125 replies to this topic

[Fragga ONE]

pattonesque, on 23 October 2021 - 02:31 PM, said:

Sometimes you get a JGx four-man and it’s a challenge to play against, oftentimes though you get a four-man of dudes just out to have a good time and it’s much less of a problem

It looks like you like a 4 man of dudes out 4 some some fun. I and most the soupies do not.

[pbiggz]

Fragga ONE, on 23 October 2021 - 02:44 PM, said:

It looks like you like a 4 man of dudes out 4 some some fun. I and most the soupies do not.

In this case "most of the soupies" is code for like 7 guys on the forum.

"most of the soupies" is not a technical term. It has no statistical significance. You've presented a personal opinion and you're trying to pass it off as an indisputable fact.


Soft-banning people so they can't play the game a way you don't like is the quickest way to ruin this game forever.

[LordNothing]

people seem to got this notion that teams == skill. they are not the same thing. if i really tried id be hard pressed to find 5 unit tags that id even consider a major threat. most are just friends of various skill levels playing together, and i have seen some terrible potato teams as well.

are they killing qp, no. i can still have good games, i have more good games than bad ones. if qp was dead i simply wouldn't be here, yet here i am.

fp is a different story, but i did a couple drops the other day and i have to say it was not terrible. i think its a good idea to stop blaming groups and start blaming the puggernauts that buy into the hyperbole of the few players who got stomped so hard they think the sky is falling. just show up and see for yourself (see you in the tukayyid thread).

Edited by LordNothing, 23 October 2021 - 05:45 PM.

[Castigatus]

I think it's also undeniable that a lot of the discussion around this topic suffers badly from people confusing an opinion with fact, either accidentally or deliberately.

Personally, as a deep T5 scrub who really doesn't give that much of a **** about how well I do as long as I'm having fun, I have zero issues with groups in the QP queue. I like to play both alone and with friends and I like that the game allows me to do that without me having to queue in a different way that takes longer.

[Sjorpha]

For me at least being able to group up with my friends is a big part of what makes quickplay worth playing, so in my eyes it was a big improvement to the game.

It IS probably a bit bad for matchmaking though, especially when you get very strong groups stomping around. I just think the upsides is worth that downside.

Edited by Sjorpha, 24 October 2021 - 05:35 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

what really gets me every time when this thing comes up:

don't matter -if- groups have a big impact or not; there was an EASY way to implement it BETTER by allowing solos in GQ, leaving QP to solos-only. that way EVERYBODY could have his cake and eat it, too. but no.. can't do the easy thing. not even try.

[Half Ear]

As mentioned, the skill/coordination varies between groups as they do players within tiers. What can be done would be to manage how those groups coordinate in what they bring into each drop. Okay, located the post from another player.

I would also like to see those grouped by flagged/marked, only so both sides can see who dropped together, especially when they dont have the same unit tags. The optimal choice would see the MM use second line of sorting to balance out the teams but that is unlikely to happen. As least something like the following would put an end to the 4-man urbie brigades It might be fun for that 4-man, even if they get stomped but not for the other 8 players..

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6350614

Quote

And that is where it would need to be changed. Right now a group can drop matching mechs, within the tonnage limit. Think FP where with decent teams there is usually mech symmetry, and how effective that is a majority of the time.

• 1 mech per weight class for groups.
  
• Seed a group, then the next selection should be a group to fill the opposite team.
  
• Match weight classes instead of tonnage
  
• Reconsider leaving Lance size to lore and drop max group to 3.
  
• If staying with max 4-man, then 3-man should not be grouped up with 2-man either.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 September 2020 - 12:51 PM.

[pbiggz]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 24 October 2021 - 05:35 AM, said:

what really gets me every time when this thing comes up:

don't matter -if- groups have a big impact or not; there was an EASY way to implement it BETTER by allowing solos in GQ, leaving QP to solos-only. that way EVERYBODY could have his cake and eat it, too. but no.. can't do the easy thing. not even try.

At best we have like, a thousand concurrent players at prime time. There is no universe in which splitting that into multiple buckets is a good idea.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

pbiggz, on 24 October 2021 - 08:07 AM, said:

At best we have like, a thousand concurrent players at prime time. There is no universe in which splitting that into multiple buckets is a good idea.

I was talking past tense;
back before the merging, and possibly before the decline of western civilisation group-q, this should have been at least tried.

[Curccu]

Castigatus, on 24 October 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

I think it's also undeniable that a lot of the discussion around this topic forums suffers badly from people confusing an opinion with fact, either accidentally or deliberately.

FTFU

[Fragga ONE]

Castigatus, on 24 October 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

I think it's also undeniable that a lot of the discussion around this topic suffers badly from people confusing an opinion with fact, either accidentally or deliberately.

And undeniably you stated your opinion as a fact that people mistake their own opinions as fact.... where where you going with that statement?

Edited by Fragga ONE, 24 October 2021 - 01:21 PM.

[LordNothing]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 24 October 2021 - 08:22 AM, said:

I was talking past tense;
back before the merging, and possibly before the decline of western civilisation group-q, this should have been at least tried.

pgi never really could move fast enough to get fixes like this in the game. the time to get this all sorted was in beta. game was simply designed with an overoptimistic assumption of player numbers and how many you stand to lose over time. the most glaring of which was the 12 bucket system cw launched with. whoever came up with that idea was seriously delusional. if pgi knew what they know now, 12v12 matches in any mode would have never been a thing. hindsight, etc.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 October 2021 - 01:25 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

LordNothing, on 24 October 2021 - 01:24 PM, said:

whoever came up with that idea was seriously delusional. if pgi knew what they know now, 12v12 matches in any mode would have never been a thing. hindsight, etc.

Granted, but 12 was a magic number, so to speak. A full company of Battlemechs, the basic unit in lore, consists of three lances of four mechs each. The practical design of 8v8 soon gave way to 12v12 because it was "more battletech." Which is true, but it was less sound from a game management point of view, as you've pointed out.

[Dauntless Blint]

It's more like it would be preferable to have solo and group que separate but the reality is the game doesn't support it.

I think it's perfectly valid that getting 4v1'd can happen easier with soup que mix now than it used to and that group que breaks match maker.

Which in turn can break the tier system. A lot of stuff got nerfed in the past because the matchmaker made them look better in some peoples hands. A lot of the measures they made to try and bridge the skill gap only widened them too. It's being addressed but with only a thousand concurrent players now...

[pbiggz]

Dauntless Blint, on 24 October 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

It's more like it would be preferable to have solo and group que separate but the reality is the game doesn't support it.

No other game actively forces groups into a separate bucket.

Dauntless Blint, on 24 October 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

I think it's perfectly valid that getting 4v1'd can happen easier with soup que mix now than it used to and that group que breaks match maker.

Literal statistics have been presented that this claim is categorically untrue. Groups in the queue don't effect outcomes, and groups in the queue don't "break" the matchmaker.

Dauntless Blint, on 24 October 2021 - 07:52 PM, said:

Which in turn can break the tier system. A lot of stuff got nerfed in the past because the matchmaker made them look better in some peoples hands. A lot of the measures they made to try and bridge the skill gap only widened them too. It's being addressed but with only a thousand concurrent players now...

A top end t1 player is gonna trample even a t2. The difference between a top end t1 and a bottom end t1 is pretty similar to the difference between a t5 and a t3. The psr system is certainly a rabbit hole that one could go down, it has little to do with the ongoing and regrettable topic at hand, which is, that again, someone who seems to be losing alot thinks that soft banning people who play with their friends will make them win more.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

its not the Groups ,the Players today most dops alone ,and groups very rare , its the skill Gap between Veterans and News, egomanic soloplayers thats more a Problem for the own Team and Teamplayers thats thinking and fighting with her Team and plays many Years side by Side or against the others ...thats a Silence Communication in a Veteran level, coordinated Working without each Word while all have the same Training and gaming experience over Years,
Thats here harsher as in other Wargames with simple mechanis and not so a Long Gamehistory, with not so many Weaponsystems without Respawn Mechanics , with only 5 Tiers (20 better?)no levelbindig by Chassies (like War Thunder) and Lobbys like Battlefield
.the Dead comes fast against skilled Players thats have the Bascs in tactical play against Players tahts runs headless in the next Group.
Here you have Mechwarriors with 30 Years Experience (many fighting in MW2, MW3 fighting once in international leagues in MW4) in Mechbuilding and Tactical Groupfight against Players thats have Problem to move and Fight in the same Time and ignored minimap and all what not in the middle of the HUD in 30m...thats schoolkids against trained Veterans and no PvE mode for elarning the first Steps without Stress.
And for amnys , the "Group" its only the Strawmen for the own fail of learn and adapt ,and see theown Fails and Problems...its not the Group ,when a Guy runs in open Terrain and Crossfire as a Single easy target , not can press R an fire in the same Time ,or ignored the most targets or have a special Build thats useless on the most maps.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 24 October 2021 - 09:27 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Teams used to not be able to drop against randoms. They obviously started allowing teams to drop against randoms in QP because the population kept dropping like a rock and it was taking too long to get games going.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Imagine killing FP, the most interesting group-centered game mode, to try and save group queue instead of, you know, making groups in solo be max of 2 and letting FP be the new group queue.

Also gotta love the guys making assumptions about the makeup of groups based on anecdotal evidence or flat out supposition to support their "groups don't hurt QP" argument, then claiming that the other side is using opinion as fact.

Man this is some rich hypocrisy.

Edited by Gustav Kuriga, 24 October 2021 - 10:29 PM.

[Sergeant Destroy]

Imagine playing a 12 v 12 team deathmatch, insisting playing it like a free for all would make it more "fun"

[Cruor vult]

Problems with MM, with group games, with FP, this is what players with weak skills wanted. The game is very difficult, technically, strategically, tactically for a new player who suddenly decided to play robots. Therefore, over the past few years, PGI has nerfed skill-dependent weapons and mechanisms for the sake of low-power types and assemblies. There are a lot of warnings in the game, they tell you Do not go to FP without playing experience, do not bring trial mechs, group with a group to get team support, but YOU, "podpivkovichi" ignore ALL warnings. For the sake of single players, the PGI had a policy of destroying units and groups for four years, but the facts are that people trained in units, for the most part, are able to single-handedly outplay 3-4 opponents at the same time, if such players are gathered into a group, they will dominate in any game and mode. When the majority is offered to enter the unit, undergo training, learn at least to collect the right mechs, the majority refuses, why waste time on this. But after several times they get under the skating rink of highly qualified players, FIND the time to go to the forum and pour a bucket of slops on others, about how salty and misbehaving they are. Turn on your brain, this is not a bad game, the problem is YOU.