44 replies to this topic

[Alex Morgaine]

C E Dwyer, on 24 January 2022 - 06:52 PM, said:

My monies on after the next new mech arrives..

Oh when's a new mech-oooooooh, I see what you did there

[MW Waldorf Statler]

ThreeStooges, on 26 January 2022 - 05:08 PM, said:

Yes the forums of late have been a lot of crying from a lot of people but they are always the same problems since the game started. Except with the re-scale of 2016 that took out the weakest class making them even worse for those of us who like or use to use lights.

Only the outliers like the pir 1 pir 2 or fle ever get cried about while rest of lights remain garbage. I've tried assaults a few times and I can't pilot them at all. They simply move too slow for me. The other three classes I like more as I percive them to move slow moving shoot me sign.

As video has shown the rescale made many lights TOO BIG which has made them far too easy to shoot with all the newer bigger higher damage alphas assaults and heavies can do. A second rescale to make them their original size or smaller is the only thing that can save the lights. They don't need quirks of 1000 armor to ct but I wish the jenners did.

yes , the last rescaling was a Sh*t the catapult dwarfed like a 35t mech ,the Black Knight now tall like the Atlas and the Lights all to big and with it to slow .Im not a Fan from lights (really im hate it in mW4 to use her and all arenafights) so im not have really many experience with this machine ,im not bad in it ,more medicore ,and better as in the Fattie assaults.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 27 January 2022 - 09:10 PM.

[Dogstar]

ThreeStooges, on 24 January 2022 - 04:02 PM, said:

Six years since the first one. Not even a road map mention of a fabled "soon" second rescale. Any one want to take bets on the exact date/year of the second coming of jes...rescale?

It's not going to happen, PGI aren't willing to do anything other than apply a few xml fiddles.

[LordNothing]

Dogstar, on 27 January 2022 - 01:18 AM, said:

It's not going to happen, PGI aren't willing to do anything other than apply a few xml fiddles.

thats assuming thats not what they did the first time. most games i modded stick a default scale factor in a config file somewhere thats not hard to tweak.

[Wid1046]

ThreeStooges, on 24 January 2022 - 04:02 PM, said:

Six years since the first one. Not even a road map mention of a fabled "soon" second rescale.
[Redacted]

It actually was in last year's roadmap. "Improve 'Mechs Scale (for fun and role vs volumetric)" was in their goals for Q2 of last year (between April and June).

Other than some map changes, they missed practically everything else in last years roadmap though. I don't give PGI much credit for number changes spoon-fed to them by the Cauldron or selling some new variants.

The problem is staffing. According to Phil from NGNG they only had Mark and Francois working on the game full time last year, with both Daeron and Matt only working part time on the game. I did hear that PGI was planning on hiring a third full time employee at the end of last year, but I don't know whether or not that actually happened. Francois, Mark, Matt, and Daeron all obviously want the game to succeed, but PGI has set them up to fail with the pitiful amount of resources that they're willing to put into it.

There is supposedly going to be a new roadmap in February, but unless they announce that there is suddenly going to be a bunch of new staff being added to the game, or at least be reinvesting the mech-pack money into the game instead of spending it on other projects, I expect the new roadmap to be just as much BS as last year's turned out to be.

[Capt Deadpool]

Vxheous, on 24 January 2022 - 10:46 PM, said:

From what I understand, PGI was receptive to rescaling the mechs, but then realized that EVERY SINGLE BOLT-ON ever added into the game needed to be INDIVIDUALLY RESIZED as well, which is such a massive undertaking that well....that's why there's still no rescale.

I could be in the tiny minority of people who have never given a flying eff about bolt-ons, (or maybe not?). There should be a player vote as to whether to completely scrap bolt-ons (compensate people who purchased them with MC) or not so we can get a rescale... Seems absurd to hold up a core gameplay improvement/feature simply to preserve existence of aesthetic accessory items, though unfortunately not at all surprising...

[Mark Nicholson]

I can't comment yet on the rest of the situation, but I wanted to add clarity to one part of the discussion:

Bolt-ons have never been a blocker to Rescale.

They are a hindrance to that effort, but not an insurmountable one, and not the reason for a lack of updates. Reducing the number of available bolt-ons was something that was under consideration even before their interaction with Rescale was known.

[Verilligo]

I would imagine re-rigging and animating mechs would be a bigger blocker than bolt-ons. I mean I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but I'd almost expect that simply changing a mech's size without altering its walking animations could end up with mechs literally flying apart and trying to animate along an old set of coordinates.

[FupDup]

Verilligo, on 27 January 2022 - 05:06 PM, said:

I would imagine re-rigging and animating mechs would be a bigger blocker than bolt-ons. I mean I'm no expert on this sort of thing, but I'd almost expect that simply changing a mech's size without altering its walking animations could end up with mechs literally flying apart and trying to animate along an old set of coordinates.

If mechs are animated based on precise fixed coordinates then that's really whacky design.

I would expect them to have designated "movement points" or whatever such that they produce the same result as long as the ratios and what not between them are preserved. An example of this is the game City of Heroes where you can make your character between 4 to 8 feet tall but the animations (and costume pieces) adapt to the new size seamlessly since it's based on the same skeleton.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

LordNothing, on 27 January 2022 - 05:57 AM, said:

thats assuming thats not what they did the first time. most games i modded stick a default scale factor in a config file somewhere thats not hard to tweak.

Yes ..Most other games also have a Modern engine ,only one model with only a Single hit zone and a life bar, if it only flies or drives, no problem with animations and the terrain either, don't have umpteen different weapon modules with their own model and above all a large team, where we be happy if the few remaining employees don't collapse at work or tomorrow EG7 shuts down the servers

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 27 January 2022 - 09:19 PM.

[LordNothing]

rigging is really just transform and hierarchy. a scale transform applied to the root object should propagate down. granted ive seen engines that are really bad at this, but those are from the '90s.

[ThreeStooges]

Wid1046, on 27 January 2022 - 09:49 AM, said:

It actually was in last year's roadmap. "Improve 'Mechs Scale (for fun and role vs volumetric)" was in their goals for Q2 of last year (between April and June).

Other than some map changes, they missed practically everything else in last years roadmap though. I don't give PGI much credit for number changes spoon-fed to them by the Cauldron or selling some new variants.

The problem is staffing. According to Phil from NGNG they only had Mark and Francois working on the game full time last year, with both Daeron and Matt only working part time on the game. I did hear that PGI was planning on hiring a third full time employee at the end of last year, but I don't know whether or not that actually happened. Francois, Mark, Matt, and Daeron all obviously want the game to succeed, but PGI has set them up to fail with the pitiful amount of resources that they're willing to put into it.

There is supposedly going to be a new roadmap in February, but unless they announce that there is suddenly going to be a bunch of new staff being added to the game, or at least be reinvesting the mech-pack money into the game instead of spending it on other projects, I expect the new roadmap to be just as much BS as last year's turned out to be.

Here is what a proper road map looks like. Mind you it is for a mobile game for a Disney game. Specifically Disney Hero Battle Modes from a company called Perblue. It's not very visually interesting and might be bare bones but it does tell you what is/was being worked on. This is leagues above pgi.

https://trello.com/b...js/dhbm-roadmap

They even have a VERY ACTIVE community manager posting quite regularly on their forum to feedback.
https://discourse.di...roadmap/1332556

[Dauntless Blint]

King Crab Centre Torso needs help. It just needs RAC2 HSL +3 [redacted], send help.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 01 February 2022 - 10:22 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

LordNothing, on 28 January 2022 - 04:51 PM, said:

rigging is really just transform and hierarchy. a scale transform applied to the root object should propagate down. granted ive seen engines that are really bad at this, but those are from the '90s.

yes , the uE4 for example problem we have a very old Cry 3 with many Locks and secrets, and the Keyholder is not longer avaible and all talented guys without the recscue Team now worked for EG7 Projects without each Chance to learn the secrets of the mWO Engine

Comparable with the soul sellers running under e.g. South American shipping companies with a (from the CEO View) dispensable crew who drive until they sink

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 01 February 2022 - 02:49 AM.

[Spheroid]

What in holy hell is the point of asking for another rescale? The caldron has spent months of time arriving at the current state of balance after much work. A rescale would invalidate all that work.

You are asking for a return to a less balanced state of the game. Take for instance the Firestarter. It's quirked around its current size. A rescale ultimately just is an enhancement to survivability, something that can be also accomplished at zero cost to PGI via community XML edits.

What is PGI's motivation for revisiting mechs that people already own? You are asking for real and tangible labor costs for little or no return.

This whole request of yours is a farse.

[Gagis]

Spheroid, on 03 February 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

What in holy hell is the point of asking for another rescale? The caldron has spent months of time arriving at the current state of balance after much work. A rescale would invalidate all that work.

Rescale was an early priority for Cauldron and at least the first passes they did under the assumption Rescale would also happen. There is a lot that rescale would improve much more than any quirks or weapon passes can.

I don't know if they have become pessimistic since then and adapted to work focusing on making sure stuff works as is in case rescale never happens.

The game ought to be much more smooth to play when more mechs are smaller in proportion to ramps, cover and other terrain features.

Edited by Gagis, 03 February 2022 - 04:56 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Spheroid, on 03 February 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

What in holy hell is the point of asking for another rescale? The caldron has spent months of time arriving at the current state of balance after much work. A rescale would invalidate all that work.

You are asking for a return to a less balanced state of the game. Take for instance the Firestarter. It's quirked around its current size. A rescale ultimately just is an enhancement to survivability, something that can be also accomplished at zero cost to PGI via community XML edits.

What is PGI's motivation for revisiting mechs that people already own? You are asking for real and tangible labor costs for little or no return.

This whole request of yours is a farse.

So, you imply that the FS is en par with the current balance? Quite honestly, balance wouldn't go down the drain when the 35t mechs would get a small size reduction. FS and Wolfhound for example are really easy to hit when you consider that they belong to a class which should be elusive.

[ThreeStooges]

Spheroid, on 03 February 2022 - 04:50 AM, said:

This whole request of yours is a farse.

So is your reply. Anyone here could spend a week "re-balancing" the quirks with spreed sheet warrior mode. Rescale is a lot more involved than that but you clearly know nothing about that. It's not that hard to quirk a mech or change them. Just look at the brand new "-xx overheat reduction quirk" or any other existing quirk. Only light pilots and former light pilots know how bad the re-scale trurly is.

[Weeny Machine]

ThreeStooges, on 03 February 2022 - 01:44 PM, said:

So is your reply. Anyone here could spend a week "re-balancing" the quirks with spreed sheet warrior mode. Rescale is a lot more involved than that but you clearly know nothing about that. It's not that hard to quirk a mech or change them. Just look at the brand new "-xx overheat reduction quirk" or any other existing quirk. Only light pilots and former light pilots know how bad the re-scale trurly is.

They don't get it because the light mech class has been the lowest played mech class and of course they don't want to endanger their ERL boating assaults standing somewhere in the backfield by making the heavier light mechs more competetive.
Currently you cannot really brawl with them. Hit and run works only to a degree because the laser alphas of the assaults is much higher. So, in the end the scissor beats the rock.

Ironically the 20-25t mechs which really are the pests because they are really agile profited from the re-scaling by becoming even smaller than before.

Sidenote: I wouldn't re-scale all mechs. Just some which are really huge like, as I said before, the 35t mechs and giants like Grasshoppers and so on

Edited by Weeny Machine, 04 February 2022 - 11:23 AM.

[ThreeStooges]

Weeny Machine, on 04 February 2022 - 11:22 AM, said:

Sidenote: I wouldn't re-scale all mechs. Just some which are really huge like, as I said before, the 35t mechs and giants like Grasshoppers and so on

This exactly is the type of re-re-scale needed. We don't need every single light reverted back to original or smaller. Just the ones that were blown up such as the Jenners. They have always had horrible hitboxes. nothing will change that. Reverting them would make them better to use. The only use the f gets so much use is because its usually the only one of two is trial mechs for months.

And other mechs as well that need it. Everyone seems hell bent thinking we have to do all the mechs. Just like when an as s
pilot comes in cry fle pir needs nerf but blames all of the lights.