87 replies to this topic

[W4R GOD]

Its complete trash. Colors all blend together and its a snipe fest. The game did not need another long range pop sniping comp player map. The rework was not needed. Neither did HPG which again has......wall snipers all over it.

[Extra Guac]

It's pretty good except for the lack of visibility.

HPG remake is a disaster. Old HPG was the most fun map.

[Brom96]

pbiggz, on 15 November 2021 - 11:11 AM, said:

I mean what else is new.

Obviously caustic is one of the less popular reworks, but, every time François even looks at a new map, people here start shrieking like someone's cutting their toes off with a rusty hacksaw. Its widely accepted already that new HPG is vastly superior to the old, but when that rework dropped there was no less than three busy threads full of people lamenting the premature death of MWO (mostly because their close range mplas brawlers now required some degree of forebrain activity to pilot effectively, and people having the temerity to drive snipers was a personal slight to them).

New caustic could use some love still, it didn't quite hit the mark, but its not the black mark on MWO that some people make it out to be, its still a perfectly serviceable map.

The only thing superior, if you can call it that, is that now everyone and their mother can get on the wall and snipe, while previously it was limited to just certain mechs. And just to deny people cover, they raised the base of the ground area in the vicinity, exposing you further to the tops.

How much it is appreciated? I see it even less then I have seen the old polar (about once in 2 days).

[pbiggz]

Brom96, on 16 November 2021 - 08:57 AM, said:

The only thing superior, if you can call it that, is that now everyone and their mother can get on the wall and snipe, while previously it was limited to just certain mechs. And just to deny people cover, they raised the base of the ground area in the vicinity, exposing you further to the tops.

How much it is appreciated? I see it even less then I have seen the old polar (about once in 2 days).

I've seen it plenty so your anecdote has been noted, as has mine.

You're allowed not to like it, I just push back on people who pass their preferences off as authoritative (which I am not accusing you of doing right now). The old maps were almost all brawl-centric toilet bowls. Francois is evidently working towards making the maps larger, more varied in terrain, and amenable to a wider array of strategies so you may want to start thinking about how to work around snipers being on the map again, because they're clearly here to stay and that's not a bad thing.

[LordNothing]

Extra Guac, on 15 November 2021 - 07:04 PM, said:

It's pretty good except for the lack of visibility.

HPG remake is a disaster. Old HPG was the most fun map.

this is kind of in the 'different enough it might as well be a new map' category. aside from the spawns and the basement, i think this is mostly a new location or another hpg relay in the network. i dont really hate the new one, but bring back the classic versions of this one and caustic as well.

viridian is only a minor upgrade so no reason to have two of those. sort of older caustic -> old causitc upgrade that more or less kept the same gameplay. its kind of unfortunate because bog is one of the better looking biomes and wouldnt mind a new map in that biome.

like how many snow maps do we have? its a large number. every biome should have that many maps.

[Ignatius Audene]

If u play more faction, u will realise that the maps are rly good for sniping. Only the qp nascar running to the middle mindset makes them short range. New hpg in fp is boring! The center is fine but the hole higher ring outside idea is hdhfhndh

[C337Skymaster]

pbiggz, on 15 November 2021 - 11:11 AM, said:

Its widely accepted already that new HPG is vastly superior to the old,

Not so. My entire unit groans every time we get stuck on that abomination that I hesitate to even grace with the qualifier "map". Who the hell puts RAMPS on defensive walls?!! Why the hell are we fighting over a tiny little antenna randomly dropped on a walkway when there's a ridiculously MASSIVE dish less than a kilometer away?! "You can have the itty bitty dish. We'll take that big one, over there!"

That map has been absolutely ruined, and is the reason that I'm REALLY hoping they bring back map blacklisting vs being dragged onto these atrocities by not having a big enough multiplier saved up. I would rather wait an extra 5 minutes for a map pool that doesn't include HPG than ever see that atrocity ever again.

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 17 November 2021 - 06:51 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

pbiggz, on 16 November 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

making the maps larger,

The only map that got a size increase was Viridian Bog. everything else is exactly the same size it previously was, and follows the same out-of-bounds contour. HPG got a 3m widening so the walls would be fully accessible, although I'd argue that's done more harm than good, because now people can fall off the backside of the wall without ample warning and be auto-killed for out-of-bounds with no chance to correct that for themselves.

[pbiggz]

C337Skymaster, on 17 November 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

Not so. My entire unit groans every time we get stuck on that abomination that I hesitate to even grace with the qualifier "map". Who the hell puts RAMPS on defensive walls?!! Why the hell are we fighting over a tiny little antenna randomly dropped on a walkway when there's a ridiculously MASSIVE dish less than a kilometer away?! "You can have the itty bitty dish. We'll take that big one, over there!"

That map has been absolutely ruined, and is the reason that I'm REALLY hoping they bring back map blacklisting vs being dragged onto these atrocities by not having a big enough multiplier saved up. I would rather wait an extra 5 minutes for a map pool that doesn't include HPG than ever see that atrocity ever again.

C337Skymaster, on 17 November 2021 - 06:23 AM, said:

The only map that got a size increase was Viridian Bog. everything else is exactly the same size it previously was, and follows the same out-of-bounds contour. HPG got a 3m widening so the walls would be fully accessible, although I'd argue that's done more harm than good, because now people can fall off the backside of the wall without ample warning and be auto-killed for out-of-bounds with no chance to correct that for themselves.

Let me restate it because you didn't seem to hear it.

You are allowed to not like it. That doesn't objectively mean the map is bad. It means you don't like it. Every word you've said is anecdote, not fact, and when people pass off anecdote as authoritative fact I will push back on them because that's bull.

C337Skymaster, on 17 November 2021 - 06:23 AM, said:

[redacted]

Get a grip.


This is peak "I hate the game the way it is but if you change it I will scream" brain. Absolutely absurd.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 17 November 2021 - 06:52 AM.
quote clean-up

[ScrapIron Prime]

C337Skymaster, on 17 November 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

Who the hell puts RAMPS on defensive walls?!! Why the hell are we fighting over a tiny little antenna randomly dropped on a walkway when there's a ridiculously MASSIVE dish less than a kilometer away?!

Simple. They're not defensive walls. They serve some other inscrutable sci-fi purpose and they need ramps so you can get the maintenance trucks or bratwurst vendors up there. That same inscrutable purpose is why we must fight over them.

Or maybe its an arena? Made for a first person shooter? Huh.

Either way, I do agree with your assessment that it is not universally loved. Everyone who took cover around the central "hill" on the old map who is now being forced to find new places to stand has not yet adapted... and at this point, that's a conscious choice.

Personally I LOOOOOVE the new HPG. Why? Snipers! Here's a map that encourages low DPS builds to go off on their own unsupported from the rest of their team! Free candy for those of us that move faster than 90 kph! I swear my KDR in medium mechs has increased thanks to new HPG and new Caustic.

[Bud Crue]

If we're going to talk HPG, the issue in my mind is not whether or not new HPG is better than old HPG, it's that it plays dramatically different. Like new Polar vs the original, old HPG was a completely different game game play experience than new HPG. It seems foolish to me to take what was easily one of thee most popular (most often voted for) maps and replace it with something that plays completely different than the old. They should both be a choice.

To me new Caustic feels like just a chunk of old Caustic and is just as limiting (and arguably even more so when you add in the visibility issues). Old Caustic was nascar around the center cauldron with the occasional peak and poke play across it and at the far edges. In new Caustic since it is suicide to go through the cauldron few even bother to play that area and instead folks are forced to peak and poke within the rocks within a few grids of the spawns or the high far perimeters (at least the few I have played go this way). Blech. Unless up against Alpine and new Frozen City, I'd vote for neither if both were in the rotation.

While on the subject of new maps in general:

New Canyon feels pretty much the same as old Canyon. Despite the changes it is still as much a Nascar map as it ever was, and even if you don't like the added ramps, we still have Cold Canyon in the rotation.

New Bog doesn't play much different than old Bog, other than when the occasional group of mechs try to form a firing line on the new raised area across from the center. I have yet to play a match where any fight ends up being played out in all that new low ground.

Lastly...

C337Skymaster, on 17 November 2021 - 06:18 AM, said:

[redacted comment about Francois]

Get a grip.

Edited by Bud Crue, 17 November 2021 - 10:38 AM.

[TELEFORCE]

Well, it seems like some people like the maps, and some people don't like the maps. Mission accomplished I guess

I pick on Caustic Valley because it's especially reviled in the map vote. Perhaps many after trying do actually hate it, assuming many of them aren't forumwarriors or are influenced by the criticism on the forums, Reddit, etc.

Edited by TELEFORCE, 17 November 2021 - 12:06 PM.

[Brom96]

pbiggz, on 16 November 2021 - 09:01 AM, said:

I've seen it plenty so your anecdote has been noted, as has mine.

You're allowed not to like it, I just push back on people who pass their preferences off as authoritative (which I am not accusing you of doing right now). The old maps were almost all brawl-centric toilet bowls. Francois is evidently working towards making the maps larger, more varied in terrain, and amenable to a wider array of strategies so you may want to start thinking about how to work around snipers being on the map again, because they're clearly here to stay and that's not a bad thing.

No problem with that.

As for trying out new strategies, unfortunately I am limited almost solely to ATMs due to my motoric issues - my grip got so weak and bad that ballistics and energy weapons go all over the place when I fire, so it is pretty much down to lockable ones. In HPG it is now active hunt for those snipers.

As Caustic goes, it is mostly limited to fight over one or two outcrops in single square of the map. Pretty much limited options there. Also, yes, I know... There are other places to fight on one map, but I have yet to see any fight in, say, Solaris, that doesn't happen in dead center. People just tend to fight in certain specific spots, larger or smaller and avoid other sections of the map.

[Moldur]

Somebody should have thought about the color contrast on the domination circle in the minimap is all I'm saying.

Ok I lied, I'll also say that the map sucks lel.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Moldur, on 18 November 2021 - 04:11 AM, said:

Somebody should have thought about the color contrast on the domination circle in the minimap is all I'm saying.

Ok I lied, I'll also say that the map sucks lel.

Well we all know where the thing is supposed to be and we have a green indicator light when we're in it... so I expect it to be a low priority fix.

But... yeah.

[Ignatius Audene]

visibility is usefull. I dont like that they want bad visibility to be a map feature! That is always resulting in low details gaming beeing superior (not even starting about the filters Nightbird shown In a different thread).

Sitting with your nose to the monitor so u can see enemy's further than 600m away is a not fun and b bad for your health.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 19 November 2021 - 01:06 AM.

[PocketYoda]

HPG reboot was my Fav.

[TELEFORCE]

Ignatius Audene, on 19 November 2021 - 01:06 AM, said:

visibility is usefull. I dont like that they want bad visibility to be a map feature! That is always resulting in low details gaming beeing superior (not even starting about the filters Nightbird shown In a different thread).

Sitting with your nose to the monitor so u can see enemy's further than 600m away is a not fun and b bad for your health.

Good point! I remember that being an issue with War Thunder's realistic combat modes... Maybe it's still an issue? Does turning down the graphics settings in MWO affect the visibility on new Caustic Valley?

[Tombstoner]

When was the last time the game got a new map? That might be part of the reason. is 2 a year unreasonable? if not then the game should have 20 maps by now. might have to reinstall and see.

[martian]

Tombstoner, on 20 November 2021 - 07:27 AM, said:

might have to reinstall and see.

Welcome back!

There are many new 'Mechs in MWO.

Osiris Hero "Sekhmet" ...



... and some new medium 'Mechs. See the Viper Hero "Medusa":

Tombstoner, on 20 November 2021 - 07:27 AM, said:

When was the last time the game got a new map? That might be part of the reason. is 2 a year unreasonable? if not then the game should have 20 maps by now.

There are new maps.

Some maps have been redone. I made some screenshots for you.

See the reworked Terra Therma, the enlarged Frozen City or the Hibernal Rift (reskinned Canyon Network):







Some maps are brand new:






Do not be afraid to ask, should you need something. You can always ask here: New Player Help