort of story to justify its existence. Prior to this, the story built into the various games was sufficient (and very interesting). I was bored with what little content was included in MWO after a month or so, and started learning the background to try and keep this lame pile-o-dung even mildly interesting, since newer computers can't play any of the actually GOOD Mechwarrior games. This is why the single biggest source of excitement in this game was going to be the real-time progression (so it was going to take 10 actual years to get from the Clan Invasion to the Refusal War, and it would literally have been 2030-2032 (depending if MWO started in 3047 or 3049) by the time the game got to the FedCom Civil War. That would have been AMAZING, would have given them the opportunity to include daily news bulletins covering all the major events from all the books as they happened, as well as slowly rolling out new tech as it hit the market, making it available in limited amounts at first, until in-game production could be scaled up, making the item available for more and more people. This would also have negated the need to balance old and new tech, because old tech would naturally be replaced by newer and better tech.

Also, there's an entire splash screen intro and beginner's tutorial for brand new accounts (which I, too, had forgotten about, until I started a 2nd account at the start of COVID). That is exactly the place to explain all of the beginner's mechanics of how faction-picking and trial 'mechs work, etc. There's absolutely no reason to drop anyone in blind and expect them to just "figure it out", any more than we already do.

The reason I don't play Halo, and never even gave it a chance? Because I saw my brother-in-law's nephews playing against each other, 1v1, with some sort of infinite respawn, and it looked like the dumbest thing in the world. One would kill the other, who would respawn and kill the first, and back and forth it went, because when one would respawn, they'd be fresh against their damaged opponent. There was no objective, no progression, no story, no point. If that's what people see when they come into MWO, then it's no wonder we can't retain players. We need to introduce them to the Lore, and let them feel like they're part of the greater universe as a whole, in order to keep them interested past a couple months of pointless repetition.

Horseman, on 23 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

To every mech in their mostly non-viable stock loadouts.

So firstly, I play all my 'mechs in a TT configuration (all the stock builds that made it into MWO as well as some that didn't, but for the sake of this example, should have). I was climbing the tiers until the Cauldron's weapon "balance" pass, so stock builds are viable with TT equipment values, and we should return to something a bit closer to those.

Secondly, the fact that stock builds took such a big hit after the balance proves that it went too far in promoting Comp builds and punishing creative experimentation (or being broke after buying a 'mech and being forced to run it as-is for a couple matches to earn reconfig money).

Thirdly, familiarization with stock loadouts by playing one or two matches in that configuration will give players an appreciation for what certain 'mechs were famous for. Stalkers were famous for LRMs, high firepower AND OVERHEATING. Yes, that's part of their fame, for better or for worse.

Ultimately: stock builds were NOT "mostly non-viable" until the Cauldron started messing about with the numbers. They worked quite well if you had a mouse with enough buttons and gave it more than a half-a-chance. Some stock builds (especially the Clan ones) are actually a lot of fun! And I've been getting better with my 100% stock free Atlas-D, since I won it in that event. I can actually do semi-decently if I wait to brawl until I've run out of LRM ammo, first.

Horseman, on 23 September 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Lower arm actuators only matter for omnimechs and are blocked by certain weapon selections. Hand actuators don't matter even for omnimechs.

Go play one match in each Clan Trial 'mech, and you'll see what I mean. I'm well aware of the weapon-type restrictions, but those don't apply in these cases. Lower Arm Actuators provide arms with lateral movement, and hand actuators compound that lateral movement. It's all additive. If an Arm does 5 degrees, then a Hand does 5, and the other arm and hand do another 5 degrees each, for a total of 20 degrees of extra movement side-to-side (or whatever the actual numbers are). The Stormcrow trial 'mech has one dead arm, another arm with a slew of lasers, and torso LRMs, but no actuators, which locks the arms straight forward, and completely negates their purpose in the build by not being able to track a target and assist with target locks. The Warhawk-C also has a Lower Arm Actuator on the Pulse Laser arm, which was not included in the trial build, and would help make the 'mech more accurate since ALL of its weapons are arm-mounted.

[C337Skymaster]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 September 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

Just stop and get help dude.

That's a very ******* thing to say. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Gas Guzzler, on 28 September 2021 - 09:40 AM, said:

Are you missing that virtually every MechWarrior game has strayed from the stuff you are talking about? And they are very much games based on BattleTech. This obsession with this online PVP game being identical to BattleTech lore is just wrong. If you want this crap that you keep talking about, mod MW5 so you have pay for ammo and for different ammo qualities (like how there is different quality weapons) and go to town and enjoy yourself. Mod MW5 so you basically can't get an Annihilator and whatever mech availability changes that you want to make. Requesting to add features like that that just makes the game more punishing to players is sadistic, and nobody wants that. This game should be more focused on the PVP experience but with the BattleTech "setting". Not making it into a whole mechlab economy simulator on top of that to give some players an advantage over others. Especially the old farts that have more then enough money to buy premium ammo regularly while the newer players still building up their mechbays have to buy bad ammo to get by. That's a terrible idea for a multiplayer game, and is really showing your lack of understanding of how to make an enjoyable multiplayer game.

Take that crap to PVE games where it belongs.

I'm not missing anything, but it seems like you might be, so allow me to enlighten you:

This game started life as a 100% 1:1 copy of all the statistics from the TT record sheets. It has since undergone changes in an effort to "balance" it (something that is not possible in an online PvP game. It just isn't. Don't try to claim that an end state of perfect balance even exists, because you're just lying to yourself and everyone else). This game started life with a promise of game-time progressing 1:1 with real-time, giving purpose to the advancement of technology, the development of new 'mech chassis, and giving a platform through which to relay the story of the universe as it happens. This game also started life with the promise of being able to travel from planet to planet, acquiring the resources necessary to keep your 'mech and/or unit patched up and functional. Just because PGI lied through their teeth and turned their backs on us all, doesn't mean we get to lie down and stop advocating for the game we were promised 10 years ago, and which we were ACTUALLY excited for, and thought we were funding.

I'm trying to advocate for a return to "Vanilla MWO" and taking a different approach at this so-called "balance", attacking different game mechanics that incorporate key features that are supposed to exist in the simulated universe, such as aiming difficulty, performance penalties for accumulating too much heat, balance mechanics preventing everyone running the #1 Meta 'mech in every game, all the time, etc. (Seeing the same 12 'mechs in a faction match coming at you is not only frustrating, but it's boring as hell. It's actually exciting to see rare 'mechs, because they're rare. It'd be nice for the 'mechs that are SUPPOSED to be rare, to be the actual rare 'mechs).

I'm an "old fart" with too many CB. I'm literally BEGGING for something to spend CB on. Premium 'mechs that give a CB boost? Pointless. Worthless. I actually avoid running them because I'm sick of earning so many CB. I avoid premium time unless I'm focusing on a 'mech that needs skill points. This game is pointless, and I'm trying to breathe new interest and new life into it by suggesting new mechanics that return it to the story from which it sprung. I seriously think this game would be more interesting if players could only afford one or two 'mechs at a time, and had to work towards affording and finding a new 'mech if they were bored with their current one, but meanwhile have the opportunity to take contracts, travel to planets, and do things that THEIR 'mech specializes in. (Urbanmechs, Annihilators, and Supernovas, for example: all dedicated point-defense 'mechs. Not meant to be hiking across open ground looking for a fight).

I'm sick and tired of people telling me to "just go play MW5". That's defeatist, and ignores the fact that there are ways to improve THIS game to bring the story of Battletech into it, and make it a more enjoyable role-playing experience that will engage players for more than the time it takes for them to level up their first dozen or so 'mechs. Once you've done the "mastery" thing a dozen times or so, this game has been beat, and there's no point to playing it, anymore. That's not good for player retention. If it wasn't for the constant "free stuff", I'd have given it up when HBS Battletech came out and never gone back. As it is, I play the events to get anything MC-related, and then go back to HBS until the next event rolls around.

The "Battletech Setting" is BS without the Battletech STORY that goes with it. It's just a reskinned Halo, or Call of Duty, all of which are completely asinine without a story to drive the gameplay. I watched my brother-in-law's nephews playing Halo 1v1, and without any of that game's story to back up what they were doing, it looked like the dumbest thing ever, and I swore off the entire franchise as idiotic. It's only within the last year or so that someone pointed out there's actually a story to that game and I might enjoy it. I'm trying my damndest to prevent the same thing happening to Battletech through MWO.

[C337Skymaster]

snakeman5150, on 02 October 2021 - 02:35 PM, said:

My issue is I paid money for my DWF-P(I) for ECM. I will never spend money on new mechs again. This is the third time I bought mechs and they have changed them to what I would not have spent money on.

At this stage in the game, unless you actually like the paint scheme or want the bragging rights that go with the chassis identifier, there is no reason to put any money into the game at all. There are enough events with MC rewards, and enough half-off sales of various MC-priced items, that you can earn what you need to buy what you want. If you're feeling charitable, and want to support PGI, then buy something, but consider it a charitable donation, or else you'll be pissed at your purchase at some point in the future.

[C337Skymaster]

Horseman, on 28 September 2021 - 02:58 PM, said:

Yup, probably worth giving this a watch:

MWO could have been the immersive sim he so covets - if the call to make it so has been made early into development. It did not, and expecting the game to suddenly switch gears to become it is borderline delusional. As a F2P game, it needs to take player retention into account and causing another mass exodus is not something PGI would knowingly do.

The trouble is, everything I'm asking for? Was proposed by Russ Bullock, himself, back in 2011. Then, when it was "too hard", it was quietly swept under the rug, and we were left with this half-developed "minimum viable product" that everyone seems so quick to defend, today...

[John Bronco]

C337Skymaster, on 03 October 2021 - 07:53 PM, said:

The "Battletech Setting" is BS without the Battletech STORY that goes with it. It's just a reskinned Halo, or Call of Duty, all of which are completely asinine without a story to drive the gameplay.

Those all have some semblance of a story, but even if they didn't they would still be popular because the reason people play PvP games is because the gameplay is compelling.

The Mechwarrior PvP setting is customizable mechs fighting other mechs, and that is more than enough to connect it to Battletech, and is massively different than Halo or CoD gameplay.

If you want the lip service that a single player campaign can give to a story you can...yes, play MW5.

Edited by John Bronco, 03 October 2021 - 08:38 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

John Bronco, on 03 October 2021 - 08:38 PM, said:

Those all have some semblance of a story, but even if they didn't they would still be popular because the reason people play PvP games is because the gameplay is compelling.

The Mechwarrior PvP setting is customizable mechs fighting other mechs, and that is more than enough to connect it to Battletech, and is massively different than Halo or CoD gameplay.

If you want the lip service that a single player campaign can give to a story you can...yes, play MW5.

The lack of any connection to the backstory of the franchise is why we have people in this game insisting that a Clan ERPPC and Inner Sphere ERPPC should be the same, or that Clan and IS XL engines should be the same. Without that connection to why things are the way they are, they don't understand the differences, and demand the entire erasure of any lore or flavor the game has beyond a HUD color difference. I've been really impressed with 2012 PGI's attempts at creating this game, and really frustrated at all the deviations I've seen since in the name of "balance" or "comp" or "new players who don't understand why things are different". That's not a reason to make them the same, that's a reason to explain why they're different. And not "because the source material was horribly unbalanced", but "because the developers of this technology had 300 years of relative peace and isolation in which to continue progressing it, while the users of this other technology killed off all their developers and a lot of their mechanics over that same period, and lost the knowledge and equipment for making and repairing the more advanced stuff".

[pattonesque]

C337Skymaster, on 04 October 2021 - 02:46 AM, said:

The lack of any connection to the backstory of the franchise is why we have people in this game insisting that a Clan ERPPC and Inner Sphere ERPPC should be the same, or that Clan and IS XL engines should be the same.

no one in charge of balance is saying these things

[LowBob2000]

@C337Skymaster

Don't try to discuss your opinions about how the game could be changed/evolved on this forum. There will always be fanboys who attack you on a personal level. In the end it is a dead game with a hardcore but small fanbase and no one would invest a substantial amount of time/money in any "real" changes (avg player count decrease again since May https://steamcharts.com/app/342200). So don't invest your time into this discussion, its simple not worth it.

Edited by LowBob2000, 04 October 2021 - 06:40 AM.