51 replies to this topic

[P H O T O N]

Clearly the match-maker is broken. I have a proposal of how it might be fixed.

Proposal

Firstly, match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.

Match-making is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.

There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.

The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 19 January 2022 - 05:42 AM.

[P H O T O N]

On the issue of the match-maker
I have included below stats for 4 excellent mechs, but when I pilot them, more often than not the team loses. Something is seriously wrong. The builds are good, I do well. It can only be the match-maker as this is a team game.





UM-R80(L): W/L ratio of 0.15. I do an average of 471 damage which is very good in a light when the games are mostly lost!

TDR-5SS: W/L ratio of 0.69. I do an average of 455 damage (and a K/D ratio of 1.39) which is good when the games are mostly lost!

MAD-IIC-A: W/L ratio of 0.44. I do an average damage of 512 which is good when the games are mostly lost! This build is not yet skilled too!

WVR-7K: W/L ratio of 0.24. I do an average of 461 damage which is good in a medium when the games are mostly lost!

And a mech I haven't (yet) done so well in, but when I pilot it, the team also usually loses!



PXH-7S(S): W/L ratio of 0.24.

How can any of this be explained unless the match-maker is broken? I am not going around killing my whole team believe me!

I'd like to think that I am not such a horrible pilot that when for example I play a certain mech (Urbie!) the team only has a 13% chance of winning just because I'm crap! The stats show I generally do well. The team just collapses like a flan in a cupboard. This is the match-maker.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 19 January 2022 - 07:32 AM.

[P H O T O N]

Further ruminations on the match-maker

The match-maker in the game is so broken it needs to be urgently fixed otherwise the player base will shrink.

To elaborate: I often drop solo, or with my unit members (who are of mixed abilities and tiers) and am increasingly finding I am often involved in games where our team loses, and badly. As a top tier 1 player, it is quite clear to me that the teams are completely unbalanced, and it has now got to the point where I have grown despondent and am no longer enjoying the game as much as I did (which was a lot!).

Putting modesty aside for a moment, I am a decent player by all accounts, but that is now not born out in my stats. This season, my W/L ratio is significantly less than 1 and is currently sitting at 0.85, and the only way that can be accounted for is a poor match-maker as this is a team game and one MechWarrior alone cannot turn games at the top of tier 1!

As an individual pilot I still do well in the vast majority of games whether the team wins or loses, it is just not fun to be the last man, or one of the last men, standing all the time as my team crumbles around me! As a result of losing more games than I win, my average match score is also deflated as the same individual performance when the team loses is seemingly awarded less points than when the team wins.

Recently I started a Discord server for UK players in an attempt to help keep this game alive as I love it so much! In only a month the Discord server has grown to nearly 30 players and we see no sign of it slowing down.

The issue of the match-maker has become exacerbated in setting up this community. Lower tier players find it too difficult dropping in games with the likes of me as we are seemingly paired with top-ranked opposition and the teams are woefully imbalanced. We now no longer drop together as a result. There are countless others in my server like this.

As the straw to break the camel’s back, recently we had a player join our server and make derogatory remarks about other people's game stats, including my own W/L ratio. I explained to him that I have started the server and am focussed on growing the community and other people's game experience, I am most often dropping with rookies and in mixed tier games which seems to throw the match-maker, that the game is a team game and my W/L ratio is irrelevant as one player dropping on their own, or with rookies, cannot significantly influence the game outcome in tier 1. His comments riled me so much that it nearly led me to disband the community and leave the game. Instead, with the support of my community, I kicked him from the server - his abusive, arrogant, and ignorant attitude has no place in any community, and besides the irony of the situation was that his stats were worse than everyone else's!

In summary, something needs to change with the match-maker and soon. Related to which the player rating system needs an overhaul too. Currently there’s such a thing as Jarl’s list that endeavours to rank players but makes no compensation for a player’s tier, and the fact that high match scores are more difficult to achieve in the top tiers. It makes no compensation for a player’s W/L ratio, and the fact that high match scores are more difficult to achieve if your team loses. There are countless people out there who are judging other pilots based on Jarl’s – it’s a complete nonsense and it is damaging the community.

I would be most grateful if you could give me some reassurance that this is something you will take seriously and look to change?

I would also be grateful if you could explain how the match-making works?

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 19 January 2022 - 09:21 AM.

[sosegado]

I just found out this past weekend that higher tier players are having to drop as lesser tier alts in order to get into matches.

Some of you probably already knew that but I'm a casual weekend player and pretty clueless anyway.

I don't know what the wait time is for higher tier matches but it must be significant if they have to go slumming around in the bottom tiers as their alt pilot just to play the game.

This literally makes the match maker's reliance on psr/tiers entirely useless.

Edited by Stab Wound, 18 January 2022 - 04:59 PM.

[P H O T O N]

Stab Wound, on 18 January 2022 - 04:54 PM, said:

I don't know what the wait time is for higher tier matches but it must be significant if they have to go slumming around in the bottom tiers as their alt pilot just to play the game.

This literally makes the match maker's reliance on psr/tiers entirely useless.

Of alternate accounts and seal clubbing

I can tell you as a matter of fact that the wait time all the way at the top of tier 1 is low (of the order of seconds) and is perfectly acceptable. Very rarely there's a slightly longer wait time but that is the same at all tiers I am led to believe from my community. The reason why people have alternate accounts has nothing to do with wait times.

One reason why some players have (I personally do not but am aware of many who do) alternate accounts is to go 'seal clubbing'.

Figure 1: Seal clubbing in action. Here a frustrated tier 1 player vents his frustration with the match-maker on an unsuspecting cadet piloting a trial mech.

The other reason people run alternate accounts, is to have fun/test accounts where new builds are tested while trying to preserve their competitive account's stats, or so that drops can be made with lower tier friends while not pulling in higher tier opposition. Incidentally, I know many players of all skills and tiers who have alternate accounts, alternate accounts are not unique just to tier 1 players. Seal clubbers want to feel like demi-gods and massage their egos. They only feel the need to do this is because the match-maker is so clearly broken. Just look at my W/L ratio for the mechs above. As this is a team game, there is simply no way the stats can be explained unless the match-maker is broken. I guess it is stats like that which make people go seal clubbing in the first place so they can take out their frustrations!

Currently, the only way to mitigate the broken match-maker is to drop in a four-man with players of equal skill and tier and all be on comms working together. This is difficult for most people, who have jobs, families, and other commitments, and just want to get a few solo games in as they can while on childcare duties for example (like I often do). If PGI were to implement my proposed (and simple) match-maker, I don't think seal clubbing would be so rife, and every game would be more fair.

At the moment the new player experience is ruined by smurfs, and the experienced proficient player experience is ruined by the match-maker. The only people who are having a good time are the pro-players, but let me ask the question - who's paying them to make them count as pros?

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 19 January 2022 - 10:18 AM.

[GenOrtega]

There is plenty of evidence on social media about the behaviour of some very experienced players using alternative accounts to 'Seal Club' amongst other activities making use of this and also even forming Alt Groups to game the MM for their own entertainment at the expense of new players regardless of how 'cushioned' you would have us believe new players are to the game (and no I'm not going to name, names, you probably know who they are already, you just need to look at their Twitch, YouTube or whatever).

This is stating the obvious and the Elephant in the Room needs to be addressed properly by PGI as there is also a large vocal community of people new and old frustrated with how MM works. Even promoters and influencers have plenty to say on this topic and it's just going to keep on getting more and more vocal.

Frustration is not entirely the best advertising to potential new players to give your game a go PGI if it's vocalised across the very platforms you'd want to promote positive experiences in to attract more people to your product.

I can now more or less predict with some reasonable accuracy how a battle will fare just on the line up before the battle commences. Yes I can get it wrong, but its not as often and that to me is alarming; that something is very broken with MM and how the Group mechanic works in it (I suspect this is one of the factors but there are more and people have listed at length the case and the Mathematics).

There are plenty of games out there whose player base dried up to critical and failed because the development of the MM system that actually 'felt' fair by the experiences of the gamers did not happen and as a result the games eventually collapsed as their populations moved on.

I would seriously take heed of the call for change for the MM like the OP has stated. People are returning thanks to the efforts of the Cauldron and word of mouth about the Free Mechs and other promotions but that goes only so far before returning players like myself just simply have to say 'I gave it a go, I tried to get back into it but...'.

The one thing that keeps the game moving is Quick Play (yes new Mechs are nice and where does everyone go to show them off ehh?) of all the resources PGI need to focus on it would be to ensure they have a robust and perceptually fair system that deals not only with the low population spread out over the Tiers and Tiers is where I see the 'Rod' built by the Developers 'for their Backs'. It needs to be future safe for a building population should the fortunes of the game change and that happen.

There are several very successful games with MM systems and Ranking systems far more better received and therefore better subscribed to. I suspect maybe there is not the expertise to engineer (software and knowledge wise) a similar system and this is really why the Saga of the MM is ongoing.

If there was just one thing that was to ever come out of 2022 for MWO for me as a returning player wanting the game to be more than it's current state it would be to see like the OP has addressed and many others not only on this forum but across the internet:
​Make Match Maker and how we acknowledge the development of the player (ranks, awarded effort in battle) sensible, perceptually fair and balanced.

Battles need that 'what a fight' feeling for players to want more, not 'ugh another ROFLstomp!'

Something is wrong if I take the same time to wait for a battle as it takes to lose the battle enmasse 12- 0 (or similar combination thereof) in what I perceive to be a one sided engagement where the skill set of the opposition, experience and co-ordination is very unbalanced to their opponents.

The developers may need to 'bite the bullet' and upset an elite few to save the game for it's future growth and return. From what I can tell another company has spent money recently on PGI and I'd expect they want that money spent to work for a dividend.

You can only have so many Whales prop this game up for you buying your new shiny Mech flavours of the month PGI before your accountants have to tell you to pull the plug because there were not enough Whales that month.

Hopefully things will move forward for better and there are years of fun in MWO left more than what current mixed feelings I have for this game based around one of my all time favourite TTgame universes.

[sosegado]

One reason why some players have (I personally do not but am aware of many who do) alternate accounts is to go 'seal clubbing'.

Figure 1: Seal clubbing in action. Here a frustrated tier 1 player vents his frustration with the match-maker on an unsuspecting cadet piloting a trial mech.

It's damn hard not to take this personally!

Ok, so I'm a seal? Oh well, I've been worse and been called worse!

But this is a super important topic and I feel like the whole community should be jumping all over this thread with approval.

I also feel like they don't know what else to do!

I don't know what else to do!

The game, and more importantly it's fan base, is suffering because of the broken match maker.

Maybe if you created a poll it would get the right kind of attention?

Edited by Stab Wound, 21 January 2022 - 10:35 AM.

[MechWarrior414712]

I love the "evidence" you post is basically you proving that you are the problem when you can't even reach 1kd on the mechs you claim to do good in.

Yes the matchmaker sucks but it should put noobs like OP with tier 5's and leave tier 1 for good people

[Toast3r]

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 09:40 AM, said:

On the issue of the match-maker
I have included below stats for 4 excellent mechs, but when I pilot them, more often than not the team loses. Something is seriously wrong. The builds are good, I do well. It can only be the match-maker as this is a team game.





UM-R80(L): W/L ratio of 0.15. I do an average of 471 damage which is very good in a light when the games are mostly lost!

TDR-5SS: W/L ratio of 0.69. I do an average of 455 damage (and a K/D ratio of 1.39) which is good when the games are mostly lost!

MAD-IIC-A: W/L ratio of 0.44. I do an average damage of 512 which is good when the games are mostly lost! This build is not yet skilled too!

WVR-7K: W/L ratio of 0.24. I do an average of 461 damage which is good in a medium when the games are mostly lost!

And a mech I haven't (yet) done so well in, but when I pilot it, the team also usually loses!



PXH-7S(S): W/L ratio of 0.24.

How can any of this be explained unless the match-maker is broken? I am not going around killing my whole team believe me!

I'd like to think that I am not such a horrible pilot that when for example I play a certain mech (Urbie!) the team only has a 13% chance of winning just because I'm crap! The stats show I generally do well. The team just collapses like a flan in a cupboard. This is the match-maker.

Can you tell me what your stretching routine is? I try to stay limber, but with the mental gymnastics you're pulling here that I can hardly follow, clearly you know something I don't.

[John Bronco]

The matchmaker does suck.

But if you are playing a decent amount of games and losing more than you are winning, it's 100% you.

[Dogmeat1]

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 08:23 AM, said:

Clearly the match-maker is broken. I have a proposal of how it might be fixed.

Proposal

Firstly, match score needs to reflect genuine pilot performance (this maybe the most difficult bit but can be self-optimised using the in-game stats!). Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage. The weightings can be derived periodically from live statistical data in the game.

Match-making is simply then a problem to equalise (as best as possible) each team's:
1. Total average match score.
2. Total tonnage.

There should be a range of acceptable tolerances for each. E.g. Total average match score +/- 200. Total tonnage +/- 50. Again these tolerances can be self-optimised. Match scores can even be weighted by how evenly the teams were matched.

The tier system should be abolished and replaced with ranks for average match score instead. The ranks are simply badges of honour, ideally coming with decals, bolt-ons, should be publicly visible in the loading screen and on player profiles, and even come with one-time rewards like MC, SP, and C-Bills.

If matchscore is supposed to represent player performance then it needs to reflect skilled actions that contribute positively towards a given team winning. Kills and damage are by far the biggest influences on whether a team wins or not and this is reflected by the fact that players with high kill and damage averages also have far higher WLRs than those who don't. Thus damage and kills should be rewarded heavily in the matchscore formula.

The problem with rewarding the other areas you mention is that they are either too situational or can often contribute towards a team losing. For example "scouting" is a useful thing to do in some games, especially comp and FW matches, but it is near impossible to judge via a automated kicker alone, In most cases when the kicker activates in QP, the action made little difference to whether the team won or lost.

Capturing points in conquest is generally useful but only to a certain degree. In many cases sitting on the point too long or flipping too many points when there is an active fight elsewhere will often put your team at a significant disadvantage and increase your odds of losing. Winning in conquest is still heavily depedent on getting more kills, as the team with more mechs can cap faster. Therefore a team that focuses too much on capping will often end up losing. The problem is even worse in assault; attempting to base cap correaltes strongly with low winrates. If team A focused on base capping and team B focuses on counter-attacking them while they are capping, then team B will win the vast majority of the time.

Therefore matchscore should only reflect skilled actions that actively contribute towards winning the majority of the time. and simply put this means kills, kmds and damage. Rewarding the other kickers will only result in even more mismatched games due to promoting players for doing actions that actually put their own team at a disadvantage.

Edited by Dogmeat1, 21 January 2022 - 05:18 PM.

[Dogmeat1]

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 09:40 AM, said:

On the issue of the match-maker
I have included below stats for 4 excellent mechs, but when I pilot them, more often than not the team loses. Something is seriously wrong. The builds are good, I do well. It can only be the match-maker as this is a team game.





UM-R80(L): W/L ratio of 0.15. I do an average of 471 damage which is very good in a light when the games are mostly lost!

TDR-5SS: W/L ratio of 0.69. I do an average of 455 damage (and a K/D ratio of 1.39) which is good when the games are mostly lost!

MAD-IIC-A: W/L ratio of 0.44. I do an average damage of 512 which is good when the games are mostly lost! This build is not yet skilled too!

WVR-7K: W/L ratio of 0.24. I do an average of 461 damage which is good in a medium when the games are mostly lost!

And a mech I haven't (yet) done so well in, but when I pilot it, the team also usually loses!



PXH-7S(S): W/L ratio of 0.24.

How can any of this be explained unless the match-maker is broken? I am not going around killing my whole team believe me!

I'd like to think that I am not such a horrible pilot that when for example I play a certain mech (Urbie!) the team only has a 13% chance of winning just because I'm crap! The stats show I generally do well. The team just collapses like a flan in a cupboard. This is the match-maker.

Simpy put, you are playing those mechs poorly. Your average damage is from 455-512 which is somewhat lowish for tier 1 and your average kills on 4 out of 5 of those mechs is from 0.53 - 0.76. That is quite poor. The very low kill average indicates to me that you are not doing damage effeciently or early enough in your matches. As a result you are underperforing and not contributing enough towards your team's chances of winning.

To put things in perspective the stats on my versions of the mechs you posted have average damage of 581-698 and a kill average of 1.79-2.6. As a result the lowest WLR I have on any of those mechs is 1.74 with the highest being 4.0. Keep in mind I only use those particular mechs when dropping solo so there is no group influence in those stats. Basically use better builds, get more kills and do your damage earlier in matches, and your WLR will vastly increase.

Edited by Dogmeat1, 21 January 2022 - 05:45 PM.

[Sep]

in before the lock

[justcallme A S H]

GenOrtega, on 19 January 2022 - 03:18 AM, said:

There is plenty of evidence on social media about the behaviour of some very experienced players using alternative accounts to 'Seal Club' amongst other activities making use of this and also even forming Alt Groups to game the MM for their own entertainment at the expense of new players

Could you please direct me to where this plentiful amount of evidence lives?

I follow the:

• Reddit groups (3-4)
  
• Facebook groups (2-3 big ones)
  
• Steam
  
• MWO Forums
  
• Many discords

I am not seeing anything that remotely backs up your statement. So if you could please provide some examples I would love to check them out.

GenOrtega, on 19 January 2022 - 03:18 AM, said:

The developers may need to 'bite the bullet' and upset an elite few to save the game for it's future growth and return.

Can you clarify what this means?

[justcallme A S H]

Well a lot to unpack here.

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 08:23 AM, said:

Spoiler

Match score should not be inflated if the team wins and should not be depressed if the team loses. More match score should be awarded for capturing flags, being in the circle, spotting etc, and should not just prioritise inflicting damage. This will give the lighter mechs a chance.

Player Skill Rating which comes from Match Score should reflect actions that require player skill. They are two keywords in PSR.

Things like KMDD, Killing Blow are two well known ones should reward more than they do as they are skill based actions from the player. Similarly AMS needs to be basically removed as it inflates match score via a passive action.

Lets be honest here - is standing on cap point really as skilful of an action as actively killing mechs? The answer here is obviously no, so increasing those things will not actually help. They are fine where they are.

What increasing them will do is have a very detrimental effect and will see players that have less skill, climb in Match Score/PSR. This will lead to the exact issue that saw PSR needing a reset in the first place. We do not need that scenario again, ever.

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 08:23 AM, said:

Spoiler

This will give the lighter mechs a chance. Match score should be weighted by tonnage.

At Jarls list shows us Mediums and Assaults perform generally the best overall so that idea, doesn't really work

Light mechs have plenty a chance to do quite well. The issue is light mechs take a bit more skill to pilot to achieve their damage and match scores. Recent and ongoing chassis buffs are addressing that and Jarls data also backs that up too.

Doing Match Score based on tonnage would require a complete overhaul of every match score kicker as lights can often generate a lot more kickers at a faster rate and earlier in the game. That is where the balance already is.

The Match Score system right now while not perfect isn't really that bad.

It is just the Match Maker that needs to look at things like a secondary lobby balance or similar ideas. It will never be perfect as Groups and Solos causes all sorts of WLR issues for those in the groups and it, sometimes, inflating a players WLR. Granted that isn't always the case.

Titan Prometheus, on 18 January 2022 - 09:58 AM, said:

Spoiler

Putting modesty aside for a moment, I am a decent player by all accounts, but that is now not born out in my stats. This season, my W/L ratio is significantly less than 1 and is currently sitting at 0.85, and the only way that can be accounted for is a poor match-maker as this is a team game and one MechWarrior alone cannot turn games at the top of tier 1!

Jarls data, which is just PGI data that has been scraped, shows that someone with around 280 AvgMS has around 1.5WLR. As you have 0.8 WLR you are underperforming in your matches.

Your KDR also backs that up. If you take matters into your own hands and perform at the level you should be for the Tier and Match Score you have - then your WLR will naturally climb, the data is all available to back that up.

I solo drop - I average a 2.5 WLR. Same as I have for years and if it started to drop it would be from my own lack of contribution.

End of the day the MM is not to blame for your WLR, you are. You presented the case that backs that up in your own posts oddly enough.

[P H O T O N]

Potato Farmer, on 21 January 2022 - 05:15 PM, said:

[redacted]

It just so happens to be true that I am at the top of tier 1 - screenshot linked a few posts below! Though, I shouldn't really be feeding the trolls like you now, should I?

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 25 January 2022 - 11:25 PM.
quote clean-up

[P H O T O N]

Dogmeat1, on 21 January 2022 - 05:42 PM, said:

Simpy put, you are playing those mechs poorly. Your average damage is from 455-512 which is somewhat lowish for tier 1 and your average kills on 4 out of 5 of those mechs is from 0.53 - 0.76. That is quite poor. The very low kill average indicates to me that you are not doing damage effeciently or early enough in your matches. As a result you are underperforing and not contributing enough towards your team's chances of winning.

To put things in perspective the stats on my versions of the mechs you posted have average damage of 581-698 and a kill average of 1.79-2.6. As a result the lowest WLR I have on any of those mechs is 1.74 with the highest being 4.0. Keep in mind I only use those particular mechs when dropping solo so there is no group influence in those stats. Basically use better builds, get more kills and do your damage earlier in matches, and your WLR will vastly increase.

I think you are missing the point. I may not be piloting those mechs perfectly (who can?) but I am certainly not piloting them poorly. Look at the match stats. The team loses far more often than it wins - in most cases the losses are completely one-sided 12-0 type affairs. You try pulling more damage in those situations.

This is a team game. It is impossible to explain the W/L ratio unless the match-maker is broken. If the match-maker actually worked, there wouldn't be significant deviation from a W/L ratio of 1 in a team game such as this.

Actually, for your information at the top of tier 1 it is not usually the case that you see mechs doing more than 600 damage. Most players seem pretty evenly matched, and the distribution of match scores (and damage) is most often pretty uniform. Please do note my use of statistical terms - I am not stating things absolutely.

John Bronco, on 21 January 2022 - 04:08 PM, said:

The matchmaker does suck.

But if you are playing a decent amount of games and losing more than you are winning, it's 100% you.

And your evidence for this? Are you aware that this is a team game yet? Do you understand statistics? If not let's actually have a discussion.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 22 January 2022 - 01:19 AM.

[P H O T O N]

To the ignorant trolls (no names mentioned) that doubted my claim (or even accused me of being a liar - shame on you buddy and if you wanted to devalue your alleged medal you managed to quite spectacularly even if I do say so myself! Well played old chap!) about being at the top of tier 1.

https://ibb.co/pRZ3RKv

I would have posted the image to this forum but I cannot for some reason.

p.s. All comments snipped and shared for posterity.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 22 January 2022 - 04:57 AM.

[P H O T O N]

justcallme A S H, on 21 January 2022 - 08:56 PM, said:

Well a lot to unpack here.



Player Skill Rating which comes from Match Score should reflect actions that require player skill. They are two keywords in PSR.

Things like KMDD, Killing Blow are two well known ones should reward more than they do as they are skill based actions from the player. Similarly AMS needs to be basically removed as it inflates match score via a passive action.

Lets be honest here - is standing on cap point really as skilful of an action as actively killing mechs? The answer here is obviously no, so increasing those things will not actually help. They are fine where they are.

What increasing them will do is have a very detrimental effect and will see players that have less skill, climb in Match Score/PSR. This will lead to the exact issue that saw PSR needing a reset in the first place. We do not need that scenario again, ever.




At Jarls list shows us Mediums and Assaults perform generally the best overall so that idea, doesn't really work

Light mechs have plenty a chance to do quite well. The issue is light mechs take a bit more skill to pilot to achieve their damage and match scores. Recent and ongoing chassis buffs are addressing that and Jarls data also backs that up too.

Doing Match Score based on tonnage would require a complete overhaul of every match score kicker as lights can often generate a lot more kickers at a faster rate and earlier in the game. That is where the balance already is.

The Match Score system right now while not perfect isn't really that bad.

It is just the Match Maker that needs to look at things like a secondary lobby balance or similar ideas. It will never be perfect as Groups and Solos causes all sorts of WLR issues for those in the groups and it, sometimes, inflating a players WLR. Granted that isn't always the case.



Jarls data, which is just PGI data that has been scraped, shows that someone with around 280 AvgMS has around 1.5WLR. As you have 0.8 WLR you are underperforming in your matches.

Your KDR also backs that up. If you take matters into your own hands and perform at the level you should be for the Tier and Match Score you have - then your WLR will naturally climb, the data is all available to back that up.

I solo drop - I average a 2.5 WLR. Same as I have for years and if it started to drop it would be from my own lack of contribution.

End of the day the MM is not to blame for your WLR, you are. You presented the case that backs that up in your own posts oddly enough.

This is a team game, how can I be underperforming to the extent that makes the team lose? Let's consider one example for a moment. When I pilot my Urban mech, how can I pilot it so that the team only wins 13% of the time while I get an average of around 500 damage? You tell me! On average, in a balanced game, one mech's performance cannot significantly swing the tide in either direction if matched with equal opposition (as should be the case with a working match-maker).

As I mentioned in my post I am often dropping in mixed tier groups as I have just started a UK Discord for this game in an attempt to keep it alive - I drop with a lot of folk in tier 3 and below and that should not break the match-maker. That perhaps should factor into the reasoning you present, but all things combined clearly indicates to me and numerous others that the match-maker is at fault, not me.

I would like to make one final comment about Jarl's list. I knew there would be a few who would cite it. As I state in my original post, Jarl's is fundamentally flawed in that it makes no compensation for a player’s tier, and the fact that high match scores are more difficult to achieve in the top tiers. It makes no compensation for a player’s W/L ratio, and the fact that high match scores are more difficult to achieve if your team loses. In addition to a broken-matchmaker, citing Jarl's therefore comes with a litany of caveats.

Edited by Titan Prometheus, 22 January 2022 - 01:37 AM.

[GenOrtega]

Well I see some raw nerves have been struck. This was expected as some rather like the present eco-system as they gain to benefit the most at the expense of others and the health of the game itself. How selfish.

The evidence is there across the net of bad behaviour amongst some of the community that take advantage of a misfunctioning MM, do the research yourself its there and I'm not going to waste time or break rules pointing fingers. Want evidence, go out and look, it shouldn't take you too long, if you participate in this behaviour then you don't have to look far do you ehh?

Ohh and I see some of you want this thread locked judging by the responses, swept under the carpet ehh, you'd like that wouldn't you?

The issue will never go away and you know it, the game might though if the 'bread and butter' game play is not fixed.

It is possible PGI do not have the resources and expertise being a very small team to sort the MM out and the system around how we acknowledge individual performance in a perceptually fairer way. It will be the problem with retention in the game until it is finally reworked and implemented and it is the Farm for those who know how to work the system to the expense of new, old and returning players.

So the questions is will this be reworked or is the game now on borrowed time? I'd like to think it has a future, though some may be uncomfortable with what that future is.