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We Have War


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#21 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 01:21 AM

View PostThe Basilisk, on 10 March 2022 - 01:14 AM, said:


RRRrrriiight and your source for this information is...FoxNews.....
Posted Image
Or are you trrying to be irronic or satirical...can't tell


I'm assuming you didn't watch it? Of all the fox news opinion hosts Tucker always brings the facts. But yes in general I trust fox about as much as any other outlet. But again before you bash it watch it.

#22 Gravlen

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 01:45 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 01:21 AM, said:


I'm assuming you didn't watch it? Of all the fox news opinion hosts Tucker always brings the facts. But yes in general I trust fox about as much as any other outlet. But again before you bash it watch it.


According to Fox News and Tucker himself, Tucker Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' 'No reasonable person would believe that he was about to state facts' on his show. He's a dishonest propagandist, but at least he's well paid.

#23 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 01:50 AM

View PostGravlen, on 10 March 2022 - 01:45 AM, said:

According to Fox News and Tucker himself, Tucker Carlson is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' 'No reasonable person would believe that he was about to state facts' on his show. He's a dishonest propagandist, but at least he's well paid.


Did you watch the video or are you repeating a narrative someone gave you without watching it? Even cnn and msnbc report factually but you have to wade through all the rank propaganda to get to it.

edit; But to summarize it looks like the US did indeed fund bioweapon facilities in ukraine researching rather nasty diseases. Search it up and pick an outlet you trust then.

Edited by Meep Meep, 10 March 2022 - 01:53 AM.


#24 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 04:03 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 01:50 AM, said:


Did you watch the video or are you repeating a narrative someone gave you without watching it? Even cnn and msnbc report factually but you have to wade through all the rank propaganda to get to it.

edit; But to summarize it looks like the US did indeed fund bioweapon facilities in ukraine researching rather nasty diseases. Search it up and pick an outlet you trust then.

No, he’s quoting Tucker Carlson’s lawyers. Those really are the words they used to defend him in court.

#25 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 04:20 AM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 04:03 AM, said:

No, he’s quoting Tucker Carlson’s lawyers. Those really are the words they used to defend him in court.


Thats the standard defense for nuisance lawsuits for every media personality. Search it up everyone uses it no matter what side of the ideological room they stand in.

Have you watched the video because he gives sources and proofs that the US was funding bioweapon research there. The defense for it from the US is that its for preventative measures in case someone else makes the same type of bug so they can counter it. But do you know the only difference between a lab that does research to stop a pandemic and one doing research to start one?

Intent.

Thats it. Both labs will produce the exact same bugs.

Now am I saying this is to be used to say the invasion is correct or to be condoned? Absolutely not as there are other ways to deal with biolabs doing banned research that don't involve full out war. But it does show that there is far more going on here than the simple black and white narrative of evil empire vs angelic peaceful nation the media on all sides are trying to push.

Remember that Zelensky has had journalist jailed and freedom of speech restricted and media outlets critical of his government shut down along with allowing the ukraininan banking system to be used as a global money laundering station for every criminal cartel and globalist ngo or human trafficking org and even terrorist orgs. Might as well call him a mini putin on that front.

Unfortunately the only ones that are going to suffer are the poor civilians who had nothing to do with any of it getting caught in the middle.

Its a crappy situation with no leaders or heroes to point to past the courageous defenders caught up in a war they shouldn't be fighting.

#26 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 06:13 AM

Two points here.

First, you're implying that the network's lawyers committed perjury in the defense of their client. Given that, what other falsehoods would network employees be willing to utter in pursuit of a paycheck?

Second, if bio-weapons research were occurring there, you'd think Russia would have mentioned it by now, that it would have helped make the case for the "security action" they're currently engaged in. Unless you think that Fox News is better at uncovering things than one of the premier intelligence services in the world, one with a vested and active interest in that nation?

#27 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 07:17 AM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 06:13 AM, said:

Two points here.

First, you're implying that the network's lawyers committed perjury in the defense of their client. Given that, what other falsehoods would network employees be willing to utter in pursuit of a paycheck?

Second, if bio-weapons research were occurring there, you'd think Russia would have mentioned it by now, that it would have helped make the case for the "security action" they're currently engaged in. Unless you think that Fox News is better at uncovering things than one of the premier intelligence services in the world, one with a vested and active interest in that nation?


Sigh.. Every media type gets a hundred or more frivolous nuisance lawsuits a year from everyone and their grandmother claiming their report/story/opinion made them sell all their grandpa's stock or it caused their hair to fall out from stress or omg your words were violence to my people all the way to you got my imaginary daughter pregnant and on and on and on and on from every angle you can come from. So the standard defense is hey its a media host they entertain didn't you figure that out yadda yadda yadda. Complain about the ethics all you want but thats the world of lawyers. This is also true of politicians and ceo and anyone else with power. They get attacked from every angle but you don't hear about it because 99.99% of the cases are frivolous claims the lawyers use stock defenses to beat away.

As to the actual relevant bit is Reuters good enough?

https://www.reuters....ine-2022-03-09/

Also if you had watched the video you would have seen the testimony of a US official given to a US congressman that yes there are US funded bioweapons labs in ukraine but they are for good uses not bad. Remember the only difference between a 'good' and 'bad' use lab is the intent of what to do with the bugs they make.

Again there is a lot more going on with this conflict that is being directly reported.

#28 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 07:30 AM

What I know is that Fox is eager to push a pro-Russian stance. Meanwhile, from the article you're quoting:

"Reuters was unable to independently confirm her information."

#29 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 07:59 AM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 07:30 AM, said:

What I know is that Fox is eager to push a pro-Russian stance. Meanwhile, from the article you're quoting:

"Reuters was unable to independently confirm her information."


Umm fox is pushing a pro ukrainian stance? Every host including Tucker has denounced the invasion and the daily reports from them are almost all anti putin and pro zelensky like every other msm outlet? Hannity called for russian insiders to assassinate putin? The other host shows report about civilians getting killed and all the rest? I can't think of a single pro russian stance on the entire network. Can you link us some?

You asked if the russians has made an accusation. That reuters link shows they did. The part reuters couldn't confirm is if the claims by the russians were true. They are true because yesterday in testimony to congress a US official said yes the pentagon was funding bioweapon research in ukraine but its the good guy labs not the bad guy labs.

Yet again if you had watched the video you could have completely ignored anything Tucker had said and listened to what the US official said in testimony.

#30 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:26 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 07:59 AM, said:


Umm fox is pushing a pro ukrainian stance? Every host including Tucker has denounced the invasion and the daily reports from them are almost all anti putin and pro zelensky like every other msm outlet? Hannity called for russian insiders to assassinate putin? The other host shows report about civilians getting killed and all the rest? I can't think of a single pro russian stance on the entire network. Can you link us some?


I'm at work right now, so I'll just link you one. There's a compilation in there if you care to look.

https://news.yahoo.c...-051916289.html

#31 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 08:46 AM

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm at work right now, so I'll just link you one. There's a compilation in there if you care to look.

https://news.yahoo.c...-051916289.html


The compilations include stuff like this.


[color=#121212]Carlson, who played into Kremlin talking points by declaring that Ukraine was [/color]“not a democracy”[color=#121212], launched an apparent attempt to humanize Putin.[/color]


Ukraine isn't a democracy. Zelensky has used the exact same methods of jailing journalists and shutting down critical media just like putin and every other dictator. This is open source knowledge you can search up anytime you want.

Tucker is a target for hit pieces because all of media does this to each other now in a constant mud slinging ratings war.

And yet again if you had watched the video you could have completely ignored everything in it except the testimony showing that the US was funding bioweapons labs.

Are you just in an argumentative mood this morning? Posted Image

#32 Snake Hughes

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:08 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 08:46 AM, said:


And yet again if you had watched the video you could have completely ignored everything in it except the testimony showing that the US was funding bioweapons labs.

Are you just in an argumentative mood this morning? Posted Image

of course, who else can be guilty of all the troubles? only US, Europe and NATO in general
the same that tells Russia, they invent new reasons every 2 days. which are next?

#33 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:08 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 08:46 AM, said:

Are you just in an argumentative mood this morning? Posted Image


Always. But usually about more important things like XL engines. Posted Image

#34 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:18 AM

View PostSnake Hughes, on 10 March 2022 - 09:08 AM, said:

of course, who else can be guilty of all the troubles? only US, Europe and NATO in general
the same that tells Russia, they invent new reasons every 2 days. which are next?


I'm an American and I can tell you that our government has been corrupt for decades now. We are trying to fix it but its not easy to root out corruption thats been in play since the 60's. There are no 'good' players right now. Just nations looking out for themselves. The US and nato meddling in ukraines affairs are how we got here anyways with the election rigging that started your civil war back in 2014. I'm sorry your government is corrupt too and got you in this situation.

#35 Snake Hughes

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:29 AM

The US and NATO dont meddling in Ukraines affairs. What cant be said about Russia, especially if you mentioned the events of 2014. and it wasnt civilian war, it was first step of russian aggression.

#36 Meep Meep

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 09:43 AM

View PostSnake Hughes, on 10 March 2022 - 09:29 AM, said:

The US and NATO dont meddling in Ukraines affairs. What cant be said about Russia, especially if you mentioned the events of 2014. and it wasnt civilian war, it was first step of russian aggression.


I'll assume that everyone agrees that the Cato Institute is a neutral player yes?

https://www.cato.org...raine-hypocrisy

#37 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 10:28 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 09:43 AM, said:


I'll assume that everyone agrees that the Cato Institute is a neutral player yes?

https://www.cato.org...raine-hypocrisy


Nope, sorry. The Cato Institute is a think tank. All think tanks have a tilt, by their very nature they are paid to produce research to back the talking points of politicians. They start with the point they want to make and they backfill from there. The research might indeed be legit, but it has a political goal.

The Cato Institute's goal is to back the stance of Libertarian politicians whose platform includes not spending money outside the United States. To this end, the group produces research that undermines any expenditure of capital abroad. This particular piece seems to be an effort to discredit the notion that Russia tried to interfere in the 2016 election, and does so by disparaging Ukraine and supporting the Russian invasion of Crimea.

EDIT

Interestingly enough, the Cato Institute has put out another article on why Russian disinformation is largely failing in this campaign. (See, I do read your points, even if I refute them. I argue politely. Posted Image )

https://www.cato.org...mits-propaganda

Since it is Russia who says all the things about neo-n*zis and Ukrainian nuclear weapons and Ukrainian chemical weapons, I am not inclined for this very reason to give them any credence.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 10 March 2022 - 10:38 AM.


#38 Snake Hughes

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 10:31 AM

View PostMeep Meep, on 10 March 2022 - 09:43 AM, said:


I'll assume that everyone agrees that the Cato Institute is a neutral player yes?

https://www.cato.org...raine-hypocrisy

doesnt look like a neutral player for me. they only criticize the actions of American presidents.
the given article is only the thoughts of one person, and doesnt coincide much with the realities. dated 2017 but looks like wrote with help only google search :)
I wont go into details, because its the same when you try to explain me the internal affairs of your country.

View PostScrapIron Prime, on 10 March 2022 - 10:28 AM, said:

Nope, sorry. The Cato Institute is a think tank. All think tanks have a tilt, by their very nature they are paid to produce research to back the talking points of politicians. They start with the point they want to make and they backfill from there. The research might indeed be legit, but it has a political goal.

The Cato Institute's goal is to back the stance of Libertarian politicians whose platform includes not spending money outside the United States. To this end, the group produces research that undermines any expenditure of capital abroad. This particular piece seems to be an effort to discredit the notion that Russia tried to interfere in the 2016 election, and does so by disparaging Ukraine and supporting the Russian invasion of Crimea.

my first impression wasnt wrong

#39 An6ryMan69

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 11:31 AM

The Russians invaded another country, and they are killing people.

It's not defendable, period.

Rolling up and killing people is murder, period, and murderers should be treated as such, with no hiding behind flags or orders.

Even the absurd idea being thrown about now by other nations of Ukraine negotiating with Russia, is crazy.

Imagine this - A burglar breaks into your home and starts smashing up the place and murdering your family members. While you are fighting with the murderer to save your surviving family members, a neighbor shows up and suggests you that you should negotiate with the murderer, and maybe you can work out some sort of deal with him.

That's what's going in in Ukraine right now.

There is no gray area here people.

Wake the f**k up!

Edited by An6ryMan69, 10 March 2022 - 11:34 AM.


#40 ScrapIron Prime

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Posted 10 March 2022 - 11:55 AM

View PostAn6ryMan69, on 10 March 2022 - 11:31 AM, said:

Imagine this - A burglar breaks into your home and starts smashing up the place and murdering your family members. While you are fighting with the murderer to save your surviving family members, a neighbor shows up and suggests you that you should negotiate with the murderer, and maybe you can work out some sort of deal with him.


Basically, but the neighbor can't do much about it because the burglar has a friend standing by with a truck to drive through the preschool where the neighbor's children are, and keeps mentioning that fact. (Hello, nuclear weapons.)





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