43 replies to this topic

[Bamboozle Gold]

Having a map in rotation that invalidates certain playstyle entirely is bad. A reason why maps are getting reworked is to make sure all maps are more or less equal for every playstyle.

It would be acceptable if you could change mech to another chassis with same or less tonnage after the voting phase. Or maybe another variant of the same chassis. Without this it's important to rework the maps that invalidate certain playstyles. For example I believe that Solaris is playable with LRMs but if the stats show that LRMs severely underperform on Solaris then that map should be reworked eventually.

[MechB Kotare]

Bamboozle Gold, on 22 December 2021 - 02:32 AM, said:

Having a map in rotation that invalidates certain playstyle entirely is bad. A reason why maps are getting reworked is to make sure all maps are more or less equal for every playstyle.

On this i dont agree. It merely just forced you to plan your movement and choose your momentum more wisely. This is being mostly said by people, who just like to run to the middle of a map, to shoot at close range asap. Best if they have an object all of them can rotate around.

I also wouldn't support the idea of changing the whole chassis. Rather being able to change only a variant of that chassis.

[Kotis77]

Bamboozle Gold, on 22 December 2021 - 02:32 AM, said:

Having a map in rotation that invalidates certain playstyle entirely is bad. A reason why maps are getting reworked is to make sure all maps are more or less equal for every playstyle.

Yeah. When they marketed this game back in the days "millions of ways to play and build mechs" And last 3 maps before outpost was just sniping and LRM maps. Game should have varieties to make it interesting. And we should have sniping and LRM maps too. And most of maps are spacious. So no for OG polar for me. We got enough of free space maps.

And my main issue with sniping is there is no counter on it for spacious maps that have no cover. So counter for sniping is sniping. And its so boring. Having played for last 3 years of 90% of spining in FP its just get boring. And i know how to play sniper weapons too. Thats my issue with sniping is. It was powerful without any buffs on them.

[pbiggz]

Kotis77, on 22 December 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Yeah. When they marketed this game back in the days "millions of ways to play and build mechs" And last 3 maps before outpost was just sniping and LRM maps. Game should have varieties to make it interesting. And we should have sniping and LRM maps too. And most of maps are spacious. So no for OG polar for me. We got enough of free space maps.

And my main issue with sniping is there is no counter on it for spacious maps that have no cover. So counter for sniping is sniping. And its so boring. Having played for last 3 years of 90% of spining in FP its just get boring. And i know how to play sniper weapons too. Thats my issue with sniping is. It was powerful without any buffs on them.

Without a pre-match dropdeck selection or lobby where you can change mechs, this 100%. As long as you don't have control over where you are being deployed, each map needs to offer options for all valid builds.

WITH a pre-match lobby, or drop decks, the calculus is different. Maps would become part of the problem, and solving them would involve selecting builds that perform on said map. Ideally this would also involve switching back on weather effects and environmental heat, but, i doubt that will ever happen.

old polar is basically just an ER large and LRM fest. It doesn't really offer much for any other builds. New polar has plenty of options for all builds. The fact that many end up devolving into a toiletbowl around the center isnt really the fault of the map, its the fault of the game modes, but that's another thread.

[Grenderos]

Yes, please bring old Polar Highlands map back. I too miss it.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

im have big visual problems with the new polar ,contrastless white in white im strumbling trough the Terrain and have problems to see Canyons and Traps ,have big Problems to becomes a tactical overview ,and the minimap is useless (like in the most Maps)teh same Problem by HPG (new/Old) or Uglyite with his contrastless Gray/gray or Brown/Brown Terrain thats all looks like fist steps from a Mapmaker., not like Canyon with Clear Levels ground/Leveling terrain

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 20 January 2022 - 09:20 PM.

[Weeny Machine]

Polar Highland Classic...in the current laser-vomit snipe era...if that happens I will just power down each and every match I get that map

[Meep Meep]

Weeny Machine, on 21 January 2022 - 03:07 PM, said:

Polar Highland Classic...in the current laser-vomit snipe era...if that happens I will just power down each and every match I get that map

Mega alpha snipe builds were never an issue on old polar because you had to expose yourself typically at close range to use it and the highest parts of the map are in the middle so you can't really snipe. Indirect fire weapons however were a pain if there wasn't enough ams.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Meep Meep, on 21 January 2022 - 11:47 PM, said:

Mega alpha snipe builds were never an issue on old polar because you had to expose yourself typically at close range to use it and the highest parts of the map are in the middle so you can't really snipe. Indirect fire weapons however were a pain if there wasn't enough ams.

eeeeh ..?! what?! ;D

why do you think erLL/erPPC builds are the norm on this map in faction? you srsly think these builds don't work in QP there too?
think again, bud

neither sniperbuilds nor midrange lasvom was ever a "problem" on polar-classic in QP; in fact, you can run almost anything there. problem is that the map is so boring, blunt and open for the most parts that
out of 24 players, a few suicide-rush-in, 16+ hide it out just to hide it out, and the rest is lurmboats showing off their skillset (aka: pressing a button, motivating others to 'get them a lock').

the map is horribad, because it triggers the exact wrong things in QP-players. I don't wanna see it again. ever.
may it burn in fire for eternity.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 22 January 2022 - 04:05 AM.

[Meep Meep]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 22 January 2022 - 04:03 AM, said:

eeeeh ..?! what?! ;D

why do you think erLL/erPPC builds are the norm on this map in faction? you srsly think these builds don't work in QP there too?
think again, bud

In my hundreds of qp matches on old polar I never had any issues with snipers because 90% of the fights were always in the valleys between the low hills. The only time you would get sniped is when you were dumb and went over a hill instead of around. Faction play is different because you have two organized teams coordinating via voip with a plan so a strat that uses snipers will be viable. In the mosh pit of qp? The best you can hope for is that the brownian motion doesn't disperse your team across half the map to be picked off in small groups and they stay semi organized vs the other sides mindless blob.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Meep Meep, on 22 January 2022 - 01:09 PM, said:

In my hundreds of qp matches on old polar I never had any issues with snipers because 90% of the fights were always in the valleys between the low hills. The only time you would get sniped is when you were dumb and went over a hill instead of around. Faction play is different because you have two organized teams coordinating via voip with a plan so a strat that uses snipers will be viable. In the mosh pit of qp? The best you can hope for is that the brownian motion doesn't disperse your team across half the map to be picked off in small groups and they stay semi organized vs the other sides mindless blob.

ofc FP is sth different; and ofc you can't "rely" on the rest - it's QP, by it's very definition full of solos who do whatever they want (which is often ~nothing~ and you can shoot them from afar, and also often is nascar - so you can still shoot them from afar).

longrange was (is) still VERY good and easy to pull off on that map. done that often, as have plenty of others.
and you'll see "those folks who do NOTHING but longrange" do it on a daily basis - and performing.
just because you can't rely on anybody doesn't mean you can't still do topdamage/kills EASILY in a longrange build on old-polar.

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 22 January 2022 - 02:07 PM.

[Meep Meep]

I'm simply saying that sniping wasn't a defining meta on the old map even if you could have some measure of success doing it yourself. Most of the time it was ring around the rosy pocket full of lrmsy at the center in a domination match.

[SharDar]

Kotis77, on 22 December 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

Yeah. When they marketed this game back in the days "millions of ways to play and build mechs" And last 3 maps before outpost was just sniping and LRM maps. Game should have varieties to make it interesting. And we should have sniping and LRM maps too. And most of maps are spacious. So no for OG polar for me. We got enough of free space maps.

And my main issue with sniping is there is no counter on it for spacious maps that have no cover. So counter for sniping is sniping. And its so boring. Having played for last 3 years of 90% of spining in FP its just get boring. And i know how to play sniper weapons too. Thats my issue with sniping is. It was powerful without any buffs on them.

Having a map that strongly favors a particular weapon type or style of play unduly punishes the people whose mechs don't into that category. My Piranha's have a tough time on Alpine Peaks and the old Polar Highlands. Crossing open ground to get close enough for my short range weapons is really, really hard.

Instead of taking maps like this out of the rotation, I like the idea that someone else pitched about using drop decks to better match your mech to the selected map. The deck would be composed of 4 mechs in the same weight class so the match mater doesn't have to account for weight disparity. That would allow me to have my ER Micro Laser Piranha and my ER Med Laser Flea in the deck, so that I can choose a mech that better suits the chosen map.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Meep Meep, on 22 January 2022 - 02:08 PM, said:

I'm simply saying that sniping wasn't a defining meta on the old map even if you could have some measure of success doing it yourself. Most of the time it was ring around the rosy pocket full of lrmsy at the center in a domination match.

you either seem to successfully blend out every polar-match that was NOT domination, or you have had some really strange matches, as longrange isn't and never was something that was uncommon on polar, or in the game in general.




@ QP - drop decks is a terrible idea, sorry.

knowing what map comes up limits variety in mechs that will be used dramatically, and on top of that 'builds'.
can you imagine what games look like once you know what map/mode it's gonna be?
-imagine canyon- not that bad, eh?
-now imagine hpg- eh... we're getting there.
-and now picture classic polar- .. guess now you get it.

and now picture playing that not with 2 hopefully competent teams trying to outdo each other (aka faction), but with ~20 QP-special-snowflakes. just nah. you'd have to pay me for playing in that sh*tshow

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 22 January 2022 - 03:24 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

SharDar, on 22 January 2022 - 02:16 PM, said:

Instead of taking maps like this out of the rotation, I like the idea that someone else pitched about using drop decks to better match your mech to the selected map. The deck would be composed of 4 mechs in the same weight class so the match mater doesn't have to account for weight disparity. That would allow me to have my ER Micro Laser Piranha and my ER Med Laser Flea in the deck, so that I can choose a mech that better suits the chosen map.

‘Disagree. Having an ability to never suffer a downside for a hyper-specialized build effectively eliminates all drawbacks for specializing. You want to play a mech that is death incarnate at 300m or less and can’t do jack at 450m, go for it, just realize that you will have to figure out how to get within that range in certain situations. Ditto with a lurm lord or a sniperzilla.

You want to see crazy matches, give people the opportunity to swap mechs out with a drop deck once they know what kind of map they’re on… you will ELIMINATE build variety entirely. Oh sure, each player still has many kinds of mechs, but when HPG comes up there would be 10 snipers on each team. When Solaris City pops up, every mech on the team has 70 point alphas (or higher) and can’t hurt a fly at 800m.

so, no. Diasagree.

[Seelenlos]

as MEEP MEEP says and MORE

BRING ALL THE MAPS BACK IN ROTATION!

[B O O M E R A N G]

I just want the cool faction play map with the big blue sun and red ground on my quick play

[Meep Meep]

Captain Caveman DE, on 22 January 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

you either seem to successfully blend out every polar-match that was NOT domination, or you have had some really strange matches, as longrange isn't and never was something that was uncommon on polar, or in the game in general.

I'd say the majority of my play on old polar was domination with assault and conquest coming in distant second and third. Skirmish was rare because no one wanted to chase down the last light mech. I also never said there wasn't sniping. Only that it wasn't oppressive at the time like it is now. But I'm not complaining about sniping as I do it myself. I just want old polar back in rotation is all.

[Grenderos]

I never found sniping a problem with this map. LRM:s on the other hand... but that's why we have Corsairs!

Ok, granted, skirmish with this map is PITA. Problem solved if skirmish is not offered with map voting if Polar Highlands Classic is on the selection?

In my opinnion this map is good because it forces you to use terrain cover. For some reason I do not like these new maze-like maps, renewed Polar Highlands is a good example of that.

[Brom96]

I have never had any issues with any builds on old Polar. From machine gun Urbie builds (which were the most effective ones for me, not lrm boats) to Raven 2x.

As for not having maps that prevent some ways of playing. How I am effective in Solaris City with my ATM builds? Let me help you folks, not at all. And that damn place I see much more often then I ever did old Polar.

On the bright side, I see new Polar maybe once a week, and I do not even try playing there. I just go and hope to be kileld as soon as possible.