112 replies to this topic

[BLOODREDSIN]

I do not have such a reaction. It is not a robot. This is not real Mechwarrior. Anything else?

[ScrapIron Prime]

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 06:32 PM, said:

As to your second point, they do not have the experience or the objective fairness or the honest reputation to be juggling numbers at their own discretion and force feeding it to the rest of us. They have nothing to compare anything to. They don't know anything. They are winging it. MWO, which was wrong from the get go can not be the only block in your foundation. It is actually the weakest block. They have made fundamentally incorrect and biased changes already, confirming what i have said. I guess you don't understand, but in most facets of life you kinda need to have been around the block a few times, experienced a few things, learned something, somewhere, before you have any credibility.

Okay, I'll bite... who in your opinion has enough "experience" to suggest making changes to this game? And why? (Let's set aside "fairness" and "reputation" as criteria, as that is entirely subjective.)

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 06:32 PM, said:

They are not making suggestions ScrapIron.... they are patching in actual changes that they and they alone decide for months now. There is no suggestion, its just getting done and that's it.

No, they are making suggestions to PGI. PGI is patching the stuff in, and isn't just blindly doing whatever is suggested. And the bottom line... PGI is listening to someone, whereas they were previously listening to no one.

As far as the quality of those suggestions, I find I rather like them. Increasing agility and torso yaw and pitch, particularly for assault mechs, has allowed me to engage and counter light mechs which I was previously at the mercy of. Some of the weapon changes have taken some getting used to... but for players who have been around since the beginning, we're used to getting used to changes.

[Heavy Money]

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 08:03 PM, said:

Who has enough experience is irrelevant, what i think, what you think, what anyone thinks is irrelevant ..... Do not fool yourself into thinking PGI is monitoring this. They have all but thrown their hands up in complete and utter failure. Do you know of any other game company that hands the game balance decisions over to a crooked corrupt contingent of players based on a bogus MWO rating and tries to hide it? I don't want to crap on your good time but you got way too much faith in pgi. Their record does not deserve your praise.

Yes its great they increase pitch and yaw but ask yourself this: why don't they have the fix applied to all mechs at this stage. Better yet why was that not a top priority to cauldron from the very first patch as it specifically allows lights to exploit. This right here is the type of crap you must question because if they had good faith in mind from the start that would have been a top priority.

They also would not be using light statistics as a crutch and misconstruing it every time someone makes a thread because in reality that don't hold water.

Who is hiding anything? The Cauldron is directly mentioned in the patch notes. There are videos of the PGI staff talking with and about them. The staff have had multiple town hall style events with them and the community. You can just go to the main Mechwarrior Discord or the Cauldron's own discord and talk about balance and suggestions. Its not hidden or a secret.

They constantly take community feedback, process it, and run it past lots of experienced players. If you think something is too strong or too weak, just go let them know what you think the issue is. They will then see if others with experience also think there is an issue, and see if your suggestions can help. I've suggested multiple things to them, backed up with data about the capabilities of certain mechs, and they've made multiple changes similar to what I asked (other people were also suggesting similar things, so it was several people discussing it.) This is great, and much better than most game balance teams. MWO is a very interesting example of how much balance can be improved by listening to people who actually play the game a lot.

Also, tons of games have involved high tier players in balance discussions. Many companies directly hire them on to run that side of their games. What's unusual is that the Cauldron members aren't official employees (especially considering the amount of work some have done), not that they are being listened to.

The Mobility Fixes have been applied to all mechs. Every chassis was reviewed, and almost all were changed to some degree. Those in the worst shape got the largest buffs. Some that didn't really need anything weren't changed. Improving mobility was a top priority and was one of the first things they changed, along with buffing weak weapons. Again, there's no mystery here.

Light stats as a crutch for what? Stats are the argument because they are what matters. People make claims based on anecdotal experience. The stats prove what the trends actually are. If you think there's more to the issue than what the stats show, then explain what you think is going on instead of just ranting and pointing fingers. Have an actual argument to make and support it and you could be listened to.

Edited by Heavy Money, 24 January 2022 - 08:36 PM.

[w0qj]

1. MWO/Cauldron did increase the pitch/yaw, which for many assaults/heavy increased pitch to 25 degrees (up from previous 15 degrees), and yaw angles now 90 degrees or close to this number (witness Battlemaster some variants had 60 degrees yaw previously!!).

As an Assault/Heavy player, I can attest that this pitch/yaw issue had been improved greatly;
most (if not all) Assaults can now shoot a light mech hugging your leg now!

https://mwomercs.com...42410-18may2021
https://mwomercs.com...2420-22june2021
https://mwomercs.com...obility-changes

also
https://mwomercs.com...auldron-changes

2. To the Light mech players debating/defending their terf, may I point out that it's the piranha that is causing most of this Light imbalance problem, due to Piranha mech's hardpoint inflation. (MWO should have gated PIR-2 with 15x-laser-vomit as a Hero mech for ongoing revenue stream, but we digress here...).

Those stating Lights are the least performing class is conveniently glossing over the above Piranha hardpoint inflation issue.
Is there a way to get only Piranha performance, vs Medium/Heavy/Assault classes?
I suspect that Piranha would do very well, and much better than other Light class mechs in general.

(The other Light mechs are OK, no weapon hardpoint inflation issues IMHO.
In short, if you have problems vs Light mechs other than Piranha chassis, then it is Assault player's skill issue.
And I'm speaking as an Assault/Heavy player here).

3. I challenge any Piranha PIR-1 / PIR-2 / PIR-CI player to play an IS Jenner of your choice for one month,
and then come back and look me in the eye and say that "it's the Assault player's skill problem".

Edited by w0qj, 24 January 2022 - 10:27 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 06:32 PM, said:

As to your second point, they do not have the experience or the objective fairness or the honest reputation to be juggling numbers at their own discretion and force feeding it to the rest of us. They have nothing to compare anything to. They don't know anything. They are winging it. MWO, which was wrong from the get go can not be the only block in your foundation. It is actually the weakest block. They have made fundamentally incorrect and biased changes already, confirming what i have said. I guess you don't understand, but in most facets of life you kinda need to have been around the block a few times, experienced a few things, learned something, somewhere, before you have any credibility.

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 08:03 PM, said:

Who has enough experience is irrelevant, what i think, what you think, what anyone thinks is irrelevant .....

Okay, you lost me. It was relevant enough to form the basis of much of the above post, pointing it out as a shortcoming. Now it’s not relevant? Or is it nothing more than a dig at a group of people you don’t care for?

And no, I’m not giving PGI a free pass, they did indeed drop the ball on this game multiple times. It’s not the game it could have been, it’s not in a healthy state. But it’s fun. I kickstartered a game 10 years ago and it’s still alive and still being worked on (albeit by a skeleton crew and a player committee). I get to frag bots whenever I want. If I want immersion, I switch to HBS Battletech. Perhaps I wouldn’t be as kind to this game were it not for the other, where the rest of the Battletech universe lives, but there we are.

I’m here to stay, it is what it is. I’m not about to dump on the only group of folks that is getting anything at all in the way of balance and tweaks done. That would be counterproductive. Instead, if there’s something I want to see, I’ll try to make a case for it. And if I don’t get a consensus on it, then I won’t make a scene, I’ll just keep bringing it up now and again. Because the game is more than just me or my experience.

Experience which I think is relevant.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread had a bad start and got worse in the process.

Code of Conduct said:

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Enjoy the beautiful landscapes of Kaetetôã.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 24 January 2022 - 11:44 PM.

[Horseman]

***SQUAWK!***

Weeny Machine, on 23 January 2022 - 05:10 AM, said:

I also wonder why people are complaining. A mech is a mech. If a Marauder II gets a drop on you and blasts you to shreds, no one complains on the forum. But heck, if a light does it, then hell breaks loose. Often there is even a longer fight involved when a light mech gets the drop on someone...where no mate of the victim helps him, no missiles rain down on you, the victim doesn't pop a UAV (for missile support), doesn't watch his seismic, has no streaks etc
But I guess light pilots should also rage on the forum when they get one-shot by a heavy or assault when they do not pay attention

The reason they complain is that they are unwilling to accept they may be at fault for getting ganked by a pipsquek.

Quote

And sure, if you have no seismic, no ppd weapons, only weapons in your torso, only lrms etc then YOU stack the odds against you. This is also not the light mech class' fault

Honestly, even with those stacked up having some tactical awareness and combat ability helps.

Edited by Horseman, 25 January 2022 - 03:39 AM.

[McGoat]

BLOODREDSIN, on 24 January 2022 - 07:15 PM, said:

I do not have such a reaction. It is not a robot. This is not real Mechwarrior. Anything else?

1v1 for pinks.

[NoxMorbis]

Escef, on 23 January 2022 - 03:02 PM, said:

So, if I point out that you're doing it wrong, I'm the one that should shut up? Ok, sure. Why not?

You seem to confuse your opinion with fact.

[NoxMorbis]

The point many of you make proves the point I'm making: All tactics are starting to revolve around light mech defense.

Edited by NoxMorbis, 26 January 2022 - 09:45 AM.

[Curccu]

NoxMorbis, on 26 January 2022 - 12:01 AM, said:

The point many of you make proves the point I'm making: All tactics are starting to revolve around light mech defense.

The point many of you make proves the point I'm making: All tactics are starting to revolve around light mech defense.

What was the point you are trying to make again? That you cannot ignore light mech or it might kill you?

[NoxMorbis]

YueFei, on 23 January 2022 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's simple. He got pwned by some Lights when he was playing Assaults, thought he'd use what he perceived to be "OP", didn't quite become the next Phelan Kell but somehow tries to claim he is. But, his preferred playstyle is still Assaults, so he came crying to the forums to complain about Lights.

There's nothing wrong with utilizing the class/build/playstyle that you're losing against. In fact that's great, because it can help you get first-hand experience on what the strengths/weaknesses are. Then you swap back to your preferred class/playstyle with that new understanding and use it to minimize the opposing strengths and exploit the weaknesses.

Unfortunately a lot of people cannot maintain objectivity and are often trying to advocate for nerfs for everything else except their own preferred playstyle.

Complex ideas are always simple to the simple minded. You have an opinion of my play style, but it's incorrect.

First, I play all mechs, and I love lights too. My playstyle is a blend of all weight classes. However, I do admit my mediums are lagging.

Second, I don't mind losing to anyone, as long as I have a defense and can fight back. There simply is no defense for a light up your assault *** mashing the fire button until you die. that's not skill. It's a defect in game play.
Third, you assume much.

[NoxMorbis]

Curccu, on 26 January 2022 - 12:52 AM, said:

What was the point you are trying to make again? That you cannot ignore light mech or it might kill you?

Well, yes, of course that's the point. Because, you know, that would condensed my points into one short, pithy, and highly accurate sentence. Awesome comprehension on your part!

Edited by NoxMorbis, 26 January 2022 - 09:49 AM.