125 replies to this topic

[MPhoenix]

Whoever thought letting groups drop in quick play was a good idea is a loon.

It's bad enough when a whole lance is one unit which has happened in 70% of the matches I've played in the past several days but this last match was ridiculous.
Six of the opfor were the same unit tag, half the opposing team.

I'm new to this game, barely out of cadet phase, so this is tier 5 quick play. As a newb I know I'm suppose to be matched with the other dregs and that's fine, I'm learning so that's to be expected.
But I've never played an online game where they allowed this kind of stacking of the deck. Even EQ wasn't this bad.

I've played desktop BattleTech since the mid 90's, I really wanted to enjoy this I mean piloting the mechs we had a figures should be fun.

Being repeatedly steamrolled in 12-1 matches is not fun nor interesting enough to want to continue. If it was just me dying regularly I'd say okay I suck but I'll get better. But 12-1 or 12-2 from team drops on a regular basis is not just me sucking.

Make it an option, a team vs team server or something but in quick play where the idea is drop in have a game and have fun it's toxic.

Oh well, I've had my say. After all these years playing MMOGs I don't expect anything to change, it rarely does.

[martian]

MPhoenix, on 20 October 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

Whoever thought letting groups drop in quick play was a good idea is a loon.

His name is Russ Bullock.

Use Twitter to contact him. He ignores this forums.

MPhoenix, on 20 October 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

It's bad enough when a whole lance is one unit which has happened in 70% of the matches I've played in the past several days but this last match was ridiculous.
Six of the opfor were the same unit tag, half the opposing team.

The official position of PGI is to force solo casual players to play against premade groups.

PGI even said that they know they solo players would opt out of this arrangement when given the opportunity ...

MPhoenix, on 20 October 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm new to this game, barely out of cadet phase, so this is tier 5 quick play. As a newb I know I'm suppose to be matched with the other dregs and that's fine, I'm learning so that's to be expected.
But I've never played an online game where they allowed this kind of stacking of the deck. Even EQ wasn't this bad.

I've played desktop BattleTech since the mid 90's, I really wanted to enjoy this I mean piloting the mechs we had a figures should be fun.

Being repeatedly steamrolled in 12-1 matches is not fun nor interesting enough to want to continue. If it was just me dying regularly I'd say okay I suck but I'll get better. But 12-1 or 12-2 from team drops on a regular basis is not just me sucking.

Make it an option, a team vs team server or something but in quick play where the idea is drop in have a game and have fun it's toxic.

Oh well, I've had my say. After all these years playing MMOGs I don't expect anything to change, it rarely does.

There is only one effective thing that you can do: If you do not like the game, stop playing or at least stop giving PGI your money. As a customer, this is your only effective defense.

[Curccu]

Out of my almost 80 games past week 50/50 as solo, groups haven't really decided winner of the game more than 10% of the games.
if someone gets 6 fellows to one team it's pure luck, could as well be against each other... personally haven't seen any game with more than 4 in same unit in a long time.

PS. We used to have group queue separated from solos but dropping playerbase few Years ago killed it, so thats why mixed queue.

edit: typo

Edited by Curccu, 21 October 2021 - 12:13 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Curccu, on 20 October 2021 - 11:50 PM, said:

Out of my almost 80 games past week 50/50 as solo, groups haven't really decided winner of the game more than 10% of the games.

if someone gets 6 fellows to one team it's pure luck, could as well be against each other... personally haven't seen any game with more than 4 in same unit in a long time.

Agreed on all points.

I have an Alt that I drop on in T4 and even seeing a 4man on one side vs no-names on the other the outcomes in the lower tier matches are completely unpredictable. Over 200 odd matches Groups in the lower tiers have such reduced level of impact it is not something I've noted as a major issue.

Now by contract you give me a T1 match and I can tell you with a solid level of accuracy who will win simple from the names on either side of the lobby and what groups (if any) are on which side. Of course there are some games that don't play out like that like anything however it's far more predictable than low tier ones - of that I am certain.

[Thorqemada]

martian, on 20 October 2021 - 11:46 PM, said:

His name is...

Many Names!

Lets say it this way - i think with utmost certainty that there is a part of the playerbase that is 100% supporting this Group/Solo Q merge and feel it is the best thing that happened to them since the invention of toast.

There are many different motivations why you care for a game...


Alternatives to this game exist if it must not be an arena shooter in HBS Battletech (has turn based PvP) and MW5 (has Co-Op PvE).

Edited by Thorqemada, 21 October 2021 - 12:27 AM.

[Brom96]

MPhoenix, on 20 October 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

Whoever thought letting groups drop in quick play was a good idea is a loon.

It's bad enough when a whole lance is one unit which has happened in 70% of the matches I've played in the past several days but this last match was ridiculous.
Six of the opfor were the same unit tag, half the opposing team.

I'm new to this game, barely out of cadet phase, so this is tier 5 quick play. As a newb I know I'm suppose to be matched with the other dregs and that's fine, I'm learning so that's to be expected.
But I've never played an online game where they allowed this kind of stacking of the deck. Even EQ wasn't this bad.

I've played desktop BattleTech since the mid 90's, I really wanted to enjoy this I mean piloting the mechs we had a figures should be fun.

Being repeatedly steamrolled in 12-1 matches is not fun nor interesting enough to want to continue. If it was just me dying regularly I'd say okay I suck but I'll get better. But 12-1 or 12-2 from team drops on a regular basis is not just me sucking.

Make it an option, a team vs team server or something but in quick play where the idea is drop in have a game and have fun it's toxic.

Oh well, I've had my say. After all these years playing MMOGs I don't expect anything to change, it rarely does.

I can imagine such teams wreaking havoc in tier 5 games. Especially if more ten 4 drop at once to club them seals... I mean newbs... I mean new players who we need to maintain the playerbase levels...

In higher tiers, there are excellent groups, and you know, when you see them in enemy team, that you have lost the game. Just get as much points as possible (your own teammates will be your main hindrance)and move to another game.

Then there are groups that are inept and danger to themselves. Their players are bellow the level of average solo player.

No matter which category it is, in many cases they do not communicate with the rest of the team, in some cases they do not follow the rest of the team, and they just play their own game within the game.

Ona personal level, I consider them detrimental. But that is what PGI decided, that they do not care about solo players, but will favor the groups instead. I take it as a challenge to beat the groups in their game and achieve more damage/points then their average.

[justcallme A S H]

In Tier 5, the groups are almost always Tier 5 as well. Sometimes Tier 4/3 depending.

Not Tier 1.

The casual low-tier groups are just that, low tier. They usually are not coordinated or sync'd builds etc.

I would encourage everyone to watch twitch streamers for a few weeks and see for yourself... They have little overall impact on games and the past 3 months I've been able to watch easy 15hrs+ a day (watching 4-5 streamers at once)

[B1zmark]

Groups are limited to 4 - it used to be 8 or 12 in the past. Groups are also limited by tonnage - you can't take 4 assault mechs in as a group - so the most annoying thing you'll come up against is 4 light/medium mechs all flanking.

What is a bigger deal though is that, as a solo player, even teams with no groups will lessen your impact on the game. MWO is a team game in every sense of the word. Reach out and find people and drop with them. You'll make some friend and have fun. You'll also find find that it's not really 4 guys in trench coats "destroying noobs". It's usually a bunch of dudes trying new mechs, using dumb builds and generally having fun.

MWO does suffer from the same issue that other games do (like eve online) and that is the developers have created open ended API's to track stats. I work in data day-to-day and understand the impact is has on organisations. Transparent information drives behaviours. In video games it results in a small subset of the player base constantly using optimised strategies and equipment to try and pump those stats up as high as possible.

You can spot these people from a mile away - they never drop solo and almost always in a heavy mech (the strongest all round weight class from a competitive perspective) and occasionally an assault mech. Try hard in public games is pretty bad for thje game overall because, as you've pointed out, it drives away new and learning players.

But overall the competitive scene in MWO has been massively Toxic and exclusive for a long time, and it's more prevalent than in any other game I've played that has a competitive scene. For some reason MWO seems to drive insecurity in people. Maybe its the age of the player base. No idea though.

[Gagis]

B1zmark, on 21 October 2021 - 01:46 AM, said:

But overall the competitive scene in MWO has been massively Toxic and exclusive for a long time

What, this is pretty much the most open and welcoming gaming community I've ever run into. O_o

[Saved By The Bell]

Endure, learn... And look Baraduls videos at first.

I was pretty ok from start, because I played much in 2-3-4 Mechs, where you have to start some missions again and again for many hours.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 21 October 2021 - 02:24 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

I've dropped a few matches the last couple o days again and groups..
well..

there where some competent groups, but most times it says nothing. quite a few groups are a tax/handycap to their team, tbh.
don't read too much into it. if you see a competent group, play around them - anything else: just ignore as best as you can.

[Pika]

I'd argue prior to this change it was far, far worse for player retention.

You finally convinced a friend to get into the game, you group up and you HAD to jump into the Group queue, and then drop against 12 man pre-mades all evening when your friend hasn't even learnt to shield or armour roll properly yet.

What do you think happened next? Not only did it piss off your friends who were trying their best to just learn the game, you'd piss off the rest of your team as you'd potentially bring masses of dead weight. A few of my friends did persevere, and a small handful remain; they do think that group queue crucible made them better players, and i'd agree, I remember going from group back to solo and being floored by the difference in player skill, but I'd never want it back.

I'd take this small groups in solo queue over how it used to be any day.

Edited by Pika, 21 October 2021 - 04:53 AM.

[UnPh4ZeD]

Allowing ~30% of a team to join as a group is aggressive but there isn't really a good option. If you kill the ability to play as a group you likely lose the most active players. I agree it sucks to play against a stack over and over but it sucks even more to sit in the lobby waiting forever for a match.

[GoodTry]

The problem isn't groups, it's that the game doesn't do any secondary team balancing once a match is put together other than sorting by tier. That means in practice the teams are mostly random, and all of the high-skill or low-skill players may end up on one side.

Groups make that problem slightly worse in that a group may have 4 players all with a high or low skill level. If so, then one side or the other is more likely to have too many high- or low-skill players. But the game could still compensate by assembling balanced teams based on the solo players, if they had a system in place to do so. Too bad they don't.

[Papaspud]

Whether you have the uber group or the can't play group on your side....teams in solo is wrong, there is a reason no one wanted to play group, and we brought that to solo. I personally wish they would put it back to the way it was, if there isn't enough people to play groups= so be it- We lose the handful of people that start, then quit, after they are rolled over and over. I know our TS is getting deserted, and less people are playing all the time.

Oh well, enjoy, I guess.

[Novakaine]

It's seriously not a team that causes the roll stomps.
It's superior tactics, cooperation and experience that does.
It's the simple fact that this something you learn with time.
It's not you verses another player it's you verses 12 other players.
There are plenty of discord servers and maybe a few teamspeak left to meet people and learn from.
The biggest disservice of this game comes from PGI itself not facilitating and encouraging teamplay.
And match maker cannot fit this sorry it just cannot.
A serious disservice that only leads to frustration and the pitifully low population we have today.
In a game a bit more complicated than candy crush.

Edited by Novakaine, 21 October 2021 - 06:03 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Large groups are almost always casual, and some are provocatively bad. As an example, most nights me and mine drop as a 4-man or multiple groups of various numbers. Looking at my stats and a few of my fellows, we have just as much of a chance to hinder the folks on our own team as to assist them to a win; more likely hinder of late. A two man of high skill players in good builds, or even a single one, will usually have far more impact on a match than most of the larger groups dropping in this game.

[Vlad Ward]

Team balance is an unstable equilibrium on the best of days. Lack of respawns may be "realistic" but ultimately makes the game trend sharply towards constant stomps. That's just MWO.

[RickySpanish]

GoodTry, on 21 October 2021 - 05:51 AM, said:

The problem isn't groups, it's that the game doesn't do any secondary team balancing once a match is put together other than sorting by tier. That means in practice the teams are mostly random, and all of the high-skill or low-skill players may end up on one side.

Groups make that problem slightly worse in that a group may have 4 players all with a high or low skill level. If so, then one side or the other is more likely to have too many high- or low-skill players. But the game could still compensate by assembling balanced teams based on the solo players, if they had a system in place to do so. Too bad they don't.

Vlad Ward, on 21 October 2021 - 06:13 AM, said:

Team balance is an unstable equilibrium on the best of days. Lack of respawns may be "realistic" but ultimately makes the game trend sharply towards constant stomps. That's just MWO.

These two posts sum it up, everything else is luck of the draw. The game has fundamentally bad design which more or less ensures stomps. I played a host of games recently and they were all VERY close games, but ended 6-12, 8-12 mostly. Why? Because even close games end up as rolls once one team begins to collapse even if they were neck and neck most of the fight. Add to that ****** post matchmaking balance and no respawns, and yeah games are often going to evolve this way regardless of groups.

[Flyby215]

MPhoenix, on 20 October 2021 - 11:32 PM, said:

Being repeatedly steamrolled in 12-1 matches is not fun nor interesting enough to want to continue. If it was just me dying regularly I'd say okay I suck but I'll get better. But 12-1 or 12-2 from team drops on a regular basis is not just me sucking.

I'd almost compare it to gambling. You play a lot of crappy games just to get that one, memorable, feel-good adrenaline rush awesome match that becomes the talk of the night.

As some are suggesting, if you could find a group of like-minded people it makes the games more enjoyable. I suppose this rings true for any activity. I would have left a long time ago if not for the people I play with.

Bud Crue, on 21 October 2021 - 06:04 AM, said:

Large groups are almost always casual, and some are provocatively bad. As an example, most nights me and mine drop as a 4-man or multiple groups of various numbers. Looking at my stats and a few of my fellows, we have just as much of a chance to hinder the folks on our own team as to assist them to a win; more likely hinder of late. A two man of high skill players in good builds, or even a single one, will usually have far more impact on a match than most of the larger groups dropping in this game.

I refuse to believe a Jester pilot like yourself could possibly be hindering their team.

Edit: Trying to avoid toxicity, removed [rant].

Edited by Flyby215, 21 October 2021 - 07:49 AM.