62 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

JediPanther, on 01 October 2021 - 01:31 PM, said:

People should be targeting the legs any way. Not just on the giant ct ***** of a mech jenner but against all the lights' legs since that makes them only go 40-50kph and if you can't kill a legged light going that slow well you've got more problems than the size of a light mech.

They don't because some people just like things 'simple.'
In this case if they see you should shoot the CT of bigger Mechs, they go for CT on all the Mechs even if you tell them 'aim for legs.'
I tried. Tried a few times during this event. Too rarely do people listen.
One of several pieces of the overall problem in online games.

[Scythe Kagato]

Make them smaller? Sure. Make them crushable, though. If some pokey-dokey Locust wants to try to facehug a massive mech, then it needs to pay the price.

[Blood Rose]

Slight warning to Light pilots: If your already damaged then circling between the assault your bothering and the friendly assault supporting you is not a good idea

[PocketYoda]

I'm positive they should be bigger..

[martian]

Scythe Kagato, on 01 October 2021 - 06:39 PM, said:

Make them smaller? Sure. Make them crushable, though. If some pokey-dokey Locust wants to try to facehug a massive mech, then it needs to pay the price.

There have never been physical attacks like punches or kicks in MWO and almost certainly they will never be.

[pattonesque]

MechaGnome, on 04 October 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

I'm positive they should be bigger..

most of them are the right size. a few of them should be smaller. Making them bigger would result in their existing position as the class with the lowest win rate and average match score getting worse.

[Bamboozle Gold]

martian, on 04 October 2021 - 07:26 AM, said:

There have never been physical attacks like punches or kicks in MWO and almost certainly they will never be.

This was a bad idea. But I think death-from-above and punching could work in MWO, as mechanics.

[martian]

Bamboozle Gold, on 04 October 2021 - 11:43 PM, said:

This was a bad idea. But I think death-from-above and punching could work in MWO, as mechanics.

I think that in this phase of the MWO life cycle it is too late for that.

[Bamboozle Gold]

Yeah, you're right. But for MWO2 maybe

[Blood Rose]

pattonesque, on 04 October 2021 - 07:28 AM, said:

most of them are the right size. a few of them should be smaller. Making them bigger would result in their existing position as the class with the lowest win rate and average match score getting worse.

Actually, they are incorrectly sized. Square Cube Law means that the size difference between a 20 tonner and a 100 tonner should not be that much, buuuttttt....

MechaGnome, on 04 October 2021 - 01:18 AM, said:

I'm positive they should be bigger..

Lights are actually the correct size, its other weight classes that should be smaller. Most mechs above the Light class are oversized. its for appearances, obviously, but they are a bit big. That said, the maps feel more like COD maps, and the sense of scale is all out of whack (Canyon Networks canyons are nearly as deep as the Grand Canyon) so people just roll with it.

Anyway, I need some advice on running an SRM Javelin.

[martian]

Bamboozle Gold, on 05 October 2021 - 04:13 AM, said:

Yeah, you're right. But for MWO2 maybe

MWO2?

Would you re-buy all your 'Mechs (including Hero 'Mechs and other similar 'Mechs bought for cash), your colours, patterns, decals, cockpit items, etc.?

[Curccu]

martian, on 07 October 2021 - 08:06 AM, said:

MWO2?

Would you re-buy all your 'Mechs (including Hero 'Mechs and other similar 'Mechs bought for cash), your colours, patterns, decals, cockpit items, etc.?

MWO2 sure. Developed by Piranhas current crew, no.

[martian]

Curccu, on 07 October 2021 - 09:17 AM, said:

MWO2 sure. Developed by Piranhas current crew, no.

The PGI's MWO licence ends in 2025 (unless renewed). So until then we are stuck with PGI.

[Curccu]

martian, on 07 October 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

The PGI's MWO licence ends in 2025 (unless renewed). So until then we are stuck with PGI.

Yes we are.. or are we stuck with company that bought PGI? and I don't think PGI is going for MWO 2, but hey who knows... and is there gonna be another new mechwarrior pvp capable game ever? maybe, maybe not.

[Ihlrath]

So just returning after about a 6 or so months off and seeing that my beloved lights got a bit of love?

Used to running my stealth Locust or the Urbie K9 with a RAC5 for lulz....

I stopped running lights for the most part earlier this year due to them being reduced to fodder with a lot of the original changes. What's got them back to being able to shred and not die when someone looks at them hard?

[Bamboozle Gold]

Ihlrath, on 07 October 2021 - 01:41 PM, said:

I stopped running lights for the most part earlier this year due to them being reduced to fodder with a lot of the original changes. What's got them back to being able to shred and not die when someone looks at them hard?

A fair few lights have got decent survivability quirks thanks to Cauldron making an effort to bring them up to par with the other weight classes. I'm personally also very much enjoying the 2x ammo and less overheat damage quirks that have been given out. That RAC5 Urbie K9 now benefits from having double the ammo for the same weight, which lets you put in secondary weapons or JJs or whatever.

[Jun Watarase]

Lights were incredibly useful when we had the old matchmaker where you could select the game modes you wanted to play. Being able to select conquest only is one of the things i really miss about the game.

Light mechs occupy a vital role in conquest matches, less so in the other game modes which basically boil down to "camp and snipe with laser vomit for 5 mins" on most maps.

Compare a game of River City on conquest vs any other game mode. On conquest, theres a huge incentive to sneak over to the other side and cap points which forces teams to move and changes the tactical situation to kepe things interesting. On all other game modes, everyone just camps around the SE corner with the upper level ramps for 5 mins or more till one team gets a sufficient advantage to actually move. There is no incentive whatsoever to go to another section of the map unless you are trying to prolong the game by hiding with an ECM mech.

Most people run heavies and assaults because they are the best at the usual QP matches, which boil down to massive laser vomit with the occasional PPC or Gauss build mixed in. Lights have much fewer builds available and dont fit well into the laser vomit firing line playstyle. Sure, you can sneak in and assassinate the occasional careless mech but you have to wait for an opportnity to present itself, and why wait when you can run laser vomit and start firing at maximum range right?

It doesnt help that running laser/ppc/gauss vomit of some kind is the easiest way to get a high score in QP either, on most maps. Grim Plexus is possibly the most popular map in QP (it almost always wins the vote when its available as an option) sitting at 1000 meters or so sniping lets you easily rack up a high score compared to trying to do anything else. Bringing some kind of laser/ppc/gauss vomit mech to QP is literally easy mode compared to using anything else because everyone else is too busy shooting the rest of your team to care about you and you get to live for most of the match racking up a high score. I run mostly brawl mechs in QP but when I bring something longer range, I can definately feel that its much easier to get a high score....and I can start firing at max range instead of waiting for teams to close.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 08 October 2021 - 10:20 AM.

[Requiemking]

Jun Watarase, on 08 October 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

Lights were incredibly useful when we had the old matchmaker where you could select the game modes you wanted to play. Being able to select conquest only is one of the things i really miss about the game.

Light mechs occupy a vital role in conquest matches, less so in the other game modes which basically boil down to "camp and snipe with laser vomit for 5 mins" on most maps.

Compare a game of River City on conquest vs any other game mode. On conquest, theres a huge incentive to sneak over to the other side and cap points which forces teams to move and changes the tactical situation to kepe things interesting. On all other game modes, everyone just camps around the SE corner with the upper level ramps for 5 mins or more till one team gets a sufficient advantage to actually move. There is no incentive whatsoever to go to another section of the map unless you are trying to prolong the game by hiding with an ECM mech.

Most people run heavies and assaults because they are the best at the usual QP matches, which boil down to massive laser vomit with the occasional PPC or Gauss build mixed in. Lights have much fewer builds available and dont fit well into the laser vomit firing line playstyle. Sure, you can sneak in and assassinate the occasional careless mech but you have to wait for an opportnity to present itself, and why wait when you can run laser vomit and start firing at maximum range right?

It doesnt help that running laser/ppc/gauss vomit of some kind is the easiest way to get a high score in QP either, on most maps. Grim Plexus is possibly the most popular map in QP (it almost always wins the vote when its available as an option) sitting at 1000 meters or so sniping lets you easily rack up a high score compared to trying to do anything else. Bringing some kind of laser/ppc/gauss vomit mech to QP is literally easy mode compared to using anything else because everyone else is too busy shooting the rest of your team to care about you and you get to live for most of the match racking up a high score. I run mostly brawl mechs in QP but when I bring something longer range, I can definately feel that its much easier to get a high score....and I can start firing at max range instead of waiting for teams to close.

Except you are forgetting one slight problem. Nobody played Lights back then either because back then, just like it is now, the pay for doing objectives was horrendous. Seriously, you could spend the entire game capping points and singlehandedly win the day for your team, yet you'd still get payed less than some random Assault who sprayed 500 damage across three different mechs. The fact of the matter is, unless things get changed to where objectives are given greater weight in the scoring system than they are now and/or combat is given less weight, people are always going to pick whatever is going to make the most Cbills, because without Cbills, you can't do anything with the Mechlab nor can you buy new mechs.

[Jun Watarase]

Requiemking, on 08 October 2021 - 11:38 AM, said:

Except you are forgetting one slight problem. Nobody played Lights back then either because back then, just like it is now, the pay for doing objectives was horrendous. Seriously, you could spend the entire game capping points and singlehandedly win the day for your team, yet you'd still get payed less than some random Assault who sprayed 500 damage across three different mechs. The fact of the matter is, unless things get changed to where objectives are given greater weight in the scoring system than they are now and/or combat is given less weight, people are always going to pick whatever is going to make the most Cbills, because without Cbills, you can't do anything with the Mechlab nor can you buy new mechs.

The point about playing lights in conquest wasnt for the rewards but for the ability to move around the map and cap points.

Yes, if you just cap, you get no rewards. But being able to sneak over to the other side and grab a cap point to force the enemy to move out of their firing line had great tactical benefits. It also encouraged smaller, mobile fights centered around objectives (the cap points) rather than sitting for 5 minutes trading the same laser vomit alphas over the same stretch of no man's land. Instead of just one firing line facing each other, you usually have 2 or 3 smaller groups skirmishing over the cap points.

Its much more unpredictable. Even maps like polar and alpine play decently because teams are forced to move around rather than just sit in this huge static firing line for 90% of the match,

Edited by Jun Watarase, 08 October 2021 - 11:46 AM.

[Requiemking]

Jun Watarase, on 08 October 2021 - 11:44 AM, said:

The point about playing lights in conquest wasnt for the rewards but for the ability to move around the map and cap points.

Yes, if you just cap, you get no rewards. But being able to sneak over to the other side and grab a cap point to force the enemy to move out of their firing line had great tactical benefits. It also encouraged smaller, mobile fights centered around objectives (the cap points) rather than sitting for 5 minutes trading the same laser vomit alphas over the same stretch of no man's land. Instead of just one firing line facing each other, you usually have 2 or 3 smaller groups skirmishing over the cap points.

Its much more unpredictable. Even maps like polar and alpine play decently because teams are forced to move around rather than just sit in this huge static firing line for 90% of the match,

That doesn't matter. If people actually want interesting, team oriented fights, they'd go to Faction play. People play QP to CBill grind and pub stomp, and capping points in a Light mech won't get either of those. Again, until the rewards system is changed to actually make completing objectives a viable way to earn Cbills, nobody is going to want to play conquest or any other objective heavy mode in QP and they are not going to want to play Lights.

Edited by Requiemking, 08 October 2021 - 12:11 PM.