38 replies to this topic

[PhantasmX]

I stream. I play MWO. I don't mod. But PGI apparently is ok with streamers using mods.

[pbiggz]

Would you like to perhaps elaborate or are you just gonna drop this here and leave, expecting us to take your word for it?

[LordNothing]

sound mods are pretty common, and allowed (or at least tolerated) to the best of my knowledge. anything that would change the gameplay, disrupt the servers, or give you an advantage is against the tos.

cauldron members have posted test videos with xml mods (id love to know how so as to test my own theories). but as for using those in the live game, that's a negatory. i wish custom games had a 'load custom xml' button to spawn games with weapon mods.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2022 - 07:34 PM.

[PhantasmX]

Well to be honest I'm mostly just sour about streaming recently and venting a bit to the forums, looking for outside opinions. I sent an email to PGI, who normally responds fairly promptly, regarding mods (yes, even sound mods) in use by streamers. I received no response as to whether or not this is truly allowed. In direct response to LordNothing, this does give a *potential* advantage to streamers that do use mods in the form of viewership. Modified versions of the same game you already know, even if it is just sounds being changed, can be quite refreshing and could be the difference that causes a viewer to stay. I know I'm nitpicking here, but I'm not even against sound mods. My problem is that I refuse to break the T.O.S. regardless of whether it is tolerated and I feel that I am at a disadvantage specifically from a streaming perspective because I follow the rules.

Thoughts? Opinions?

[RickySpanish]

PhantasmX, on 17 February 2022 - 05:54 PM, said:

Well to be honest I'm mostly just sour about streaming recently and venting a bit to the forums, looking for outside opinions. I sent an email to PGI, who normally responds fairly promptly, regarding mods (yes, even sound mods) in use by streamers. I received no response as to whether or not this is truly allowed. In direct response to LordNothing, this does give a *potential* advantage to streamers that do use mods in the form of viewership. Modified versions of the same game you already know, even if it is just sounds being changed, can be quite refreshing and could be the difference that causes a viewer to stay. I know I'm nitpicking here, but I'm not even against sound mods. My problem is that I refuse to break the T.O.S. regardless of whether it is tolerated and I feel that I am at a disadvantage specifically from a streaming perspective because I follow the rules.

Thoughts? Opinions?

PGI don't care about sound mods, and the original sounds pale in comparison to more recent efforts. You won't find much sympathy there. With that said, I don't think most viewers care about the sounds. If you really want views, then showing cleavage, claiming yourself to be a reincarnated wolf or pretending to be an anime school girl might help you more. Or you could just be good at the game and engage with your viewers - MWO streamers with the exception of MTG, are about as charismatic as door stops, and most are about as effective as one at the game. So, can't be that hard can it?

Edited by RickySpanish, 17 February 2022 - 06:09 PM.

[Escef]

RickySpanish, on 17 February 2022 - 06:06 PM, said:

If you really want views, then showing cleavage, claiming yourself to be a reincarnated wolf or pretending to be an anime school girl might help you more.

Wow, well, that sounds like you have serious problems with women, man. I mean, even if you don't, you come off like you do.

RickySpanish, on 17 February 2022 - 06:06 PM, said:

Or you could just be good at the game and engage with your viewers - MWO streamers with the exception of MTG, are about as charismatic as door stops, and most are about as effective as one at the game. So, can't be that hard can it?

I'm positively mediocre, and I used to be one of the better known MWO streamers (probably in the top 10, not saying much for such a niche game, of course). Anyway, I don't think you even need to be good at the game. Engage with your viewers, treat them like guests, be an entertainer. Because that's what watching a stream is about, being entertained. And I do mean treat your viewers as guests, you need to be a good host. Of course, your livestream is also your house, and just as you wouldn't tolerate someone starting crap in your house, don't feel as if you should tolerate people acting like garbage human beings in your stream chat. Feel free to boot a mo-fo. Trust me, you'll be happier for it. (Or at least, less miserable.)

I gave up on streaming a couple years back to focus on work and earning my bachelor's. I kind of miss it a little, but I'm not sure if I want to go back to doing it, either. However, my philosophy was also to treat it like a hobby, I had no delusions about becoming some big time, make a living as a livestreamer type of guy. There are plenty of guys out there that are both better at the game and more entertaining than I am, and MWO is already a small niche.

[RickySpanish]

^ You never used your good looks to swing things in your favour? Feels bad, man. But sure, all those low cut tops are there because wouldn't you know it, the heating's just up high and the house is too well insulated! In my opinion, watching a streamer who makes the stream about the GAME and not them is actually important. There are enough wannabe me me me 15 minute famer celebs in the world, but far too few people who are technically good at what they do.

[Escef]

RickySpanish, on 17 February 2022 - 09:20 PM, said:

^ You never used your good looks to swing things in your favour? Feels bad, man. But sure, all those low cut tops are there because wouldn't you know it, the heating's just up high and the house is too well insulated!

For all the crap thrown at them, how many of them are actually in the top 5 streamers? Top 10? Look, you just sound like you hate women. I mean, you are free to if you like, but burning your energy hating people just seems wasteful and pointless to me. I mean, all those women you hate don't even know you exist, much less care about your opinion.

I recall there was one lady that used to stream MWO that used to dress neatly and conservatively, but she had jackwagon's give her crap about the way she dressed without even seeing her. She also could probably have kicked my hindquarters at MWO 90% of the time, she was good.

So, yeah, take that incel crap elsewhere, man. It just makes you look bad. Even if you believe in it, at least have enough sense to keep your hatehole shut.

[D V Devnull]

And now to attempt knocking a discussion back on-track before it can die...

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PhantasmX, on 17 February 2022 - 05:54 PM, said:

Well to be honest I'm mostly just sour about streaming recently and venting a bit to the forums, looking for outside opinions. I sent an email to PGI, who normally responds fairly promptly, regarding mods (yes, even sound mods) in use by streamers. I received no response as to whether or not this is truly allowed. In direct response to LordNothing, this does give a *potential* advantage to streamers that do use mods in the form of viewership. Modified versions of the same game you already know, even if it is just sounds being changed, can be quite refreshing and could be the difference that causes a viewer to stay. I know I'm nitpicking here, but I'm not even against sound mods. My problem is that I refuse to break the T.O.S. regardless of whether it is tolerated and I feel that I am at a disadvantage specifically from a streaming perspective because I follow the rules.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Hello there, 'PhantasmX'...

I'm extremely glad to hear that you refuse to break the ToS in regard to using any Mod Files with your MWO install. Sounds (no pun intended) like a stream which I would probably enjoy watching. Things tend to register much better for me with the original game sounds being used, even though I have heard samples of other Sound Packs from various different streamers around the planet. Something about those other Sound Packs never settled with me, so I can happily say Original MWO Game Sounds FTW!!!

However... I did notice that you don't have links to your streaming from your MWO Profile... You might want to click on your username on the Forum's pages and find the links needed to edit it in. (Yes, MWO's Forums provide the ability to link your streaming 1000% legally!) Simply put, if people don't see a link here to reach your streaming with, then it makes your ability to get new viewers much more difficult. Having said that, I don't know exactly where you stream from primarily. But, if it's Twitch, then it would be worth having an alternate spot where you post videos to as well. The nuts at Twitch are up to some rather predatory tactics these days in regard to violating the privacy of anyone who comes near their site, as I've come to find out the hard way. It basically boils down to if someone wants privacy, then they're unable to touch/use Twitch at all.

~D. V. "prefers vanilla MWO Game Audio ... thinks a link to your streaming content could help you" Devnull

[Bamboozle Gold]

PhantasmX, on 16 February 2022 - 07:06 PM, said:

I stream. I play MWO. I don't mod. But PGI apparently is ok with streamers using mods.

Sound mods are allowed. Visual mods are grey area but so far there haven't been any bans for these either. If you use them egregiously (e.g. turn all mech cockpit textures bright pink) then it could be an issue.

[RickySpanish]

Escef, on 17 February 2022 - 09:54 PM, said:

Garbage

Are you going to tell everyone I hate children next? Oh! Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?! Find a better way to distort my words, "misogyny" is so 2019.

With regards to visual mods, yes they are a bit iffy. I have seen a few mods that colourize the different laser types that would otherwise appear the same colour, I think. People do seem to frown on those more, but again it depends. I have seen, and use, sharpening effects to make details stand out more clearly. This can be done via Nvidia control panel for geforce cards to override native game settings.

[LordNothing]

PhantasmX, on 17 February 2022 - 05:54 PM, said:

Well to be honest I'm mostly just sour about streaming recently and venting a bit to the forums, looking for outside opinions. I sent an email to PGI, who normally responds fairly promptly, regarding mods (yes, even sound mods) in use by streamers. I received no response as to whether or not this is truly allowed. In direct response to LordNothing, this does give a *potential* advantage to streamers that do use mods in the form of viewership. Modified versions of the same game you already know, even if it is just sounds being changed, can be quite refreshing and could be the difference that causes a viewer to stay. I know I'm nitpicking here, but I'm not even against sound mods. My problem is that I refuse to break the T.O.S. regardless of whether it is tolerated and I feel that I am at a disadvantage specifically from a streaming perspective because I follow the rules.

Thoughts? Opinions?

the sound mods are usually a nostalgia thing, for people who prefer the mw2 betty over mwo's. i have no problem with that. but ive heard rumors of some pro players actually muting weapon sounds (flattening out the sound files in audacity, i presume) so they can crank up their volume and hear enemy mech's footfalls, combined with a good set of gaming headphones or a good surround system effectively giving you an audio radar. or replacing textures to give mechs more contrast against the terrain, or making weapon bitmaps transparent to prevent being blinded by dps weapons. modding can be a slippery slope like that. i dont use them because i dont want my account deleted or to be ip banned.

i actually would like to see more modding, with pgi's blessing of course. things like user created maps or weapons packs. i think thats more a population issue. you might have people who do vanilla and others who play mods, and sometimes like different mods, and thats a good way to fracture up a limited player base. there is also the issue of vetting mods. pgi will need to check content to make sure its not violating the tos, infringing copywrites, etc. they would also have to support modders to ensure mod quality. can it run stable and not crash servers or corrupt the database. datacenter fees, perhaps mods require datacenter installation or their own server instances. all that costs money. modders or those who play mods would have to fund this. either the mod developers would take donations to pay the fees directly to pgi, for example renting dedicated servers, or players would pay to access a dedicated mode for mods. i think pgi are currently in a position where they can keep the game around so long as they stay in the green, and to spend as little as possible on it.

as for streaming im not really sure using a custom sound pack is a reason to chose one streamer over another. i usually dont find streams much of interest unless its either a very high level of play, is informative somehow like a showcase of new features from the latest patch or discussing builds, or if i can get something out of it to improve my game, or unusual happenings. streams as a spectator sport was never a thing i liked. using mw2 sounds is more of a stylistic variation and not really the thing that sells your stream to the masses.

i wish pgi was more open about these things. i think they view them as another problem that they would rather not deal with. they simply do not want to open a can of worms. you might be able to get an official response eventually.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 February 2022 - 07:52 AM.

[John Bronco]

I've actually been to many people's streams and left because they didn't have the latest sound pack.

Even if it they were very entertaining, very skilled at the game, and had a lively chat going.

The soundpack 100% will make or break ANY stream.

[LordNothing]

Escef, on 17 February 2022 - 09:00 PM, said:

Wow, well, that sounds like you have serious problems with women, man. I mean, even if you don't, you come off like you do.

its been a well established fact in marketing and entertainment that sex sells. in this day and age, featuring anime schoolgirls in your mechwarrior stream might sound like the most misogynistic thing since the salem witch trials. when pop stars wear bondage gear or revealing lingerie on stage rather than tasteful attire its somehow "empowering", but when you show a cartoon of fully clothed girl in a school uniform, its somehow disgusting and sexist. i can certainly tell you which industry is most exploitative to women.

i cant say such marketing gimmicks will make or break a mediocre stream. content counts for something.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 February 2022 - 08:12 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Really? the sound packs are that important? I've never tried one.
I suppose it's all about your audience. If you are a streamer and someone watches your stream and wants to try this game out, they'll wonder why they have different sounds. I guess the point I'm making is, it would seem to misrepresent the game in a way. But then again, I don't see very many people watching MWO streams unless they have played MWO at some time.

[RickySpanish]

TheCaptainJZ, on 18 February 2022 - 08:13 AM, said:

Really? the sound packs are that important? I've never tried one.
I suppose it's all about your audience. If you are a streamer and someone watches your stream and wants to try this game out, they'll wonder why they have different sounds. I guess the point I'm making is, it would seem to misrepresent the game in a way. But then again, I don't see very many people watching MWO streams unless they have played MWO at some time.

Honestly I would recommend it; sound is criminally neglected in games, in my opinion. Very few games produce the sorts of soundscapes modern hardware is capable of. Even with just straight sound replacement that MWO sound mods offer, your experience will be completely revolutionized. Not to say that sound in MWO is poor, but the mods certainly give a wonderfully fresh take.

[Heavy Money]

PGI doesn't care about sounds mods because they don't matter.
PGI also isn't going to change their official policy because then people will try to game it. They are reserving the full right to apply their no mods policy as they see fit and aren't going to formalize exceptions to it because that only opens up problems for them, and doesn't actually solve anything.

If people start agitating about it they have two options: Start banning some of their highest profile community members that help keep the game relevant over a letter of the law issue instead of spirit of the law issue, or ignore the people complaining. Both make people feel bad and waste PGI's time.

The solution is to not agitate over a triviality. Sound mods are good for the game. Don't attack harmless sound mods just because somebody might find some way to abuse one. If that happens, then attack just that. Otherwise you ruin things for everyone for no gain.

[Ignatius Audene]

posing as wolf in hot tub and i will sub

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 18 February 2022 - 11:21 AM.

[Escef]

RickySpanish, on 18 February 2022 - 07:01 AM, said:

Are you going to tell everyone I hate children next? Oh! Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?! Find a better way to distort my words, "misogyny" is so 2019.

Wow, well, ok. You do you. Just don't do the kids.

LordNothing, on 18 February 2022 - 08:06 AM, said:

its been a well established fact in marketing and entertainment that sex sells.

Who's the #1 streamer again?

[Nightbird]

Competitive players mod sound to make footsteps super loud. With a good positional sound headset, it gives free seismic sensor basically as you can hear mechs behind you from 400 meters away or when someone is going to come around a corner in front. I learned this 5 years ago when I was playing with NS, and it was a tip given from better comp teams so it is what it is. Don't expect any bans.

Edited by Nightbird, 18 February 2022 - 12:36 PM.