13 replies to this topic

[SharDar]

In many matches, we have teams on opposite sides of a ridge. I hear different things from players about peeking. Some say, “Let them come to us.” Others say, “Aggression rules.” I’ve seen coordinated pushes absolutely demolish static lines, but it’s hard to coordinate those. Too often I wind up being Leroy Jenkins except no one follows me—despite calling for the push on the coms. I’ve had some success with fast mechs making quick peeks for an alpha strike, but I’ve also been wiped out taking damage doing this.
What are your thoughts on this? Are there times when one strategy is better? If so, how do you know when that is?

[Gagis]

Its all down to situational awareness, the hardest skill in MWO. Identifying opportunities is hard, but fun.

I am still bad at it.

Edited by Gagis, 13 January 2022 - 10:26 PM.

[Meep Meep]

Peeking works until you get predictable and they preaim at your position. Typically you only want to peek once then move to another position so when you peek again they have to shift aim. Third person view comes in handy here so you can 'cheat' and see around corners without exposing yourself to return fire. The little cam bot can give you away but is kinda hard to see across the map especially if you switch in and out of it fast. Vertical peeking over a ridge is preferrable if you have high mounts as you expose far less of your mech to return fire. Some mechs have incredibly good high mounts so only the cockpit and weapons are exposed making for a very hard target and one that sometimes doesn't show up on the radar due to how the game does its targeting mechanics. Horizontal peeking is less safe as you have to expose more of your mech but some hardpoint positions pretty much require it to get all your weapons in play.

[Capt Deadpool]

As always, OP, it depends.

Where both teams are holding opposite sides of a ridgeline, I have played long enough to assess my team’s tonnage compared to the other team’s, to assess the skill disparity by looking at names before the game starts, and to assess when I am scouting whether the enemy is in sufficient numbers and in an effective formation to repel a push, and if there are any bottlenecks that can be used.

If I see the enemy is not yet massed on their side and we are, I will call a push. If we have significantly more skill on our team than the enemy, I will usually call a push. If the enemy has significantly more skill, I will call a hold. If the enemy has significantly more tonnage, I will call a hold (or just have us reposition entirely). If we have more tonnage, it depends what my mood is . If there is a possibility of enticing an enemy through a bottleneck, I will call a hold. If it appears to be a dead-even stalemate I will call a hold, try to force the enemy to peek first, and either alone or with a wolf pack try to pick off one or two skirmishes to force the enemy to abandon their defensive position.

This is only part of the picture though. If we have an effective flanking squad, I will call a push when we have effectively engaged the enemy from a flank and have a number of the turned. If we have effective snipers that can cover our position if the enemy pushes, I will most certainly call hold. If the enemy has effective snipers covering their position, I will usually lead a wolf pack to take them out and then let my team know when it is safe to push.

Alternatively, you can have your own team fall back further from the ridgeline to a position that is more defensible; there is no rule that says to must stay in a stalemate situation

I can make these calls because I am usually in something fast and I usually am the first to assess what the enemy is doing and what they want to do. If you don’t have anyone on your team that knows what the enemy is doing and no one is communicating or acting cohesively, it leads to what you have experienced: people either playing too timidly or people leeroying. To paraphrase Sun Tzu: If you know your enemy but not yourself, you will win some battles and lose some. Likewise if you know yourself and not your enemy. Know yourself and know thy enemy, and you need not fear the outcome of a thousand battles.

Edited by Capt Deadpool, 14 January 2022 - 12:40 AM.

[Meep Meep]

The free hunchy in the event is a good trainer for peeking and pop tarting with its excellent shoulder hardpoints. At 400m your exposed parts will basically be a few pixels and you can apply your alpha at your leisure.

[Captain Caveman DE]

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2022 - 12:45 AM, said:

The free hunchy in the event is a good trainer for peeking and pop tarting with its excellent shoulder hardpoints. At 400m your exposed parts will basically be a few pixels and you can apply your alpha at your leisure.

that hunchie is SEVERELY undergunned imo. slap a few more (like in 4) erML on it to have more fun (maybe only 3+ while your skilling it at the start)

Edited by Captain Caveman DE, 14 January 2022 - 04:58 AM.

[DaZur]

Generally peeking/poking is a gambit... Very situational for success.

It's all about shoot-n-scoot and having high situational awareness, map knowledge and mechs that can be maximized in this role.

Generally when I seek peek/pokers struggle they:

1.) Stay static. If you peek more than once or twice from the same spot you are going to feel the wrath from someone who recognizes this and places his reticle at the spot and alphas your noodle the next time you peek.

2.) Are singularly focused/oblivious to what's going on around them. You find a good peek/poke spot and and you become fixated on a target... And are oblivious to the lights flanking your butt or the UAV overhead or the mech that has called you out as a target.

Long and short if you choose the peek/poke role, early on in the match you are a harasser and target spotter. Your kills (assuming you survive long enough) usually come mid to late match after the enemy team has taken enough damage for your pokes to hurt.

These are my observations and opinions... Mileage does vary.

[Meep Meep]

Captain Caveman DE, on 14 January 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

that hunchie is SEVERELY undergunned imo. slap a few more (like in 4) erML on it to have more fun (maybe only 3+ while your skilling it at the start)

It depends on how you want to play it. I could drop the engine a size or two and a couple of sinks for the extra er meds but the other hardpoints are mid mounted and you have to fully expose to use them which is a bit detrimental to the peeking game as its not the best mech for absorbing fire. The extra heat means you will spend half your time cooling off again. This gets a 49 alpha and you can apply it over and over with plenty of heat bar to put out multiple salvos and plenty of cooling to bring it back down even with liberal jj usage.

[SharDar]

Meep Meep, on 13 January 2022 - 10:33 PM, said:

The little cam bot can give you away but is kinda hard to see across the map especially if you switch in and out of it fast.

This is a GREAT suggestion! When I play MechWarrior 5 I use 3rd person almost exclusively for the extra field of view, but in MWO it makes me kind of motion sick. Plus, the top players don't seem to use it. But switching on and off to get a quick view is an awesome idea.

[SharDar]

DaZur, on 14 January 2022 - 06:46 AM, said:

Generally peeking/poking is a gambit... Very situational for success.

It's all about shoot-n-scoot and having high situational awareness, map knowledge and mechs that can be maximized in this role.

Generally when I seek peek/pokers struggle they:

1.) Stay static. If you peek more than once or twice from the same spot you are going to feel the wrath from someone who recognizes this and places his reticle at the spot and alphas your noodle the next time you peek.

2.) Are singularly focused/oblivious to what's going on around them. You find a good peek/poke spot and and you become fixated on a target... And are oblivious to the lights flanking your butt or the UAV overhead or the mech that has called you out as a target.

Long and short if you choose the peek/poke role, early on in the match you are a harasser and target spotter. Your kills (assuming you survive long enough) usually come mid to late match after the enemy team has taken enough damage for your pokes to hurt.

These are my observations and opinions... Mileage does vary.

Yeah, I struggle with both of those problems. I'll work on it. Thanks!

[Captain Caveman DE]

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2022 - 07:02 AM, said:

It depends on how you want to play it. I could drop the engine a size or two and a couple of sinks for the extra er meds but the other hardpoints are mid mounted and you have to fully expose to use them which is a bit detrimental to the peeking game as its not the best mech for absorbing fire. The extra heat means you will spend half your time cooling off again. This gets a 49 alpha and you can apply it over and over with plenty of heat bar to put out multiple salvos and plenty of cooling to bring it back down even with liberal jj usage.

If you say so. If it works for you, more power to you.

SharDar, on 13 January 2022 - 10:16 PM, said:

In many matches, we have teams on opposite sides of a ridge. I hear different things from players about peeking. Some say, “Let them come to us.” Others say, “Aggression rules.” I’ve seen coordinated pushes absolutely demolish static lines, but it’s hard to coordinate those. Too often I wind up being Leroy Jenkins except no one follows me—despite calling for the push on the coms. I’ve had some success with fast mechs making quick peeks for an alpha strike, but I’ve also been wiped out taking damage doing this.
What are your thoughts on this? Are there times when one strategy is better? If so, how do you know when that is?

it really depends;
you're talking quickplay here, that's the problem.
with a coordinated team in faction/comp, you can set for either one of those strategies; with QP, it is usually best to just adapt.
you have no control over how your team or the red team behaves, so there's no golden rule on that;
-other than: always keep your heatsinks busy (aka: shoot stuff), and try to stay alive.

outside of mwo-qp and other online-multiplayer-yolo-chaos, it is generally a good strat to be the one with initiative;
push your advantage where it is, hold your ground where you can and retreat where you must.
as long as you're the one dictating the flow of the game, things generally will go your way; sitting and waiting otoh invites desaster

[1453 R]

Meep Meep, on 14 January 2022 - 07:02 AM, said:

It depends on how you want to play it. I could drop the engine a size or two and a couple of sinks for the extra er meds but the other hardpoints are mid mounted and you have to fully expose to use them which is a bit detrimental to the peeking game as its not the best mech for absorbing fire. The extra heat means you will spend half your time cooling off again. This gets a 49 alpha and you can apply it over and over with plenty of heat bar to put out multiple salvos and plenty of cooling to bring it back down even with liberal jj usage.

Presuming the build looks like this, the issue is that you have effectively no ability to output pressure. Heavy large lasers are one of my favorite weapons, I use them all the time. They have [redacted] long cooldowns, their overall DPS is very low, and all you have sidecar'd to them are those two ERML. The 'Mech is very good as a hill-peeking midrange-ish trader, but it has no [redacted] button, no ability to repel enemies or put pressure on targets. The build is very heat-efficient, yes, and can be good at outputting consistent damage, but you don't have the component-chopping madlad burst alpha numbers of a more conventional laser spike design. It means you're extremely vulnerable and also not really any help if you can't find a good hill to poke from.

If that's not a concern to you and you've been doing work with the low-damage, heat-efficient configuration? Awesome! One of my best-performing 'Mechs is a machine the meta folks would consider to be absolute hot screaming garbage, but it simply works for me so I fail to care. I know what it can do and I know what it can't. If this Hunchback fit is your sweet spot, fantastic. Just gotta be aware of what it can do (poke/trade with high efficiency) and what it can't do (secure kills, push, or generate pressure).

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 20 January 2022 - 11:38 PM.

[Meep Meep]

The op was expressing trouble with peeking and I tossed out an easy to use mobile fit with a nice 50 point alpha you can keep dishing out. If he feels its a bit undergunned and more confident about peeking he can drop a couple of jj and a sink or lower the engine a rating or two etc and pop in more er meds.

[Flyby215]

SharDar, on 13 January 2022 - 10:16 PM, said:

In many matches, we have teams on opposite sides of a ridge. I hear different things from players about peeking. Some say, “Let them come to us.” Others say, “Aggression rules.” I’ve seen coordinated pushes absolutely demolish static lines, but it’s hard to coordinate those. Too often I wind up being Leroy Jenkins except no one follows me—despite calling for the push on the coms. I’ve had some success with fast mechs making quick peeks for an alpha strike, but I’ve also been wiped out taking damage doing this.
What are your thoughts on this? Are there times when one strategy is better? If so, how do you know when that is?

If you have a high pain tolerance, try playing a mid-range light mech, not the brawly type. You tend to learn pretty quick to keep mental tabs on where enemies are, what their loadouts might be, and where they are looking. Peaking the same corner or hill more than once might be safe if no one is looking at you; but be wary that it's certainly not just your target that might be lining up a shot on you. I've made that mistake in spectacular fashion many a time