7 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

The current state of how Radar works is basicly that everyone sees everything. That is more or less the pracital side. Yes its not exactly like that but very closely since everything you see is shared with everyone else and vise versa.

I would like it to be changed to a system that is more...manual. Hopefully getting more teamplay into a teamplay game and makeing it more tactical.
(First draft idea, definitly needs more refinement)


1) Target positions & information is not shared automaticly
- Just seeing a target dosn't share its position or any other information with the team.
- Press R to lock a target and share its position (lock breaks as usual)
- Locking a target speeds up target information gathering for teammates who try to lock on to the same target.
- Command wheel function only works on locked targets and is a request for firesupport on a target. Highlighting the target for the entire team with an arrow or different color for the takko. It no longer makes targets trackable on the minimap even if they went out of sight.


2) Reduced damage on unlocked targets
- Unlocked targets receive less damage, In case of missiles/LBX it increases the spread.
- Targets without target information receive a little bit less damage/more spread
- Locked targets with complete target information can be fired upon as usual.

This is against blind targeting alphas, pokeing and jump sniping. You can still do it but its less effective. It should also increase the usefullness of scouts doing what they are supposed to do. Holding target locks on selected targets as well as give people even more reasons to focus fire on locked targets.


3) Locking targets and rewards
- Locking a target will reward you with a porting of the damage done to your target by other players. (That in return should give you more XP/Cbills right?)
- A reward for the time you have locked a single target. (Y-XP/CBils for X-amount of time) but only for the first time you lock a target. So you want to keep that target locked and not switch constantly. This should benefit scouts more then others.
- Narc and TAG will further increase your share of the damage as well as benifiting your team in the usual way.

The idea behind this is to give scouts an incentive to do their job/play differently then just busting LRM assaults behinds. Also this is still a valid option.


4) Command Mechs (IS only)
- Benifits the entire team as long as one is ingame and not killed
- Target position is automaticly shared like its currently done
- No need for target locks of allready locked mechs. Just point your crosshair over a target that has been locked by another teammate and you instantly lockon. Note that targets that haven't been locked on by anyone still don't give you any information !
- Radar derp is less effective
(These effects aren't stackable)

This removes the Command Console and Battlecomputers from the game and gives special variants of Mechs, designated as Command Mechs, a special Command Computer that costs 6t, is installed in the head and can't be removed.
Externaly Command Mechs are identifiable by their antenna array at the back.
There could be an Cyclops-CC or an Marauder-CC. (Only Heavy and Assaults are able to mount this)

For gameplay this priovides a nice boost to an entire team but also gives the enemy a priority target to go after.
Beside that, the bonus the mech provides is reduces by its heavy tonnage and nearly takeing a mech out of the game as its more likely that these mechs won't be at the frontlines to keep the bonus as long as possible.


5) C3 network [C3N] (IS only)
- 2t, one head or CT slot (this is because of the QP nature of the game a universal design)
- Mechs equipping C3N will get a special Tag in the matchmaker so that people with a C3N can see others and sort themself into lances.
- Will only work with people inside your lance
- Increases Damage / lowers spread to locked targets inside the C3 network
- Target information is instantly avaible on targets that have been locked by lancemates
- Target position is shared inside the network on a visual basis like its now


6) Targeting Computers
- Lets you select specific locations on a mech, except the head (using the number pad - open to other keybinds but that is the easiest one I think)
- By default the CT is selected when locking on to a target.
- When the crosshair is close to the selected target the computer will auto adjust weapons fired for a higher hit chance. You still need to aim at the location in the first place. So its not an "easy mode" but a slight improvement over not haveing it.
- Tonnage is now calculated by the weapons you link up to it in the mechlab instead of a flat tonnage.
- IS computers weight more and have less of a bonus in targeting correction.


7) Clans and you (optional)
Clams prefere the "solo mode" or honorable combat. Its hard to implement in an envoirment like MWO. What I could think of is that as a Clan player you get two different target reticules. One in red for targets allready targeted by allies and green ones for targets that no one fires at.
Firing on green targets gives you a damage bonus/reduced spread. So you can still go IS in clan mech or you can go complete Clan and single out targets you want to fire at.
This is a feature that I think is necessary but with CC and C3N beeing IS only it would be nice to have a little counterbalance to it and with how battle mostly evolve, I think it might be hard to even find targets that aren't targeted by everyone else.
If the population would be high enough I did say seperate clans and IS but...well no.
Also I wouldn't write it completely off the table. Someone might have a better idea.


TL:DR
Less informations generaly aviable, more focus on role like scouting and keeping targets locked. Give Command Console a place/use and adding C3.

PS: Yes I know MWO 2.0 is not even near the horizon I think but lets just ignore that and theorie craft a bit on how we could bring role warfare into the game.
Would also like to change LRM gameplay completly but I think I will make that a seperate posting.

[caravann]

Fine , I just give it to an urbie and let it crawl around on the map.

It's not like it matter, most missiles are removed by AMS

If you want to hit anything you'll need to shoot from the hip

[FupDup]

Making guns do less damage to unlocked targets is super weird.

Also I'm not sure if the increased spread thing is even possible. How would the game distinguish if, for example, I launched some MRMs far ahead of a target to lead the shot, and the target ran fast enough to run into the missiles, would the missiles suddenly spread out wider if they realized an unlocked target was about to run into them?

[Curccu]

FupDup, on 30 October 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

Making guns do less damage to unlocked targets is super weird.

Also I'm not sure if the increased spread thing is even possible. How would the game distinguish if, for example, I launched some MRMs far ahead of a target to lead the shot, and the target ran fast enough to run into the missiles, would the missiles suddenly spread out wider if they realized an unlocked target was about to run into them?

Didn't PGIs info warfare test server stuff at one point work similarly except it was less damage to targets without lock.

[FupDup]

Curccu, on 30 October 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Didn't PGIs info warfare test server stuff at one point work similarly except it was less damage to targets without lock.

What they did was make laser weapons have shorter range unless the player had a target locked.

IIRC it didn't matter if the target you were shooting was the locked one or not, just as long as you had any lock you got your old laser range restored.

[Nesutizale]

FupDup, on 30 October 2021 - 11:47 AM, said:

Making guns do less damage to unlocked targets is super weird.

Yes it is...kinda and not.....

Let me explain. When going by lore locking target or just firing "form the hip" would influance your aim.
Imagne it as either haveing a cone of fire where your shoot will randomly hit because your onboard computer isn't good enough to calculte a good firing solution or your arms/torso move slower then your crosshair so when you pull the trigger to fast you will only parital hit or miss completly.

Since there is a very strong opinion around here about taking away pin-point accuracy from players (I can allready hear people scream "heresy") I have gone the other way and abstracted it. The result is the same either way, you do less damage no matter if use a cone of damage, slow targeting or just flat damage reduction.
Personaly I would prefer one of the more intuitive solution like the "crosshair moves faster then mech adjusts its fire" but you can't have it all.

Quote

Also I'm not sure if the increased spread thing is even possible. How would the game distinguish if, for example, I launched some MRMs far ahead of a target to lead the shot, and the target ran fast enough to run into the missiles, would the missiles suddenly spread out wider if they realized an unlocked target was about to run into them?

What is possible or not is another topic on its own. PGI dosn't seam to ahve the resources/knowledge to any of this. That is why I call it a wish

As for your missile example. Spread or damage wouldn't change mid flight / firing. Its what it is when you shoot. Locking the target later on or loosing lock later dosn't matter.

Curccu, on 30 October 2021 - 12:37 PM, said:

Didn't PGIs info warfare test server stuff at one point work similarly except it was less damage to targets without lock.

FupDup, on 30 October 2021 - 12:39 PM, said:

What they did was make laser weapons have shorter range unless the player had a target locked.

IIRC it didn't matter if the target you were shooting was the locked one or not, just as long as you had any lock you got your old laser range restored.

Interesting, didn't know that there was this kind of testing at some point.
Reduceing the range, also a very abstract approach it seams.
Just haveing any lock on the other hand seams comnplety going against what they wanted to archive or it was just halfway done?

Edited by Nesutizale, 30 October 2021 - 12:47 PM.

[Storming Angel]

Nesutizale, on 30 October 2021 - 12:45 PM, said:

Yes it is...kinda and not.....

Let me explain. When going by lore locking target or just firing "form the hip" would influance your aim.
Imagne it as either haveing a cone of fire where your shoot will randomly hit because your onboard computer isn't good enough to calculte a good firing solution or your arms/torso move slower then your crosshair so when you pull the trigger to fast you will only parital hit or miss completly.

Since there is a very strong opinion around here about taking away pin-point accuracy from players (I can allready hear people scream "heresy") I have gone the other way and abstracted it. The result is the same either way, you do less damage no matter if use a cone of damage, slow targeting or just flat damage reduction.
Personaly I would prefer one of the more intuitive solution like the "crosshair moves faster then mech adjusts its fire" but you can't have it all.



What is possible or not is another topic on its own. PGI dosn't seam to ahve the resources/knowledge to any of this. That is why I call it a wish

As for your missile example. Spread or damage wouldn't change mid flight / firing. Its what it is when you shoot. Locking the target later on or loosing lock later dosn't matter.




Interesting, didn't know that there was this kind of testing at some point.
Reduceing the range, also a very abstract approach it seams.
Just haveing any lock on the other hand seams comnplety going against what they wanted to archive or it was just halfway done?

doing the opposite would be interesting, increasing range on lasers when targets are locked or the same for some missiles too.
i also think tracking based missiles should reacquire targets after said targets being re-locked as well.

just a few ideas to encourage less passive play.

[FupDup]

Storming Angel, on 31 October 2021 - 11:07 AM, said:

i also think tracking based missiles should reacquire targets after said targets being re-locked as well.

This is already the case.