43 replies to this topic

[Corbantu]

I've been running a vindicator with 1 heavy PPC. I like the way it looks on my mech, but it feels weak in comparison to an ER PPC (rate of fire), or using a combo of LPPCs. The higher damage of the HPPC doesn't feel like it's enough to offset the long cool down and heavy weight.

What's the opinion of all the big brains who play this game?

[Curccu]

Corbantu, on 31 December 2021 - 05:51 AM, said:

I've been running a vindicator with 1 heavy PPC. I like the way it looks on my mech, but it feels weak in comparison to an ER PPC (rate of fire), or using a combo of LPPCs. The higher damage of the HPPC doesn't feel like it's enough to offset the long cool down and heavy weight.

What's the opinion of all the big brains who play this game?

Firstly single ER or HPPC for main weapon for 45 tonner is not enough.
HPPC gives you more DPS than ERPPC but I would use probably stack of normal PPCs or LPPCs.
Which Vindicator variant btw?

[w0qj]

One approach (as per OP's original posting) is to equip the smallest mech with 1x Heavy-PPC for extra mobility.
But you've got to ensure enough DHS for reasonably quick cooling.

The other approach is to equip as many Heavy-PPC as allowed.
There are a number of new IS Assault mechs with +1 HSL Heavy-PPC which are only now being explored.

eg:
MAD-6S: +1 HSL PPC Family, and also +1 HSL ERPPC
AWS-9M: +1 HSL PPC Family
AWS-8Q: +1 HSL PPC Family (this one is the grand daddy of this trend)

I feel that any mech below 80ton is too light to carry 3x Heavy-PPC even if it has +1 HSL PPC Family (I'm looking you, TDR-9S & WHM-4L). But these are very early Wild West days; who knows

Update HSL Quirk List
https://mwomercs.com...-hsl-quirk-list

[pattonesque]

grimmechs has something like this on the -1AA if that's what you've got:

https://mwo.nav-alph...=ff3d8c_VND-1AA

[pbiggz]

PPCs scale well. Some better than others but generally they all do. One isn't enough.

[KaptinOrk]

The HPPC just feels worse than 3xLPPC, it's heavier, has lower damage/DPS and still has a hard minimum range.

IMO, it needs to lose the minimum range and run slightly cooler.

[Ignatius Audene]

cant compare. HPPC are not intented to bring as 1. They are for high mounted alpha to save slot over ppc. Like on Grasshopper H with 2 hppc 5 meds.

[ScrapIron Prime]

I'm more inclined to go regular PPC's instead of Heavies now that PPC's can do (some) damage under 90m. Heavies can't. 3 PPC is only 1 more ton than 2 HPPC, same damage, better at under 90m, about the same heat, 4 second cooldown as opposed to 5.

[w0qj]

+1
If your mech cannot hold 2 or 3 Heavy-PPC that is high mounted and with proper cooling, then Heavy-PPC is not suitable for your mech.

2-3 Heavy-PPC is used to poke holes in Assaults, for other team members to exploit/kill.
With 5-second cooldown, your Heavy-PPC mech won't be doing many kills.

If your mech can only hold 1x Heavy-PPC, strongly use other weapon systems.

Ignatius Audene, on 31 December 2021 - 09:12 AM, said:

cant compare. HPPC are not intented to bring as 1. They are for high mounted alpha to save slot over ppc. Like on Grasshopper H with 2 hppc 5 meds.

[1453 R]

Worth nothing, even beyond simply what mix of PPCs to take:

A 'Mech with a smallish number of PPCs as its primary armament isn't necessarily like other snipers. A triple light peep Vindicator, as one example, doesn't get to peek and poke and scrimp and hide and carefully take shots. To get proper value out of that 'Mech you need to be very aggressive with it and fire those guns all the time. You only do fifteen damage per click - you'll need to apply that fifteen damage much more often than other people lay out their fifty-damage spikes in order to properly impact the match.

People often think small, nimble PPC snipers like Adders are supposed to be sneaky, hidey 'Mechs that only take safe, carefully aimed shots. Nah. You need to be slinging lightning with wild abandon, taking every damn shot you can get, and if you can't get a shot you need to be actively angling towards getting a shot as soon as you can. That's the way you should be playing in general anyways, but it's critical on a low-alpha PPC pocket-sniper robit. If you don't lay that 15 damage out three times as often as anybody else shoots, your impact on the match will be negligible and your match score will be dismal.

[martian]

KaptinOrk, on 31 December 2021 - 09:10 AM, said:

The HPPC just feels worse than 3xLPPC, it's heavier, has lower damage/DPS and still has a hard minimum range.

IMO, it needs to lose the minimum range and run slightly cooler.

Three Light PPCs need 6 slots on your 'Mech total, while Heavy PPC needs just 4 slots.

On 'Mechs already packed with endo steel, ferro-fibrous armor and double heat sinks, even those two "free" slots can be useful.

[ScrapIron Prime]

1453 R, on 31 December 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

A 'Mech with a smallish number of PPCs as its primary armament isn't necessarily like other snipers. A triple light peep Vindicator, as one example, doesn't get to peek and poke and scrimp and hide and carefully take shots. To get proper value out of that 'Mech you need to be very aggressive with it and fire those guns all the time. You only do fifteen damage per click - you'll need to apply that fifteen damage much more often than other people lay out their fifty-damage spikes in order to properly impact the match.

This indeed.

You can hit 500 damage in a match with a 50 point strike by just scoring 10 hits. Doable for most players unless they get murdered early. But if you've got a 15 point main gun, you have to hit with it about 33 times to score 500 damage. At this point, match length (and the ever increasing chance of being murdered) gets in your way. Be aggressive or be happy with lower damage games.
As I keep saying in my Jenners with 4 LPPC... dang, that was a lot of work for only 300 damage. =(

[Primal Fusion]

IMO Heavy PPC(with something else) generally works out better than light ppcs, cooldown doesn't matter so much if your popshotting.
Strictly speaking your alpha will be higher but so will your cooldown, meaning less exposure time for the same or more overall dps.
Even on something like the uziel with the light ppc hsl/cooldown i feel the dmg is lacking in comparison unless you get free rein on a large group of enemies who ignore you completely.

[Saved By The Bell]

2 Heavy PPC is laugh, until you got killed in 1 shot in cockpit... It happens.

[PocketYoda]

Heavy PPCs are the worst of the bunch now the rest have been updated.. you'd be better off with light, ER, or even snubs over heavy PPCs or standard PPCs.. both have the minimum range issue and are far too hot and heavy to be effective.. Even two heavy PPCs are out done by ER PPC or Light PPCs..

To be honest op you are better of ditching the lot and adding lasers of some type..

[MikeBend]

Primal Fusion, on 31 December 2021 - 04:48 PM, said:

IMO Heavy PPC(with something else) generally works out better than light ppcs, cooldown doesn't matter so much if your popshotting.
Strictly speaking your alpha will be higher but so will your cooldown, meaning less exposure time for the same or more overall dps.
Even on something like the uziel with the light ppc hsl/cooldown i feel the dmg is lacking in comparison unless you get free rein on a large group of enemies who ignore you completely.

That one time on River City, when i got an accidental headshot on a guy across the pond in my twin HPPC Trebuchet hero... I truly felt sorry for the guy, especially it being first blood in the match.

As for OP question - yeah, one PPC is too much investment for too little return. Unless you are running some funny build, like an ECM Pirates Bane with an ERPPC

[Corbantu]

This has been a lot of good advice and confirmed what I was suspecting (I was worried I was just aplaying wrong). I'm gonna go ahead and drop the 1 HPPC and try experimenting with different builds. Sadly I liked the ascetic look of 1 HPPC. :-( .

Above someone mentioned going lasers instead of PPC, the vindicator feels kinda tanks for a medium. Perhaps I should make it more brawly?

My vindicator is a 1AA (if memory serves right).

Thank you big brains!

[letir]

Corbantu, on 01 January 2022 - 08:18 AM, said:

This has been a lot of good advice and confirmed what I was suspecting (I was worried I was just aplaying wrong). I'm gonna go ahead and drop the 1 HPPC and try experimenting with different builds. Sadly I liked the ascetic look of 1 HPPC. :-( .

Above someone mentioned going lasers instead of PPC, the vindicator feels kinda tanks for a medium. Perhaps I should make it more brawly?

My vindicator is a 1AA (if memory serves right).

Thank you big brains!

Vindicator 1AA have rather epic cooldown quirks, it's best served with MRM:
https://mwo.nav-alph...bdcee44_VND-1AA

[w0qj]

Getting back on topic of Heavy-PPC, on my Champion mech:

Vindicator VND-1AA with 2x Heavy-PPC:
http://VND-1AA with 2x Heavy-PPC

Vindicator VND-1AA with 2x ERPPC:
http://VND-1AA with 2x ERPPC

[ScrapIron Prime]

letir, on 01 January 2022 - 08:25 AM, said:

Vindicator 1AA have rather epic cooldown quirks, it's best served with MRM:
https://mwo.nav-alph...bdcee44_VND-1AA

Seconded. That's how I run it. 25% cooldown on an MRM 40 is just nice. not PPC's, but nice.