32 replies to this topic

[GoodTry]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2022 - 06:37 PM, said:

This is gonna sound harsh - most of the people complaining about snipefests or it's dominating the game are simply playing poorly. That's the crux of it. Play better, learn from your mistakes, it will be less of an issue for you.

I think people are fundamentally complaining that the game changed. Brawl used to be more effective in QP, now long-range play is equally effective, and people are moving more towards mid to long range.

[ScrapIron Prime]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2022 - 06:37 PM, said:

This comes back to low skill play in that so many believe MWO is all about "push push push". It isn't. Use your brain, don't go:

• Charging around corners if you don't know what is there
  
• Cresting over a hill blindly or walking into areas that are essentially killboxes/killbowls on maps.

Anything I pilot that moves slower than 70 kph is going to be equipped with a UAV over an arty/air strike at all times. I'm not losing a torso to rounding the wrong corner. If I'm going first, pop UAV and THEN decide.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 10 January 2022 - 07:46 PM.

[Capt Deadpool]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2022 - 06:37 PM, said:

In addition to this if I am playing long range, or anything for that matter, the amount of people that I see blindly bumbling about across 1000m of open ground is hilarious if not sad.

If you are going to do that then of course anyone with ranged weapons is going ensure you have a hard time.

This comes back to low skill play in that so many believe MWO is all about "push push push". It isn't. Use your brain, don't go:

• Charging around corners if you don't know what is there
  
• Cresting over a hill blindly or walking into areas that are essentially killboxes/killbowls on maps.
  
• LOOK for long range fire. If you see it heading into an area you are going into perhaps stop and don't go there? You are just going to get farmed.

This is gonna sound harsh - most of the people complaining about snipefests or it's dominating the game are simply playing poorly. That's the crux of it. Play better, learn from your mistakes, it will be less of an issue for you.

Lol true. Hard to remember that many people who are complaining lack the basic fundamentals. If you ever found yourself extremely bored and with too much time on your hands, Ash, you or Bear or someone who makes vids should make a “MWO fundamentals” video series, one video for every forum topic that gets brought up endlessly (how to fight lights, how to stay with your team in an assault, how to deal with snipers, how to deal with ecm, tactics for countering nascar, how not to get lurmed to death, etc.) Then have PGI sticky it at the top of general discussion because the other thousand sub-forums here are dead.

There are probably YouTube vids on this stuff already, but most streamers/YouTubers lack good fundamentals themselves…

Something like this should really be linked to in-game for players as: Phase Two of The Academy after they complete the existing Academy tutorial.

PGI should really pay one of the more skilled Cauldron folks to do this, but yeah, resources…

[SharDar]

In my last game we played the manifold and the 4 "assault" mechs on my team were all on the wall plus one who was a disconnect. That leaves damn little tonnage in the middle to try to do anything, particularly with their snipers long-range mechs on the walls keeping us pinned down.

Instead of arguing whether this happens or not, what do you suggest I do with a mech loaded with SRMs? How should I play this?

As a side note, I would like to note that the tone of these discussions gets pretty negative very quickly. Can't we be a little more positive when discussing this stuff? Demanding proof is not really helpful. It's too hard to get screenshots when I'm trying to play. Can you please just accept that I'm not lying? Also, when we post about perceptions, we realize that is not proof. But enough people with similar perceptions seem worthy of consideration.

[DaZur]

Capt Deadpool, on 10 January 2022 - 01:24 PM, said:

A few tips for those struggling with snipers:

1. First, understand that snipers aren’t really dominating anything even if there are way more of them than there used to be due to weapon/map changes. The only time they really dominate is if there is a coordinated 3 or 4 man in max tonnage meta builds who know the optimal tactical positions to hold on each map AND effectively use comms/commands to coordinate their team into holding a position where they can provide cover. This happens rarely and there are only a couple groups that even do this regularly/effectively.

2. After you recognize the enemy strategy, use comms/commands yourself to get your team to hold a defensible position on the map that eliminates/mitigates the snipers’ sight lines and force an engagement location of your choosing, not theirs. Sometimes your team may nascar anyway, many times they won’t.

3. Play a speedy ecm/stealth light or medium either alone or with 1 or more players and eat the snipers from behind. At the very least, force the snipers to stay facing you instead of your team.

4. Grab a triple er-ppc veagle and play counter-sniper. The mobility and pop tart-ability of the veagle can EASILY suppress an entire group of snipers and keep them focused on you instead of your team by pelting them non-stop with with triple ppc blasts to the ct. They will be forced to focus you; that’s what you want. Just use cover appropriately and reposition after every shot. If you’re getting hit more than you are hitting them, you are doing it wrong.

There you go, no more sniper problems.

Allow me to summarize... "Do ANYTHING different than you are currently doing and shut the door on the complaint department".

[Meep Meep]

SharDar, on 11 January 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

It's too hard to get screenshots when I'm trying to play.

Pressing a button is too hard? You can even install third party screenshot grabbers that will store multiple screencaps so all you have to do is press the hotkey whenever something you feel is fishy happens then you can upload them to an image site to post here. If you have an nvidia gpu you can use the built in shadowplay to record your games.

[Weeny Machine]

SharDar, on 11 January 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

In my last game we played the manifold and the 4 "assault" mechs on my team were all on the wall plus one who was a disconnect. That leaves damn little tonnage in the middle to try to do anything, particularly with their snipers long-range mechs on the walls keeping us pinned down.

Instead of arguing whether this happens or not, what do you suggest I do with a mech loaded with SRMs? How should I play this?

As a side note, I would like to note that the tone of these discussions gets pretty negative very quickly. Can't we be a little more positive when discussing this stuff? Demanding proof is not really helpful. It's too hard to get screenshots when I'm trying to play. Can you please just accept that I'm not lying? Also, when we post about perceptions, we realize that is not proof. But enough people with similar perceptions seem worthy of consideration.

This is basically the problem. There are usually two lines and play whack-a-mole. When lights, which mostly have short-range weaponry, try to do anything they take damage or have to run off quickly once firing and most likely take damage as well...or get killed by other lights who are bored sitting behind the lines.

The light mech class has become more and more obsolete. The bigger lights can take some more damage but they are not agile enough, thanks to the changes on attributed with the skill tree addition and the re-sizing, to dodge much damage.

Currently the only advantage is you get faster from point A to B (in most lights) and trade it for...less dps/alpha, less structure, less armour, etc


Brawling in general: I still think that when a brawler comes into range, it is game over for the sniper. However, they suffer of course also heavily from the whack-a-mole style played currently

[ScrapIron Prime]

SharDar, on 11 January 2022 - 08:45 AM, said:

In my last game we played the manifold and the 4 "assault" mechs on my team were all on the wall plus one who was a disconnect. That leaves damn little tonnage in the middle to try to do anything, particularly with their snipers long-range mechs on the walls keeping us pinned down.

Instead of arguing whether this happens or not, what do you suggest I do with a mech loaded with SRMs? How should I play this?

A short range mech on this map has to be patient and know where [not] to stand. You press R, you spot targets, you work with your team to slowly grind away the ones in weapon range. to get the snipers, you might actually be the distraction that lets your long range guys engage them. And when they do, when they make the snipers duck, you get closer. After the reds in the center have been dealt with first.

If your SRM brawler has some speed (I'm talking 90-110 kph) you can take the long way, get up on that wall and brawl with an isolated sniper... its remarkably easy, especially if you tell your team you're doing it and please put suppression/distraction fire on the guy you're about to jump. this works great for dervishes and arctic wolves, not so good for bigger, slower SRM mechs.

[Gas Guzzler]

SharDar, on 09 January 2022 - 05:41 AM, said:

You're right. I probably shouldn't lump those in together. While the missiles may not have changed, it does feel like they are more prevalent. Maybe there are more assault mechs using them providing larger torrents? I don't know. I'll adapt. I was just curious.

Well keep in mind there is an event going on that requires 8000 missile damage, so LRM usage may have spiked for that.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 January 2022 - 11:23 AM, said:

Well keep in mind there is an event going on that requires 8000 missile damage, so LRM usage may have spiked for that.

I use MRM's for that. more reliable. Especially with how often folks are choosing Solaris City.

[SharDar]

Meep Meep, on 11 January 2022 - 10:36 AM, said:

Pressing a button is too hard? You can even install third party screenshot grabbers that will store multiple screencaps so all you have to do is press the hotkey whenever something you feel is fishy happens then you can upload them to an image site to post here. If you have an nvidia gpu you can use the built in shadowplay to record your games.

This is an example of the negative tone I was talking about. No, pushing a button is not too hard, but a random screen shot doesn't really show much. It's hard to get one with the info necessary to prove a point. Even if I did, it gets shouted down as one screen shot. It's really not worth the effort and distraction during a battle.

I guess it's probably best to avoid these discussions. I do appreciate those who have suggested tactics to deal with the situation. I'll give those a try. I'm always interested in learning to be a better player. Not so enthused about learning how to take screen shots.

[ScrapIron Prime]

SharDar, on 11 January 2022 - 12:10 PM, said:

This is an example of the negative tone I was talking about. No, pushing a button is not too hard, but a random screen shot doesn't really show much. It's hard to get one with the info necessary to prove a point. Even if I did, it gets shouted down as one screen shot. It's really not worth the effort and distraction during a battle.

I guess it's probably best to avoid these discussions. I do appreciate those who have suggested tactics to deal with the situation. I'll give those a try. I'm always interested in learning to be a better player. Not so enthused about learning how to take screen shots.

The key thing to take a snapshot of is the end screen where it shows everyone's scores and mechs. The match summary will tell you who's playing, who's grouped with whom, who carried the team, and give you a rough idea of what builds were used because you know generally what mechs are good for which load-outs.

[Michael Abt]

It is also my observation that the amount of snipers has increased. If someone collects data, or checks existing data, it would reveal just that, i am certain.

There is also the general observation that TTK went down. In another thread justcallme A S H wrote that the data shows that the match time went up though. That could be an indication that the long range engagement phase in the beginning of a match takes longer, and/or that the last mech standing on the losing team is an elusive sniper more often now.

However, the real question is what the threshhold is for a match turning it into a snipefest. One lance per side? Or two? Three?

Personally I strongly believe that it takes only very few snipers per team to greatly impact the dynamics of a match, depending on the map, naturally.