15 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

"I thought that stealth armour was meant to make you not show up at all on thermal or night vision? If what you're saying is true then stealth armour is completely worthless" -Dogstar

From the "Probes as Uav" Thread I did some testing. My for test I decided not on hard counters i.e. just shooting the mech with weapons but using things that "detect" the stealth mech aka Making IT HAVE THE RED BOX.

Using the help of my bro and his very old archaic laptop we tested Stealth in all three modes using the rvn 3l with this set up:of a bap and max sensors for the first run with 3ml srm 4 build with stealth armor and all the nodes for ecm/stealth. No tcs were used.

We tested for the first run what switching ecm and uav does to detect stealth mechs. Since the most common complaint is that a stealth sob killed your butt from being we did nearly next to each other in spacing. As show in the frakenstien mess of my lack of photoshop-ery it does nothing. However switching vision modes it is very easily plain to spot the stealth mech.

Our second run switched maps and spacing as well as adding tag and narc to the test again;without the nark upgrade nodes as I forgot to add them. Once more the stealth mech is plainly visible in the vision modes.

[LordNothing]

the best counter for stealth is the ppc. this disrupts the ecm and forces stealth to go into cd, which lasts several seconds. repeat as necessary until it dies.

[caravann]

The easiest way to detect a stealth is a mech who has no tag.

Because it has no tag it is no brain that it is a stealth mech.

PPC counter but generally speaking shooting at the mech forces the stealth to take offensive actions who will disable the stealth.

Stealth mechs are heavy for what equipment they are allowed to carry, with only standard armor and reduced critical slots and no space in the legs and in need of extra standard heatsinks or use double heatsinks, in case of using double the mech is forced to use oversized engines of 250 on mechs who has no need to carry the engine based on hardpoints and guns and position.

A flea gains the advantages of an oversized engine because it has Masc and topspeed of 165kph but when compared to a Raven it will never be able to compete with any mech with the speed of 95-100kph as it is up against medium mechs and the engine should be dropped even further as it has no meaningful impact which results into the use of standard heatsinks. The dropped engine will have a good effect on the battlefield as the Raven will be slower than many tankier mechs and preventing out of position, the oversized engine had no good effect at all since it will not be able to run away from interceptions of lighter mechs with better close range effectiveness.

The stealth reduces the profile of faster mechs in motion. Experienced players do not tell much if the mech has stealth or not since a mech who has no tag is a stealth and even if thermal and night vision makes it easier to spot the mech it is harder to notice the tag.

On maps with narrow and close encounters the stealth mech will be trading damage from both sides if the map provide the need of night vision and thermal no side can tell what side the stealth mech is on. Most do not use night vision or thermals since them can spike up the light on the screen and bypass the use of it. Some claim that they do not like a map because them can not see through the fog but again it is because they can not see the tags inside the thermal or night vision as easy and a mech with stealth is seen through sensors with a fully mastered skill tree.

Based on the screen the player is using, what a spectator is able to see can be an entire different experience of the player.

Nwo is what I can tell designed to use 16:9 on a HD-ready,

Is stealth useful? Most likely not because what you trade for the stealth is AMS and stacks of AMS and teamplayers working together makes the stealth mech using other players as shields while having reduced armor who reduces the team's survival. But then what else is the use of IS mechs. Almost any clan mech can have ECM and armor and since the game is based on lore IS mechs didn't had ECM since it was a clan-tech them salvaged to create target practice mechs like the Raven to stack higher amount of tonnage on the assault mechs by removing unnecessary equipment to secondary objectives.

Inner sphere understood that playing clanner was merely a smokescreen since only the elite had remodified mechs and the bulk of all clan mercenaries were of standard models. Using stealth mech disabling the ability to counter and the use of ecm altogether.

The technology we know as stealth in mwo is useful for jetplanes or mechs with the feature of flying. Jetplanes are intercepted by interplanetary missiles with speed at 6x times faster than the jetplane. Drones are able to fly faster while the use of stealth is to prevent interplanetary missiles from shooting down all drones before they reached their destination. Stealth as we know in mwo is for planetary interceptors and base defenses. Some mechs are anti-aircraft platforms like the Jaegermech and most if not all weapons are designed behind jetplanes, from the rotary to the fire and forget[ LRM] to the guided SRM to the jump...jetengines.

Stealth can be considered an option and the higher amount of mechanics is a quantity of content and quality of the product.

[The6thMessenger]

LordNothing, on 08 October 2021 - 08:12 PM, said:

the best counter for stealth is the ppc. this disrupts the ecm and forces stealth to go into cd, which lasts several seconds. repeat as necessary until it dies.

That's neat and all, but that actually requires hitting the target.

MW5 has this neat effect that disruption happens in an area, that would actually make PPC useful aside from basic PPFLD.

[Curccu]

The6thMessenger, on 09 October 2021 - 12:48 AM, said:

That's neat and all, but that actually requires hitting the target.

It's not gonna die if you are not gonna hit it, kinda must to hit things in this game to win.

caravann, on 08 October 2021 - 09:47 PM, said:

The easiest way to detect a stealth is a mech who has no tag.

Because it has no tag it is no brain that it is a stealth mech.

What does it matter if it has stealth or not if you already can see it? Isn't point of the stealth.... stealth? harder to see (yes not get missiled also).

[Dogstar]

@JediPanther

I'm assuming that the stealth armor in your friends mech was active when trying to view it using thermal/nightvision?

If so then, as I said before, stealth armor is basically useless, it's a massive penalty in slots for no gain at all, especially if you consider that when it's on you can't lock on to other mechs at any distance and that it's counteracted by a variety of means.

I'm sure that when stealth armor was introduced it was meant to make you completely invisible to anyone using night vision or thermal. Does anyone else remember this?

Edited by Dogstar, 09 October 2021 - 03:09 AM.

[Curccu]

Dogstar, on 09 October 2021 - 03:09 AM, said:

@JediPanther

I'm assuming that the stealth armor in your friends mech was active when trying to view it using thermal/nightvision?

If so then, as I said before, stealth armor is basically useless, it's a massive penalty in slots for no gain at all, especially if you consider that when it's on you can't lock on to other mechs at any distance and that it's counteracted by a variety of means.

I'm sure that when stealth armor was introduced it was meant to make you completely invisible to anyone using night vision or thermal. Does anyone else remember this?

Basically useless yes if you are standing 27m away or fully exposed on a hill ~300m away, make a small peek shoot that narc and be gone, I have done loads of this in CMD-2D Narc & Stealth.
Narc will lock the enemy, you don't have to.

Or stand next to some wall 500-700m away from battle and slam enemies with gauss and they have pretty hard time spotting exactly where that mech is. Got some good XP on this on receiving end on WF
Gauss will hurt or kill, no lock required.

What I do agree that Stealth is useless on mechs that produce loads of heat, Thus Narc & Gauss builds only IMO.

EDIT: OP could have written all those longer range pics is stealth active in them or not.

Edited by Curccu, 09 October 2021 - 03:59 AM.

[Escef]

Can you see a stealth mech in thermal? Yes. Does it blend into the background painfully well on some maps that way? Yes. Most notably on Manifold.

[1453 R]

Stealth has never been about being invisible. It's always been about avoiding getting redbox'd. If you want Invisible, you need the Chameleon LPS. And let's face it - with how often people screech about stealth armor, giving folks the Chameleon too would be...well.

The forum would drown in tears.

[JediPanther]

Dogstar, on 09 October 2021 - 03:09 AM, said:

@JediPanther

I'm assuming that the stealth armor in your friends mech was active when trying to view it using thermal/nightvision?

If so then, as I said before, stealth armor is basically useless, it's a massive penalty in slots for no gain at all, especially if you consider that when it's on you can't lock on to other mechs at any distance and that it's counteracted by a variety of means.

I'm sure that when stealth armor was introduced it was meant to make you completely invisible to anyone using night vision or thermal. Does anyone else remember this?

Stealth's only purpose is to make your mech not automatically detect it as an enemy mech thus giving it the red target box on hud. To copy what 1453 said: Stealth has never been about being invisible. It's always been about avoiding getting redbox'd.

Yes my bro did have stealth active. It wasn't until we discovered that narc turns it off that I thought of redoing the narc and tag tests later when I have time. As my bro is special ed he could have been toggling ecm instead of the stealth thinking the ecm was stealth. Counters aside as it is my intention and thus proven by the first six screen shots that Steath mechs are plainly visible in normal,thermal and night vision modes; you only need to look for it.

The whole point of stealth in mwo is to make your mech harder to spot and as simple thing as not having the red target box has shown in lower tiers, that is more than enough that mwo doesn't need metal gear or predator style optical camo. Look at the range of tag on the raven. 800m and over. Even with just ecm from a distenct you could get away with taging some one and they could think it was a stealth mech. Too bad the tag laser is visible too in normal mode. Just another here-i-am-shoot-me thing in mwo.

[PocketYoda]

I've never really had issues with Stealth, personally i lose to much gear to use it. but its not hard to see a stealth mech is not part of your team..

I do feel i'm lucky to be able to tell the difference, it seems many cannot?

Edited by MechaGnome, 10 October 2021 - 03:08 AM.

[Ihlrath]

Seems to work as intended for my little Murder Chicken Pirate Bane......

[Curccu]

JediPanther, on 09 October 2021 - 01:02 PM, said:

Look at the range of tag on the raven. 800m and over.

327 meters actually, you are missing the shot between legs in 1st long range image, later images show real range 327 meters.

[JediPanther]

Curccu, on 10 October 2021 - 11:19 AM, said:

327 meters actually, you are missing the shot between legs in 1st long range image, later images show real range 327 meters.

Partly correct as 847m as shown on the weapon hud of the raven. I didn't say I meant the hud of it but I did. 327m was the range between the two rvns.

[FLG 01]

Escef, on 09 October 2021 - 04:08 AM, said:

Can you see a stealth mech in thermal? Yes. Does it blend into the background painfully well on some maps that way? Yes. Most notably on Manifold.

... which is nice but fortunately not game breaking. Most of my ECM Mechs run with stealth armour, and it seems to be a niche tech for most players too. But that is ok since it is a viable one.

It just can be annoying to play against, but then .. that's the charm of that niche.

[Felbombling]

The human eye works best on detecting movement, being a development from early hunting days. If you are in a stealth Mech and the enemy turns towards you... stand still. So long as you have a camo scheme that blends into the terrain behind you, and depending on range, you should be safe from detection. Also, if you are in a pack of Mechs and you have stealth while your teammates do not, who do you think will be getting shot at? The enemy sees five Mechs, four of which he can lock up. Hmmm...

You give up a lot in the way of tonnage/slots/weapons to carry and activate stealth armour, so if you do, set up for your role and embrace it fully. Spec into and carry consumables. Leverage the Beagle Active Probe into your build if you can afford the tonnage, especially on the Cyclops, since it has a sensor range boost already. Don't use Warhorns!! [Nothing ruins your stealthy attack like a set of bag-pipes going off right after you kill someone from behind.] Take a dark, broken camo pattern into battle to help you blend into terrain features behind you. They are your lifeline, as stated above in this post.

Most of all... have fun! The whole point of taking stealth armour is to be both ball-zy and devious!