15 replies to this topic

[PhantasmX]

I am extremely happy that I am seeing people finally play objective for this event. It is a nice change of pace from every match being played as skirmish. The only thing that bugs me is that it is apparently a "Foolish thing to do on a weekend" to play objective on an objective based game type. If people hate objectives so much and they are so foolish, why not just remove objectives from the game entirely? I know most just ignore them anyway, but I enjoy having a primary goal in ANY game and everybody gives flak about it.

Again, overall it is refreshing to finally see the community actually try to play objective and I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this. I just wish it wasn't framed as a foolish thing to do when it is clearly the goal of the gametype.

[CreativeAnarchy]

Playing the objective doesn't net people anything, killing the other payers does, both win the game.

QP was not meant to dish out rewards, that is what faction play was for but this game is pretty much about the QP at this point, some faction play does happen but there isn't much else going on either way.

If playing the objective gave rewards, people would play them more. If your team is out killing the other team and you go sneak to the base and destroy/stand in the square and win, you don't really get much reward and since you did no damage, you can even go down in PSR.

People are helping this event but once it is over, they'll go back to ignoring the assault capture unless it is convenient to win.

Edited by CreativeAnarchy, 04 April 2022 - 04:44 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Fun fact: Assault used to be the only game mode and capturing the enemy base was the only win condition. Even if you killed all 8 enemies, you still had to cap their base.

[John Bronco]

Objectives exist to apply pressure to the clock or to close out a game where someone is just running away endlessly.

The primary objective is always killing the enemy team.

Stated differently, the best way to play the objective is to prevent the other team from playing it by taking their mechs off the field.

[pattonesque]

we love to stand in a square and not shoot don't we folks

[ScrapIron Prime]

TheCaptainJZ, on 04 April 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Fun fact: Assault used to be the only game mode and capturing the enemy base was the only win condition. Even if you killed all 8 enemies, you still had to cap their base.

The kids call that "Incursion" these days. And I like it better than Assault. "Destroy the Field HQ" has a much better ring to it than "Stand in their Laser Box or Not".

[Akamia Terizen]

IIRC, at least after killing most of the enemy team, capturing the base in Assault actually rewards more C-Bills than total eliminations...

It's not enough to incentivize going for it, apparently, but it's still slightly more.

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 04 April 2022 - 06:40 PM.

[w0qj]

MWO must design the playing objectives carefully, so that players will not feel frustrated.
MWO please ensure that a few bad eggs won't spoil the entire batch (ie: the game mode itself).

Examples:

1. Skirmish
Problem: Last enemy runs away, refuses to fight. Your team spends 5+ minutes hunting last enemy down.

Solution: Skirmish add condition (like chess): 3 minute counter timer to end Skirmish, if both sides does not shoot within this 3 minute window.

2a. Assault Mode QP for this "Foolish Things to to this Weekend Event": Assault Mode QP, many times from actual experiences observed:

Problem: Enemy side clearly lost, enemy down to last mech, and we were capturing enemy base.
Last enemy JJ into own base, and we had to KILL it. Ended up 12-0.
Could not complete the game objective as last enemy died, enemy purposely denying us the Assault capture enemy base objective

Solution: when your Team is on enemy base and capturing it, and then killing the last enemy while enemy is also in enemy's base, this also count towards Assault capture enemy base objective

pattonesque, on 04 April 2022 - 05:38 PM, said:

we love to stand in a square and not shoot don't we folks

2b. Assault Mode QP for this "Foolish Things to to this Weekend Event"

Problem: 12-man team not choosing Assault Mode during "Foolish Things to to this Weekend Event". Some players still want to complete their Assault Mode objective for 1000 MC+MechBay, but others have already gotten theirs, and *might* be active not choosing Assault Mode.
https://mwomercs.com...20#entry6452023
Solution: Choosing Game Mode time doles out more Assault Mode for choosing?
I estimate that "double" the chance of Assault Mode for choosing would suffice.
ie: It is not necessary for Assault Mode to be available for choosing every time for choosing.

3. Conclusion
MWO must design the playing objectives carefully, so that players will not feel frustrated.
MWO please ensure that a few bad eggs won't spoil the entire batch (ie: the game mode itself).

Edited by w0qj, 04 April 2022 - 07:12 PM.

[PocketYoda]

pattonesque, on 04 April 2022 - 05:38 PM, said:

we love to stand in a square and not shoot don't we folks

I feel both should be needed.

[TheCaptainJZ]

For Domination, you still have to stand in the circle even after the last enemy is destroyed. For Conquest, you have to be on course to have more points if all the enemies are killed. For Incursion, you have to deal damage to the enemy base. Perhaps the win condition in Assault needs tweaked accordingly so you have to step on the base.

[LordNothing]

the kill objective should override any other objective in play. i dont like having lose ends to tie up after the other team are dead.

[An6ryMan69]

I actually think objectives overall are set up pretty well.

Yes, the current "foolish things..." challenge can get wrecked by a single player being an idiot. I saw it three times where our team was up by 4-5 kills and was actively capping the enemy base and some jackass killed the last enemy, even after people cried out not to. Unfortunately, the power of stupid is a thing. But life goes on.

As for people overall sometimes ignoring objectives, we can't fret the details and I think changing details will not work. Why? The reason people download this game in the first place is to take out their giant fighting robot and blow the crap out of other people's giant fighting robots, so that's what they do. I don't know anyone that installed this game to customize a deadly giant fighting robot and then use it to run over and stand by a flag and wait for a timer countdown, so any objectives even slightly similar to that run counter to why people even play the game in the first place. Still not an excuse to screw over your team members to get a kill and rob them of 1000MC by the way, but you guys know what I mean.

Edited by An6ryMan69, 05 April 2022 - 12:35 PM.

[LordNothing]

i find that most event objectives sort themselves out if you just play normal. people start playing like idiots trying to chase objectives, and forget that you actually have to kill mechs to have a chance at holding the cap. the result are bad matches with low scores and low event progress. just try to play well and the events sort themselves out.

[PocketYoda]

CreativeAnarchy, on 04 April 2022 - 04:42 PM, said:

Playing the objective doesn't net people anything, killing the other payers does, both win the game.

QP was not meant to dish out rewards, that is what faction play was for but this game is pretty much about the QP at this point, some faction play does happen but there isn't much else going on either way.

If playing the objective gave rewards, people would play them more. If your team is out killing the other team and you go sneak to the base and destroy/stand in the square and win, you don't really get much reward and since you did no damage, you can even go down in PSR.

People are helping this event but once it is over, they'll go back to ignoring the assault capture unless it is convenient to win.

Faction Play is a mess.. Bias Attack and Defend maps got old fast.. being funneled through kill boxes 4 times and hoping the defending team can't aim isn't fun..

The whole Faction play design sucks. No wonder Quickplay is king.. Faction play should have used Quickplay maps with drop decks..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 05 April 2022 - 05:16 PM.

[PhantasmX]

How about an easy solution: Make it so capturing an objective is always worth at least 500 or so damage worth of match score? They have mechs specifically designed to play objectives that are mostly useless outside of this (Spider, anyone?). Or again, remove objectives from the game entirely if they are such a negative thing that the community refuses to play them. In my opinion, the base in any sort of a military-esque game should be protected at all costs and the consequences should be dire should you lose it. At the same time, capturing an enemy base should be an incredible victory, worth much more than losing 9 of 12 lives but managing to kill the other guys on the way. You lose your home base, you WILL die in newly claimed enemy territory.

TLDR: Make capturing objectives worthwhile with bonus score and/or c-bills and people will take an objective seriously.

Edited by PhantasmX, 05 April 2022 - 08:13 PM.

[Bassault]

Why do we want the game to go from a fairly nuanced and engaging combat experience to sitting in a blue square until the bar goes down? Conquest is good enough.

Edited by I LOVE ANNIHILATORS, 05 April 2022 - 10:10 PM.