48 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

everyone should push together. an assault that pushes first often pushes alone. which means dead assault and you are out 80-100 tons. nobody should want to throw their assaults away no matter if they are piloting them or not.

[ThreeStooges]

Lrm atlas is best atlas. So many timid people in every mech class. I got tired of trying to flank,scout or assult when most of the not-assults didn't I just went lrms on my 100 t lrm boat skull face. If the snv-a or ncts can be 1000m away so can I.

[pattonesque]

ThreeStooges, on 25 March 2022 - 02:42 PM, said:

Lrm atlas is best atlas. So many timid people in every mech class. I got tired of trying to flank,scout or assult when most of the not-assults didn't I just went lrms on my 100 t lrm boat skull face. If the snv-a or ncts can be 1000m away so can I.

if you must LRM in a 100t assault, do it in an assault that is built for it:

https://mwo.nav-alph...18359c37_STK-3H

https://mwo.nav-alph...4ebb7440_FNR-5E

second one likely better with the hero Fafnir and an LPPC or TAG

[sosegado]

Lots of good reasoning behind most of the responses here from military to tactical and so on.

As a long time assault pilot that almost exclusively solo's in QP I have boiled the answer to this question down to a simple formulae based on one main property: Esprit de Corp.

If at anytime before, during, or after first contact with the enemy anyone on your team Types or Voips any of the following:

1...Follow the assault
2...Guard the assault
3...Protect the assault
4...Stay with the assault
5...Wait for the assault
6...Voips or Types nothing but is never more than 100 meters from your assault.

or some variation of the above..

Then feel free to use your assault as the lead push after communicating your intentions to them because your team seems to have your back and wants to win.

If you don't hear any of those things then you better be prepared to clutch or get ready to get stomped.

To the non assault pilots that take offense at that..you are right ..you don't have to communicate or do any of that at any time!

But look at the bonus you get if you do...

cya on the battlefield

[PocketYoda]

From the majority of games, its who ever gets there first pushes first..

snv-a

Under tonnage maybe but it absolute mauls up close. No need to sit back in that.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 25 March 2022 - 06:13 PM.

[pattonesque]

Nomad Tech, on 25 March 2022 - 06:04 PM, said:

From the majority of games, its who ever gets there first pushes first..

snv-a

Under tonnage maybe but it absolute mauls up close. No need to sit back in that.

A mech with ER larges and LRM20s mauls up close?

[ScrapIron Prime]

pattonesque, on 25 March 2022 - 06:49 PM, said:

A mech with ER larges and LRM20s mauls up close?

Up close is good. That's why you need the Artemis. Under tonnage is bad though. Needs a tweak.

I counter with this fellow. Same idea, but he has the armor to take it and the heat sinks to hang.

https://mwo.nav-alph...324d13_HGN-733P

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 25 March 2022 - 07:49 PM.

[MyriadDigits]

Nomad Tech, on 25 March 2022 - 06:04 PM, said:

From the majority of games, its who ever gets there first pushes first..

snv-a

Under tonnage maybe but it absolute mauls up close. No need to sit back in that.

5 tons undertonned is inarguably in "just buy a smaller mech" territory. Literally just put that on a MAD-IIC-B instead of desecrating a SNV like that. You lose a whopping 24 points of total armor to get an improvement in every other metric

Or, if you're too poor to buy a whole new mech that's objectively better for what you're doing, you could at least swap to standard structure and get another heatsink, because the weight saving from endo is a full half ton less than you have left over in your current build.

[JudauAshta]

Nomad Tech, on 25 March 2022 - 06:04 PM, said:

From the majority of games, its who ever gets there first pushes first..

snv-a

Under tonnage maybe but it absolute mauls up close. No need to sit back in that.

??
you would get dumpstered in close range by most assaults and even some heavies if you use that build....
thats a ranged build

my snv-a is dangerous in close~med ranges cause it has 4 med wubs but importantly has 4 atm 12s

MyriadDigits, on 25 March 2022 - 08:20 PM, said:

5 tons undertonned is inarguably in "just buy a smaller mech" territory. Literally just put that on a MAD-IIC-B instead of desecrating a SNV like that. You lose a whopping 24 points of total armor to get an improvement in every other metric

Or, if you're too poor to buy a whole new mech that's objectively better for what you're doing, you could at least swap to standard structure and get another heatsink, because the weight saving from endo is a full half ton less than you have left over in your current build.

yeh super nova is not as good as mad cat mk2 or blood asp imo, as far as 90 ton clanner mech is concerned.

Edited by JudauAshta, 25 March 2022 - 09:22 PM.

[katoult]

Nomad Tech, on 25 March 2022 - 06:04 PM, said:

snv-a
Under tonnage maybe but it absolute mauls up close. No need to sit back in that.

Switch the 3 ERLL to 3 LPL, leave out the ERML, add in a JJ and go full heat mitigation on the skill tree.

[Beastbear]

pushing overall is a lost art form. As far as lrm assaults, i may be in the wrong class but as soon as i start spectating that all i usually see is wasted armor dying last, or cbill padding at the expense of the team.

People need to remember armor sharing doesn't mean tanking the entire enemy team, it does mean being in a position that can lead to split fire instead on focused, and leading a charge on 2-3 with fire support. It's amazing how easy it is to still panic and overwhelm an enemy or 3 if your pumping dmg out over the shoulder of a tank, it's a lot harder if your tank is under weight to an assault

[RickySpanish]

Only push if you are short on time, or if staying put would somehow be more dangerous. Pushing for the sake of it is usually dumb, especially if the enemy knows you are coming. A better idea is to take up a more favourable firing position with better lines of sight, even if that means retreating.

[Magnus Santini]

RickySpanish, on 26 March 2022 - 06:19 AM, said:

Only push if you are short on time, or if staying put would somehow be more dangerous. Pushing for the sake of it is usually dumb, especially if the enemy knows you are coming. . . .

These are good reasons. But I think there are two main reasons to consider a push. (1) There is a critical advantage to having the team occupy that territory on the map; or (2) part of the enemy is in a vulnerable/exposed position and ripe for a decisive attack.
As to tactics, you can't pick your teammates or their mechs in qp. Each has different optimum ranges and speed for their loadout and the goal is to have everyone attacking the enemy (maximum firepower) in view of the enemy (dividing return fire while sharing armor). In my view if your mech has reached your optimum range for all its weapons, and is blazing away at a distance close enough to attract return fire, you have travelled as far as you need. Don't walk so close that your weapons are below minimum range.
Assaults first? Not unless they are instantly in their optimum range. Fast movers should go first because they need time to close range. But the main force needs to appear promptly and be the bigger threat before the entire enemy team turns and picks off the lights. The advantage of the lights is forcing strong enemies to ignore the main force.

[JudauAshta]

you can't push in clan assault cause cauldron thinks they are op lmao

they all melt, at least IS got some durable ones.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

If your team consists mainly of Laser Snipers, Small Laser Brawlers without high speed and LRM boats, a push is usually a bad idea.
Suppressive fire cannot be built up effectively due to lack of range or DPS, plus quick problems due to heat buildup, if the enemy has good cover and a better coordinated approach, every push ends up like the infamous attack of the English Light cavalry in the Crimean War against the Russian artillery positions.

For a push you need a more effective firepower than the enemy group, which can also maintain it, because the enemy must be prevented to fire effectively on you when approaching, if only one opponent of 6 on you gehindertw ird, you are dead.
The enemy must either have the worse position, ineffective in coordination and hit efficiency or be greatly outnumbered in group size, so that he can be flanked and surrounded (last stand).

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 27 March 2022 - 04:01 AM.

[Horseman]

"Solo push" is not a push, it's suicide. Assaults cannot push alone, and further you should only push once the enemy has been softened up by longer-ranged friendlies.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

solo Push and hope the other see it and follows is like above a Suicide Run , when 6 Guys firing of you (and is hard to overseeing a lone Assault) you not have the Time for Firing return

[DaZur]

As of late... Assault pushes and remainder of teammates near them scatter with the first return volley, leaving the lone assault to get vaporized.

I take that back... This happens regardless of class of mech pushing.

Edited by DaZur, 28 March 2022 - 09:42 PM.

[caravann]

Assault Bash
Heavy Rush
Medium Push
Light Flush

[Lumovanis]

I play a lot of QP solo and I have found that it is difficult to pry people from their peek and cover game to push with assaults. I have an SRM/UAC10 Madcat that I play somewhat frequently and I can't even get people to push with me with VOIP. Even worse is that sometimes people form up and look like they are backing a push and as soon as any enemy at all appears, they all scramble for cover, abandoning the assault out in the open. This is pretty discouraging when playing an assault, so I understand assault players being hesitant to push because they can't rely on the fact their allies will properly support them.

I'm not asking people to blindly charge in with me, but there are many times where a comfy potato squad needs to be pressed into close range and the team just stands back lets them take potshots all game, tearing the brawlers apart at ranges they aren't good at (or possibly capable of). It's honestly kind of infuriating, and it was something I liked about 8v8 (where the game rarely devolved into a cover poking match and people were more ready to push into firing lines to break them).