174 replies to this topic

[MW Waldorf Statler]

MechaGnome, on 28 October 2021 - 12:26 AM, said:

Its ok op fighting it out with these MWO shills is like shouting into the wind.. here. I agree with 99% of what you said but trying to get these things changed is pointless at this point.. The developers don't want to deal with MWO and the players don't want their favorite toys taken away..

Lurms are cancer in tiers 4&5 because everyone and their dogs are using them, because they take very little skill to target anything, ECM has been nerfed to hell and the AMS are ineffective.

The cauldron are light mech fanatics so its going to be bias to them for the foresee able future..

nonsense in my Tier 3 Class (with well coordinated Teams a Other situation)...the only 3 deads and Heavy Damage with LRMs in the last months was once a NARC and the other my own Fault , im overseeing the Raven Spotter behind me, im self in Tunnelview against the Fafnir in 50m Front and Monday im change in a bad Position of Alpine with multiple Spotter above me.
.Im self never use AMs (let the Reds seeing my Position) and use Max Radar Depr. Movement and my 2 Bio optical sensors
.Max Radar Dep. and use cover and a Mech thats move faster as 64kmh and watch for UAVs or spotters
.
Each Guy thats died in LRM Fire without Narc
1.Ignored Countermeasurments like Radar Depr. ECM,AMS ,Cover
2.Runs to slow in open Terrain
3.has no tactical Awarness
4.Has no View for Spotters and UAVs
When lRMs so easy why cou not use her self? or you a Assault Brawl Only Player , first Action is ...unknow Position of the Enemy and no View...OK ...RUSH !!!! a Little Armstrong Custer ?

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 28 October 2021 - 02:32 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

justcallme A S H, on 28 October 2021 - 01:54 AM, said:

Using flamers that have 90m range to get a headshot is now "toxic" gameplay?

And LRMs have some magic Arc?

If you were able to take your rose tinted glasses off, then absolutely, but then again, you've got used to seeing everything in fluffy pink and look to increase your posting numbers by basically trying to put everyone else down who doesn't agree with what you believe to be right . . . hmm, perchance referenced in point 4?

If you can be hit by LRM, hugging the side of a 4 or 5 storey building in the direct path of the attacker, then the arcs are broken.

But of course, it's far easier to criticise than it is to accept and make improvements . . . /yawn

[martian]

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

Certain events induce toxic play;

Since when is the requirement to kill enemy 'Mechs "toxic"?

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

headshot requirement being one where an experienced enough player will know the "head" hit box location and aim for that area, ...

Do you realize that even novice player can check 'Mech hitboxes to see where exactly cockpit glass of every MWO 'Mech is? I think somebody posted the image of Atlas hitboxes on the previous page. The hitbox position page is freely accessible.

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

...but also the use of bespoke loadouts designed to use flamers and fast recharge weapons to keep you shut down and pick out the known headshot points.

I have observed no unusual amount of flamer-equipped 'Mechs during the event.

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

Certain mechs are headshot magnets for anyone aiming for the CT, c.f. Marauders etc., where the chance of taking an alpha strike or plenty of PPC splash damage will take the cockpit out.

Even slight torso movement can significantly help with the cockpit protection.

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

As pointed out, LRMS do not behave according to any known physics and will make impossible changes in arc that will drop them virtually vertically on you even when hugging a building; AMS will help reduce damage or even wipe out low-tube missile platforms.

If you think that single-AMS protection is insufficient, use 'Mechs with two, three or four AMS.

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

Quite a few light mechs out DPS heavies and assaults, certain members of the community will vehemently agree or disagree with this depending on their inclination to think about (or lack of thought) about other peoples' experiences in game - 'nuff said, just trawl the forums.

Could you compare DPS "AND" range, please? Assault 'Mech carrying Autocannons, Gauss Rifles and ER PPCs versus light 'Mech with small or micro lasers?

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

Maps and their updates are an ongoing bone of contention; probably the most relevant aspect to what you have commented on is not that maps are too big, but that players do not use them more flexibly - the nascar mentality is real, regardless of what map you will find yourself on until you hit Tier 1 and even then, it can come down to organised drops using similar mechs/loadouts to nascar intentionally as a death-ball.

The players often have to respect the terrain and more importantly the position of bases or domination areas. I would love to play in some remote corner of the new Forest Colony map ... except that it would mean losing the game because of we would lose the domination circle or the base(s).

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

My advice, sit out the current event, pick one or two chassis that you enjoy and get into some decent groove play style and chill a bit knowing you will have good matches and bad matches - Tier means nothing when considering the fun you can have (sometimes lower the better as there's pressure to perform and tbh, I have multiple accounts and find I have the most fun in T4 - 3 where as T1 can be a royal pain in the backside as there's little room for error).

I have actually enjoyed the event thus far. I still play light and medium 'Mechs as usual. I have even mastered that free Hellspawn. Occassionally I take a heavy or Assault 'Mech. Got nice event rewards.

Even Tier 1 offers fun games.

[Sergeant Destroy]

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 01:42 AM, said:

Certain mechs are headshot magnets for anyone aiming for the CT, c.f. Marauders etc., where the chance of taking an alpha strike or plenty of PPC splash damage will take the cockpit out.

I´m pretty sure you cant "splash" cockpits.

[justcallme A S H]

PeppaPig, on 28 October 2021 - 02:19 AM, said:

If you were able to take your rose tinted glasses off, then absolutely, but then again, you've got used to seeing everything in fluffy pink and look to increase your posting numbers by basically trying to put everyone else down who doesn't agree with what you believe to be right . . . hmm, perchance referenced in point 4?

If you can be hit by LRM, hugging the side of a 4 or 5 storey building in the direct path of the attacker, then the arcs are broken.

But of course, it's far easier to criticise than it is to accept and make improvements . . . /yawn

Imagine using a weapon in the game to kill an enemy being labelled as "toxic gameplay". Absolutely laughable.

And no LRMs if you are butt up against a tall building don't hit you in the vast majority of cases. The Arc is actually a set formula.


And make no mistake. I'm not criticising what you said. I'm laughing in disbelief of how absolutely absurd it is.

Sergeant Destroy, on 28 October 2021 - 02:44 AM, said:

I´m pretty sure you cant "splash" cockpits.

Yep you hit CT they go aide torso.

Hit aide torso they go arm abd CT. Sometimes leg if it's closer from memory.

You'd need a 5-6 cERPPC pure Alpha for the splash to headshot you as well (if it was a thing). Another absurdity because you'd be shutdown for ~10s dropping 5-6 at once.

[Nesutizale]

Only thing I can imagne with LRMs doing strange stuff is some bug going on. Also depending on your fov settings you might think you are in hiding but since your mech can be pretty large and your fov to wide or narrow your behind is still in the open.

LAG might be another reason that the hit detection is off. Else I agree with most people here, LRMs can be avoided by hiding, radar derp, ECM or AMS to a point where they are managable.

[The6thMessenger]

Capt Deadpool, on 27 October 2021 - 10:50 AM, said:

I recently talked to Dario about my suspicions that Tier 3 lights being the absolute bane of cadets/Tier 5 players, while at the same time being under performing compared to other classes when they get into the higher tiers. We even get more experienced players sometimes saying they have difficulty shooting lights. It is a difficult problem to solve other than preventing Tier 3 pilots in lights dropping with Tier 5 players. In the meantime, weapons that are effective for new players against lights: streaks (take a TAG), SRMs, small and micro pulse lasers, IS medium pulse lasers, LBX cannons. Try to mount weapons in your arms instead of torsos to help with tracking.

I would say that the problem is the approach of survivability for certain lights like Flea or Locust, their fast movement and small profile, means they are reliant more on players being bad shot. And because newbies would typically be bad shot, and on basically culture shock, of course dealing with lights are a pain and feel cheap to fight against.

I'd rather they just make things properly volumetrically rescaled -- as in larger, and then armor/structure quirked for maximum forgiveness and thereby consistency. Locusts and Fleas would still be hampered by their firepower, they are still fast and nimble, but they aren't frustrating to fight against.

That pilots are more likely to survive incoming fire, enemies would be more likely to land a hit. It's just less frustrating for either party.

Gagis, on 27 October 2021 - 11:24 PM, said:

Indirect fire should have never been added into a PvP shooter game, but for historical reasons it was, and probably can't be removed without causing a massive uproar.

Maybe the next Mechwarrior PvP game will not have indirect fire, at least not with the kind of lock-on and homing mechanic that MWO has even though that is not what the Battletech sources describe LRM as. LRM could just as well have been implemented as a weapon system more similar to current implementation of MRM.

The trick is that indirect fire IS realistic, and in a realistic sense it is what wins battles and wars. It wins them by being as one-sided and unfair as possible and while in effect makes boots on the ground irrelevant and impotent. In a game where players are those "boots on the ground", making them irrelevant and impotent is bad game design. Indirect fire has no place in games outside of milsims or games where you aren't restricted to the role of a field combatant.

I agree. IDF is supposed to be unfair, because people try to win wars, not have a good match.

I'd rather they just restricted IDF on NARCed or TAGged targets. That means spotting is a hard role, and there's a reason to make IDF as broken as possiblle.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 28 October 2021 - 04:26 AM.

[McGoat]

Coming here I expected to see a well thought out and expressed statement regarding the abysmal New Player Experience and it's associated dearth of information, must say that i'm disappointed that those points were entirely ignored and instead this is a selectively crafted whine.
I smell an alt.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

Is it just me or does this thread feel like a(nother) "new player experience" hoax? No witch-hunt intended though, just surprised about how one could have missed about MWO for so long despite being knowledgeable about some old MW-divisions - especially with most of the lower tier games not showing big nascar-tendencies most of the time anyhow nor would one - standing still or not - experience a lot of headshots there IIRC.

But hey, what do I know ...

@Goat <= stolen!!!

Edited by AnAnachronismAlive, 28 October 2021 - 04:44 AM.

[pinetemplar]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 28 October 2021 - 04:43 AM, said:

Is it just me or does this thread feel like a(nother) "new player experience" hoax? No witch-hunt intended though, just surprised about how one could have missed about MWO for so long despite being knowledgeable about some old MW-divisions - especially with most of the lower tier games not showing big nascar-tendencies most of the time anyhow nor would one - standing still or not - experience a lot of headshots there IIRC.

But hey, what do I know ...

@Goat <= stolen!!!

I don't know what you are referring to but my experience with divisions is based on some old MW game from like 15 years ago i don't even remember the number but there was an arena were mechs were fighting mechs of only their class and it was so funny to put 2 ppc on a flea(if i remember correctly) which would oneshot some of the same class mechs but shout down from one alpha strikes. LOL those were the times.

[AnAnachronismAlive]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

I don't know what you are referring to but my experience with divisions is based on some old MW game from like 15 years ago i don't even remember the number but there was an arena were mechs were fighting mechs of only their class and it was so funny to put 2 ppc on a flea(if i remember correctly) which would oneshot some of the same class mechs but shout down from one alpha strikes. LOL those were the times.

Just assumptions and could start nit-pickin other parts of yer initial post, but does not matter since in the end it simply ain't wise to judge the quality / potential joy of a game - be that PVE or PVP - after roughly a week of play and start "browning" in the official forums about it - be that with a bazillion hours in other war-sims or not.

[martian]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

I don't know what you are referring to but my experience with divisions is based on some old MW game from like 15 years ago i don't even remember the number but there was an arena were mechs were fighting mechs of only their class and it was so funny to put 2 ppc on a flea(if i remember correctly) which would oneshot some of the same class mechs but shout down from one alpha strikes. LOL those were the times.

I think that you are talking about MechWarrior 4: Mercenaries.



But MechWarrior Online is a different game.

Have you tried the new MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries game? Perhaps it would be more to your liking.

[Horseman]

pinetemplar, on 28 October 2021 - 04:56 AM, said:

I don't know what you are referring to but my experience with divisions is based on some old MW game from like 15 years ago i don't even remember the number but there was an arena were mechs were fighting mechs of only their class and it was so funny to put 2 ppc on a flea(if i remember correctly) which would oneshot some of the same class mechs but shout down from one alpha strikes. LOL those were the times.

That was one mode, called Solaris. We have a Solaris mode in MWO as well, sounds like you'd be happier playing that.

[martian]

Horseman, on 28 October 2021 - 05:03 AM, said:

That was one mode, called Solaris. We have a Solaris mode in MWO as well, sounds like you'd be happier playing that.

I told him about the Solaris 7 game mode in the post #4, but he did not react.

[Jun Watarase]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

<I played WoT a lot more then 25k matches with 60% winrate. Played some MW5 and decided to give this game a try. Made it to tier 4 in a week and well it is a pile of rotting **** so far.

First: Headshots. I understand that it is lore accurate but ffs can you balance them out? Is it that hard to not make them the part of the game. Where is the fun in both getting headshotted and getting a random kill that you will not even get damage from?

Second: LRM. I mean i get it - lore but man. WHY CAN'T WE AT LEAST BE ABLE TO HIDE BEHIND BUILDINGS? This is more idiotic then artillery in WoT. And they are called all the censored words there - i presume here also. Is it that hard to balance them? Also there is almost none tall enough obstacles to hide behind. And i don't care about lore - this is zero fun and a lot of bad experiences.

Third: Close combat vs light Mechs. Should i explain why it is pure cancer especially if your team doesn't pay attention? You don't even need o reinvent the wheel - in old MW were divisions so those cancer shitheads on their piranhas can go kill each other. Why do we have to deal with that? Is it that hard to make mixed divisions with like light+med, med+heavy and heavy+assault. Will be much more enjoyable to fight similar tonnage mechs then trying to find some stealth armor locust hiding in a corner in a skirmish.

Forth: Size of maps. It is pretty simple actually - maps a WAY TO BIG. Which leads to gaps in front line, which leads to people moving forward for actual gameplay and not finding anyone to engage therefor nascarring around and creating all this mess. There is just not enough mechs on the map to create a frontline. Period. You can't teach people to hold the line if there is none. Especially considering previous point when all the mechs have WAY different speed because of tonnage. Based on the size of the maps and amount of light mechs i presume this game needs at least 20vs20 maybe even up to 25 or 30 players on one side to create frontlines and actual tactical combat. Or maps should be shrunk to the seize where 12 mechs of this composition will be actually able to saturate them and not to feel like a drop in the ocean leading to all other issues.

I read this and im totally baffled.

Headshots : Almost never happens unless you stand still and someone bothers to aim for your cockpit.

LRMs : The meta is to boat lots of mid-long range lasers, alpha, then reverse behind cover. LRMs cant even lock onto someone before they reverse behind cover. And any rock or building blocks LRMs as long as it is as high as your mech. Most people dont even bother with LRMs at higher tiers.

Light mechs : You are playing in tier 5, your team has a much lower situational awareness at higher tiers. When you get to tier 3, rushing into an enemy team solo as a light mech will result in a quick death. Hiding and refusing to engage is a violation of the game rules (i dont know if PGI bothers to ban anyone these days though). Try not to vote for skirmish precisely to avoid "last guy hiding in a corner of the map" problems.

Gaps in front line : Another lower tier problem. At higher tiers, the game boils down to two static firing lines poking at each other till one side gets an advantage and the other side crumbles like a house of cards. Occasionally you get a lot of potatoes on one team that wander all over the place but thats the exception, not the rule. Some maps are definately too large, but others feel just right or even small (classic forest colony or classic frozen city is nice because they were originally designed for 8vs8). Try not to vote for larger maps like alpine, polar or frozen colony.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 28 October 2021 - 05:12 AM.

[Pika]

Don't want to be rude man, but I almost spat my tea out when I saw the OP saying LRMs are broken.

It's like being in 2014 all over again. Happy times. You see we used to get a thread about this fairly often, more veteran players will scoff at LRMs and some of the first things we remove from our 'mech builds are the LRM if it comes with any.

Unfortunately LRMs are basically obsolete the moment you learn how to avoid them. Get Rader Derp from skills, even just one tier of it and learn where the routes around the maps are. When you spot an enemy UAV don't just shoot at it, but call it out so your whole team can drop it. If you see a little red laser pointer on you, chase off the 'Mech shining it at you or hide from it. Stay near AMS equipped 'Mechs and don't try and "cut across" the map without your team around you, or LRMs WILL find you. Don't give LRMs a reason to shoot at you, and you'll never see them.

I don't know if it's just me, but I'm one of the people who think LRMs need a pretty substantial buff. Them being awful is rendering entire chassis lines obsolete tbh.

[MechWarrior1931204]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 10:07 AM, said:

stuff

So, ....you just started to play mwo, but you want to be already good and decisive?

Forget about it, bruh


or do you want to have fun? If fun only, then why are you whining about being massively bad at the game?
Just take whatever mech, and that's it.

What's amazing, tho....it's the fact that you just started but nontheless want to spread advices and judgments all over the place!!

Is your name Dunning or Kruger?

Edited by ex LGBT SexSlave now free, 28 October 2021 - 06:30 AM.

[MechWarrior1931204]

pinetemplar, on 27 October 2021 - 11:50 AM, said:

See the problem with "experienced players" is they are well adapted to the current state of events and they definitely wouldn't think outside of the box.

but my numbers say that I'm doing ok with the game....so I guess that thinking inside my box it's ok.

your "numbers" should suggest you that you are wrong.....

[KuroNyra]

... Am I the only one that's taken notice of that... Particular player name?

[martian]

MechWarrior1931204, on 28 October 2021 - 06:34 AM, said:

but my numbers say that I'm doing ok with the game....

You are doing well ...

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 29 October 2021 - 03:26 AM.
name clean-up