35 replies to this topic

[Cerebus23]

So we have escort missions in game for faction practice. And seems they working on one for qp.


So why not make it a player driven mode, where the players are the VIP.


The game mode is to get from point A to B.


the objectives for the vip could be to help or hurt their team.


the vip could be like a sheep or running around like a chicken.


the variety on good maps could be there maybe a game mode that could break out the norm but still reward the brawly, nascar with the escort with a twist from the brain dead bot march point a to b.



i think it is a mode could work well take not much work. VIP teams of 1 to 5 player teams of the 10 to 12 area.


Sound good bad or indifferent?

[Meep Meep]

How would you choose the vip though? If its player chosen then everyone is going to pick a fast stealth light and lolz all the way to the evac point. If its client chosen then how to choose the mech?

[Cerebus23]

random? you que it tosses you it one or other.

[Meep Meep]

Cerebus23, on 03 February 2022 - 03:48 PM, said:

random? you que it tosses you it one or other.

Completely random or with rules? Rng choosing a stealth light or any fast mech with ecm would be an almost sure win.

[Heavy Money]

If a player can be the VIP, then we'll see it devolve into either rushing to the end zone, which will end matches early without much taking place like Assault base rushes. Or, they'll camp in some corner hidden behind their team and it'll just be skirmish but more tedious.

To work properly, there would need to be some very tight waypoints or something. Like you earn score for progressing to each waypoint within some amount of time. But even then, that's such a large strategic downside that you're probably better off camping in some corner instead of playing the objective, just like other objective modes now.

This is the core problem that would need to be solved for Escort/VIP to work properly.

EDIT: You could make it so the VIP team can ONLY win by getting the VIP through whatever objectives I suppose, but then it'll be super punishing and very difficult to balance.

Edited by Heavy Money, 03 February 2022 - 03:56 PM.

[Cerebus23]

maybe limit it to 100 ton only or lest assault level mechs, to keep it from light rushes to the end or unlucky one shot 20 second matches.


and i imagine rotatating the goals of the vip might add more variety to the mode.


but have wp objectives layed out, points for reaching them, points for condition of the vip at each point, points for other sub objectives. start and end goals be arbitary to win.


if they could pull it off having the vip team meet a drop ship to evac to win be cool.

[Blood Rose]

Heavy Money, on 03 February 2022 - 03:54 PM, said:

If a player can be the VIP, then we'll see it devolve into either rushing to the end zone, which will end matches early without much taking place like Assault base rushes. Or, they'll camp in some corner hidden behind their team and it'll just be skirmish but more tedious.

To work properly, there would need to be some very tight waypoints or something. Like you earn score for progressing to each waypoint within some amount of time. But even then, that's such a large strategic downside that you're probably better off camping in some corner instead of playing the objective, just like other objective modes now.

This is the core problem that would need to be solved for Escort/VIP to work properly.

EDIT: You could make it so the VIP team can ONLY win by getting the VIP through whatever objectives I suppose, but then it'll be super punishing and very difficult to balance.

Simple fix:
Multiple end zones and larger maps. Now you need Lights to recon, to find where he target is or enemy isnt. You need to be able to get to a good intercept place. You need light mechs to work out where you need to be.

[JediPanther]

Did the game get reverted to a prior state? This thread seems to be setting off my ptsd of escort mode. The mode so bad that pgi denied it for months then removed it to sell mw5 so people wouldn't know how horrible pgi's idea of an ai was. If I want to play escort mode i'll use a stock urbie and find the slowest assult lrm boat.

[Curccu]

JediPanther, on 03 February 2022 - 05:15 PM, said:

how horrible pgi's idea of an ai was.

Well not an AI and wasn't supposed to be one, it's just object moving predesignated route.

And I don't think anyone else than OP wants that mode back, it was just not functional.
Idea of escort is ok IMO, but how to implement it well is hard or impossible.

Could work in FP scouting 4v4 one of the other team is escorted and light mechs outside of stock urbie aren't allowed

[Escef]

Curccu, on 03 February 2022 - 10:56 PM, said:

Well not an AI and wasn't supposed to be one, it's just object moving predesignated route.

Yes and no. It's my understanding that there were a small number of pathing options available to the VIP, but how it chose which ones to use was a bit of a mystery. (There has been conjecture that a Magic 8-Ball was involved.) The VIP was often suicidally stupid, and a vocal segment of the userbase absolutely hated Escort mode. I'm not going to fault people for having a preference, however, some players hated it enough to DC at match start, with the result being weirdly mismatched teams.

Honestly, I don't think there is any way to fix the mode concept without it being for organized play exclusively. Having team leaders agree upon or randomly determine which side has the VIP, make the leader the VIP or if the VIP is an NPC AI have the leader able to issue commands to it. (Issued commands could be move here, hold position, power down; and the leader would have a limited number of uses of the issue command function, and the VIP would have to resume normal behavior after a certain time... I could even see lowering the number and duration of uses of the command function being a traded off for higher rewards.)

Another option would be to replace the VIP mech with a vehicle convoy, that way things are a bit less "all or nothing". For some reason, this brings the MFBs (mobile field bases) from Mechwarrior 3 to mind for me.

Anyway, yeah, can't say I'm enthused about the idea of a new VIP/Escort mode. We had one, it failed to be good, and I don't see a resurrection of the idea being worth the effort needed to make it happen.

Edited by Escef, 04 February 2022 - 12:43 AM.

[Curccu]

Escef, on 04 February 2022 - 12:42 AM, said:

Yes and no. It's my understanding that there were a small number of pathing options available to the VIP, but how it chose which ones to use was a bit of a mystery. (There has been conjecture that a Magic 8-Ball was involved.) The VIP was often suicidally stupid, and a vocal segment of the userbase absolutely hated Escort mode.

Yes kinda what I said there was no AI, there was no intelligence part in that, 99.9% sure it picked pathing by random from predetermined possible routes, it didn't take any kind of input what was happening around it and act accordingly. That is why it was not really stupid because I would argue that there has to be some intelligence to act stupidly.

But yes stupid mode that didn't work at all.

[justcallme A S H]

I cannot think of a more painful mode than forcing a player to be the "VIP" and have 11 other garbage cans try and "escort" you across a map.

It would be even worse than the AI controlled mode which was equally terrible.

[Captain Caveman DE]

I like the concept of escort mode - but that's about it.

you can't give the VIP into player-hands, cause that opens it up and frankly ASKS for abuse.

PGI can't work the AI to "do the right thing". like: at all.


--> just let it rest in pieces.

[Curccu]

Captain Caveman DE, on 04 February 2022 - 03:55 AM, said:

you can't give the VIP into player-hands, cause that opens it up and frankly ASKS for abuse.

--> just let it rest in pieces.

I think it could work with limits and only in comp kind of environment (coordinated team vs coordinated team) but would require so much work from PGI that would never work
so have to agree to just let it rest in peace.

[Saved By The Bell]

Escourt could be only this:


That mission was pretty hard in Elite mode.

[Annihilator]

Forget that escort... Just bring back Scout plz

[Brom96]

I was extremely glad when Escort mode was taken behind the barn and put out of its misery. I can think of one or two other mods that could have same faith.

[Curccu]

Annihilator, on 04 February 2022 - 11:21 AM, said:

Forget that escort... Just bring back Scout plz

Scouting was fun when bot sides played it as skirmish. Smoke diving stealth pirates banes were total ****.

[Escef]

justcallme A S H, on 04 February 2022 - 03:08 AM, said:

I cannot think of a more painful mode than forcing a player to be the "VIP" and have 11 other garbage cans try and "escort" you across a map.

It would be even worse than the AI controlled mode which was equally terrible.

Provided the VIP player had guns and could shoot, it would likely be tolerable. Unfortunately, it also opens the door to troll tactics, like parking in some god-awful, barely accessible area and powering down. We still see crap like that in Skirmish (the #1 reason why I was opposed to the creation of the mode, and still vote against it), though admittedly it is fairly rare behavior these days.

[Mechteric]

It'd be great until you get some noob or griefer who does the worst vip job and everyone else in the team yells obscenities at said person

That's pretty much why it'll never be a person in the vip role