30 replies to this topic

[feeWAIVER]

In the upcoming patch:


MRM10:
Decreased cooldown to 3.9s (from 4.3s)

MRM20:
Decreased cooldown to 4.1s (from 4.3s)


Here's the problem.
I remember when they patched all the MRMs to share a cooldown. I said "ah cool", cuz at least they would share a cooldown. So if I can fit a 10 and a 20, or a 20 and a 30, or whatever- at least they would all have the same cooldown.

I don't even like to use MRMs because they're inaccurate and spammy, and they have a big cooldown.

So why not just give all MRM's the lowest cooldown across the board? In this case, I guess, 3.9.
It's fine, whatever, MRM's kinda suck anyways. Let's be honest.

[The6thMessenger]

I don't see the problem, MRMs are actually pretty awesome. MRM10s are the most awesome because it's basically a long-range SRM volley with tightly-packed missiles.

So far the only thing I don't see that much use is actually MRM20, and it's almost always paired with MRM40, else it's the 2x MRM30s.

If there is what I would want from MRMs, is more velocity, but it's just gratuitous at this point. Cooldown is pretty meh, the big ones are pretty useful for the hardpoint-starved, and it has a good alpha to boot, i don't think good CD is going to be balanced.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 18 October 2021 - 01:02 AM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The6thMessenger, on 17 October 2021 - 08:28 PM, said:

If there is what I would want from MRMs, is more velocity…

Then check out what they’re about to do on the Warhammer 7S in this quirk pass… 40% velocity boost to all weapons! Three torso missile hard points! You know you want to.

[pbiggz]

Despite the general coolness of the weapons, and the fact that they've genuinely been good, i've not used MRMs very much. Maybe i'll take em for a spin once this patch drops.

[Saved By The Bell]

MRM is very good and extremely danger. It saved many obsolete mechs, which I bought.

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 17 October 2021 - 11:37 PM.

[martian]

Saved By The Bell, on 17 October 2021 - 11:37 PM, said:

MRM is very good and extremely danger. It saved many obsolete mechs, which I bought.

They are good for some older (and newer) 'Mechs with limited number of missile hardpoints.

[D A T A]

i see a big logic hole here....its like saying: lets bring LRM 20 on same cooldown level of LRM5 or srm6 on same cooldown level of srm2......why would you even use the smaller ones, they would be just worse variants of the bigger ones.

Mrm 30-40 and atm 9-12 are actually pretty good, while smaller ones suck pretty bad. Thats why they got buffed

[caravann]

Bought a bushwhacker, my first mech because of cool design.

Realize bushwhacker is a rather underperforming mech.

A Deverish has jumpjets and missile hardpoints.

The bushwhacker can use MRM10s, a shotgun.

The shotgun makes players back off.

MRM10 is useful, the MRM40 is a trap.

This is the same thing with rocket launcher.

MRM is a rocket launcher with ammo bins.

It can be described as SRM but SRM deals higher damage for each projectile.

[FupDup]

The reason for them not all sharing the cooldown is so that the smaller launchers aren't total crap. Same reason that the SRM2 shoots faster than the SRM6 and the LRM5 shoots faster than the LRM20.

This also gives mechs who have enough hardpoints to spam smaller launchers a slight edge over having only one hardpoint (otherwise there's not much point to all the extra hardpoints because it's not like you can take 6 MRM40's).

[caravann]

Actual testing show that Mech who can be fitted with LRM5 will ghost heat enough to shut off faster because of the reduced cooldown and the spam features of LRM5 makes you an easy target, like very easy to counter fire a LRM5 mech.

Mech of larger sizes can carry bigger and don't need to worry about the ghost heating of smaller LRM stacks because them can have 2 x lrm20 instead of 2 lrm15 and to obtain equal it would needed 8 missile hardpoints with LRM5

[feeWAIVER]

D A T A, on 18 October 2021 - 01:22 AM, said:

i see a big logic hole here....its like saying: lets bring LRM 20 on same cooldown level of LRM5 or srm6 on same cooldown level of srm2......why would you even use the smaller ones, they would be just worse variants of the bigger ones.

Mrm 30-40 and atm 9-12 are actually pretty good, while smaller ones suck pretty bad. Thats why they got buffed

You would use smaller ones based on weight/hardpoint compatibility.
Example, 2 mrm 10s weigh 1 ton less than 1 mrm 20.

Also if the hardpoint itself only has 10 or 20 missile pods, you may fit a weapon that shoots the appropriate payload.

[1453 R]

In an ideal world, bringing one or two ATM-3s or MRM-10s would be a valid weapon choice for lighter, faster 'Mechs unable to carry 50+ missile tubes. Faster cycle times would be one way smaller launchers could pretend to try and keep up, rather than being 110% *****-slap useless the way they currently are. We're never going to get to a world where single weapons that aren't AC/20s or maximum-tube missile launchers aren't pointless, but we can maybe get closer. Making small launchers completely redundant next to large ones is not the way to do so.

[Brauer]

feeWAIVER, on 18 October 2021 - 05:55 AM, said:

Also if the hardpoint itself only has 10 or 20 missile pods, you may fit a weapon that shoots the appropriate payload.

Are you referring to tube count? Tube count on a hardpoint has no influence on MRMs at all.

[feeWAIVER]

Brauer, on 18 October 2021 - 08:10 AM, said:

Are you referring to tube count? Tube count on a hardpoint has no influence on MRMs at all.

It doesn't? Well that's lame, but I'm not surprised.

Regardless, the reason to use varying sizes of MRM would be to min/max weight and heat.
A previous patch normalized the cooldowns for MRMs- to now stagger their cooldowns again suggests that the balance team is flailing in the dark from month to month.

[1453 R]

OR, it could suggest that their change didn't work they way they were hoping it would and they're iterating on their ideas to progress forward, step by step, every month? Y'know, the way balance is supposed to work?

[feeWAIVER]

1453 R, on 18 October 2021 - 09:24 AM, said:

OR, it could suggest that their change didn't work they way they were hoping it would and they're iterating on their ideas to progress forward, step by step, every month? Y'know, the way balance is supposed to work?

Yeah sure whatever.
I'll just continue not using murms cuz they kinda suck anyways.
10s will now shoot 0.4 seconds faster (they still won't get used) but if we made 30s and 40s fire 0.4 seconds faster that would be clearly overpowered. /eyeroll

[CrimsonPhantom6sg062]

feeWAIVER, on 18 October 2021 - 09:10 AM, said:

It doesn't? Well that's lame, but I'm not surprised.

Regardless, the reason to use varying sizes of MRM would be to min/max weight and heat.
A previous patch normalized the cooldowns for MRMs- to now stagger their cooldowns again suggests that the balance team is flailing in the dark from month to month.

Missile tube restriction only affects IS LRMs and rockets. It would also affect srms and ssrms, but there are no large volume missile launchers of these types.

I think it is good that missile tube does not limit most missile builds - adds more variety to chassis like the wolverine and quickdraw.

Using different sizes of missile launchers used to mostly be for min-maxing, but this is understandably deemed too lackluster a customization option.
Currently, smaller launchers have the advantage of better spread (and therefore better ammo efficiency), better cooldown (not necessarily better DPS), and being smaller and lighter while packing a similar amount of firepower. Larger launchers have the advantage of potentially higher alpha and being able to be put into mechs with fewer hardpoints (and often better soft stats).

I agree that the team is "flailing in the dark". It is called trial-and-error, which is better than making big random adjustments (i.e. Arctic Cheater, MASC nerf, Assault mech agility nerf via engine de-sync).

I personally think mrms are good. I would compare them to srms: they have better range and potentially higher alpha, but it is very easy to avoid effective damage from mrms, mrms have somewhat weaker DPS, and they are somewhat bulkier than srms. That is why they did not get as large a buff as the smaller atm launchers (which were genuinely hot garbage).

[LordNothing]

the whole reason smaller versions exist is because squirrels and bunnies want them too.

[1453 R]

feeWAIVER, on 18 October 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Yeah sure whatever.
I'll just continue not using murms cuz they kinda suck anyways.
10s will now shoot 0.4 seconds faster (they still won't get used) but if we made 30s and 40s fire 0.4 seconds faster that would be clearly overpowered. /eyeroll

How does that solve the problem of smaller launchers being strictly worse than larger ones?

MRM-30 and MRM-40 launchers are already very powerful brawling weapons. They vomit out a galactic smackton of damage; heavy and assault 'Mechs armed with multiple 30 or 40-rated MRM launchers can cover you with so many bees your 'Mech goes into anaphylactic shock and dies.

The MRM-10 has no such advantage, doing less damage per missile hardpoint than an SRM-6. And the MRM-20 is the least weight-effective launcher in the entire game, an absolutely terrible waste of tonnage. Why should the larger launchers benefit from a higher rate of fire as well as being larger, more weight-efficient, and just overall better?

As for ATMs, they're already basically a gimme against enemy AMS. Even a single AMS unit cuts the damage from an AMT-12 in half at the least, and often does even better. You could fire a hundred ATMs at once against a COR-7A and not a single one of them would get through. Smaller ATM launchers deal minimal damage, still have to cope with the UNFAIR, UNNECESSARY, AND EGREGIOUSLY WEAPON-DESTROYING minimum range on all ATM systems, and couldn't manage to punch a single missile pasty even one AMS. Faster cycle times for smaller tube count launchers are only one of the half-dozen fixes required to make ATM launchers worth their weight.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 18 October 2021 - 01:01 PM, said:

And the MRM-20 is the least weight-effective launcher in the entire game, an absolutely terrible waste of tonnage.

My Raven 2X does okay with an MRM20 and 4 ERMLs.