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#121 FupDup

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 05:07 PM

I'd rather have wire-guided missiles be Streaks rather than regular SRMs. Yes, dumbfire SRMs aren't canon, but they work effectively and feel way better/funner to use than current guided missiles.

That aside, since this game is built in Cryengine, and Crysis did have a laser-guided missile launcher, it shouldn't be super difficult to get the mechanic in MWO. At least, assuming we had more than 4 devs.

#122 The6thMessenger

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 05:11 PM

View PostFupDup, on 17 May 2022 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'd rather have wire-guided missiles be Streaks rather than regular SRMs. Yes, dumbfire SRMs aren't canon, but they work effectively and feel way better/funner to use than current guided missiles.


I would like to see at Thumper and Arrow IV, eschewing the consumable Strikes, for I find them rather cheap, comparatively so. Like what, just one of up to 1-5 consumables? 6 with certain mechs. Total of 24 strikes for the entire team. Yeah it's bearable now, but it's still cheap.

If you kitted a dedicated artillery mech, that's 1 out of 12 that isn't in the front-line, much like a dedicated LRM mech but actually requires proper coordination than just "locks pls". Sure there's a joke that someone could hit you at Mining Colony, fired from Terra Therma, but still.

The Thumper is simple enough, it's just a super long-range AC20 with a lot of bullet-drop and deals AOE damage, so you have to fire it at a steep angle, with a bit of skill to land.

But the Arrow IV, it will just fire straight but requires a TAG to steer like Half-life 2 rocket-launcher. That means the user can fire up in the air, and then another with a tag can just guide it back down. Alternatively, the launcher can also have the TAG and can be steered on it's own, like so:


Edited by The6thMessenger, 17 May 2022 - 06:14 PM.


#123 LordNothing

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 06:06 PM

View PostFupDup, on 17 May 2022 - 05:07 PM, said:

I'd rather have wire-guided missiles be Streaks rather than regular SRMs. Yes, dumbfire SRMs aren't canon, but they work effectively and feel way better/funner to use than current guided missiles.

That aside, since this game is built in Cryengine, and Crysis did have a laser-guided missile launcher, it shouldn't be super difficult to get the mechanic in MWO. At least, assuming we had more than 4 devs.


i remember when i did quake modding in the early days. homing missiles were a 5 minute tutorial.

of course i grew up at a time when game developers knew how to write code and also do relevant math.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 May 2022 - 06:08 PM.


#124 LordNothing

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 06:19 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 May 2022 - 05:00 PM, said:


You mean steer like Half Life rocket launcher? Would be interesting, but I think that would only work better with Arrow IV.


i have never played a valve product. but yes.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 May 2022 - 06:19 PM.


#125 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 May 2022 - 05:11 PM, said:

The Thumper is simple enough, it's just a super long-range AC20 with a lot of bullet-drop and deals AOE damage, so you have to fire it at a steep angle, with a bit of skill to land.

You're thinking of the Long Tom, Thumper was the smallest of the three.

I like what one of the MW4 mods did with those though.

The Long Tom had the best damage given it was the heaviest, but it had a more controlled splash (it was like 50-75m radius or something). it was like the AC20 with a trajectory. It was actually somewhat usable in city/brawl engagements because of how controlled the splash was but that game also disincentivized hugging mechs since mechs exploded on destruction.

The Thumper had lower damage output but had crazy splash (100m radius or something silly like that) and shot 10 shells in a burst. You used it similar to how arty strikes currently work since it was more of a nuisance weapon.

The Sniper was just an Arrow IV that lacked an arc and moved much faster and with a shorter lock-on time than the Arrow IV to compensate. So it was sort of like the cross between the Thunderbolt missile and the Arrow IV.

Probably worth noting though that the mod mixed the tonnages of the Sniper and the Thumper (Sniper was 10 tons and Thumper was 15 which the reverse of how it is in TT).

#126 The6thMessenger

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Posted 17 May 2022 - 11:32 PM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

You're thinking of the Long Tom, Thumper was the smallest of the three.


Fair enough, okay.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

The Long Tom had the best damage given it was the heaviest, but it had a more controlled splash (it was like 50-75m radius or something). it was like the AC20 with a trajectory. It was actually somewhat usable in city/brawl engagements because of how controlled the splash was but that game also disincentivized hugging mechs since mechs exploded on destruction.


I suppose it means it would be interesting to have in MWO, that it would be much more effective because we tend to deathball.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

The Thumper had lower damage output but had crazy splash (100m radius or something silly like that) and shot 10 shells in a burst. You used it similar to how arty strikes currently work since it was more of a nuisance weapon.


Not sure how balanced would this be in here, but I guess I'll take it.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

The Sniper was just an Arrow IV that lacked an arc and moved much faster and with a shorter lock-on time than the Arrow IV to compensate. So it was sort of like the cross between the Thunderbolt missile and the Arrow IV.


Lock-On? So basically we can auto-aim, but it's just not homing? That's an interesting take.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 17 May 2022 - 10:06 PM, said:

Probably worth noting though that the mod mixed the tonnages of the Sniper and the Thumper (Sniper was 10 tons and Thumper was 15 which the reverse of how it is in TT).


Given it's effectiveness, I would rather have them just effective by tonnage.

#127 Glaive-

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 07:21 AM

I can understand why we don't have some of the weapons listed in the OP, as to "properly" implement them, PGI would have to make new weapon models for them across all the mechs.

Some of the weapons like the X-pulse lasers and light ACs would be easy to add, but would technically be a timeline jump, so maybe that's why PGI avoided. Personally I wouldn't mind a jump in the "timeline" (not like it's very relevant to MWO at this point anyways) for a few new weapons. I think X-pulses would be a no-brainer since they are literally just ER pulse lasers for the IS side.

Improved Heavy Gauss Rifles would also make sense to add, and apparently are part of the civil war era, so I don't see any reason against adding that one.

Edited by Glaive-, 18 May 2022 - 07:24 AM.


#128 Sjorpha

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 07:45 AM

I actually think there's enough weapons and mechs in the game already, to me having too many things to balance can actually be a detriment and reduce variety in practice.

It's a bit like the formats with a larger card pool in trading card games often doesn't have a more varied metagame because the more cards there are the more the power level of top decks push other decks and playstyles out of the format.

If there's a significant investment into content creation at some point what I'd like to see is more advanced and ambitious game modes. Basically it's more important to add more things to do rather than more ways of doing them.

The scope and scale of both Solaris and Faction Play could be revisited and rebuilt to something that more people want to play.

I especially think the lack of a mode that properly entices community engagement and forming large units etc is a big missed opportunity. Scaling down CW to the quickplay 2.0 that it is now was a big mistake that killed a whole community, but a lot of those people would still come back if that is fixed.

#129 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 02:47 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 May 2022 - 11:32 PM, said:

Not sure how balanced would this be in here, but I guess I'll take it.

The damage was minimal, maybe 5-10 damage to each section if you were caught in range of all the volleys. It was more of a mind game weapon because you did get your aim knocked by each shell's explosion and the constant bombardment messed with some people (because you gotta keep your mech pristine). However obviously if you stood there and just took the shots yeah, it adds up.

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 17 May 2022 - 11:32 PM, said:

Lock-On? So basically we can auto-aim, but it's just not homing? That's an interesting take.

Probably key to point out in MW4 mercs, Arrow IV were just giant lock-on missiles. The mod I played most gave them 2.5km range but lock-on time was 3 seconds, which seems short in comparison to MWO, but remember it required holding the reticle directly on the mech for 3 seconds so you had to have LOS for 3 full seconds. It also had an arc so it would fly over obstacles. The Sniper lacked an arc and the range (only 1.1km which was 100m outside most radar and visual ranges), but had a faster lock-on time (I think it had 1.5-2 seconds instead of 3). It also had a faster projectile IIRC.

Honestly I'm still not sure how I feel about TAG being the guidance for this. NARCs in that game existed but were much better balanced than their MWO incarnation in that when the section they were attached to was blown off, the NARC stopped working. That and it didn't just open up locks, it behaved such that if you dumb-fired lock capable missiles, they all homed in on the NARC (and not just the mech, the specific section the NARC was attached to).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 May 2022 - 02:52 PM.


#130 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 02:58 PM

View PostSjorpha, on 18 May 2022 - 07:45 AM, said:

I especially think the lack of a mode that properly entices community engagement and forming large units etc is a big missed opportunity. Scaling down CW to the quickplay 2.0 that it is now was a big mistake that killed a whole community, but a lot of those people would still come back if that is fixed.

Large units were the bane of CW in its initial iteration, encouraging MercStar 2.0 is definitely not what the game needs. Scaling down CW was a symptom of a much larger issue, like the fact that CW and the concept of a persistent universe was a flawed project from the get-go, especially for a developer that loves to remind us they aren't a AAA studio.

#131 The6thMessenger

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Posted 18 May 2022 - 06:20 PM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2022 - 02:47 PM, said:

The damage was minimal, maybe 5-10 damage to each section if you were caught in range of all the volleys. It was more of a mind game weapon because you did get your aim knocked by each shell's explosion and the constant bombardment messed with some people (because you gotta keep your mech pristine). However obviously if you stood there and just took the shots yeah, it adds up.


Gonna piss off Comp players I bet.

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2022 - 02:47 PM, said:

Probably key to point out in MW4 mercs, Arrow IV were just giant lock-on missiles.


Yeah. I hated that double-arrow vulture in solaris.


View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2022 - 02:47 PM, said:

Honestly I'm still not sure how I feel about TAG being the guidance for this. NARCs in that game existed but were much better balanced than their MWO incarnation in that when the section they were attached to was blown off, the NARC stopped working. That and it didn't just open up locks, it behaved such that if you dumb-fired lock capable missiles, they all homed in on the NARC (and not just the mech, the specific section the NARC was attached to).


Yeah, NARC is a bit OP in MWO. But I barely see them even then.

That being said, I was thinking of just ballistic artillery piggybacking on weapon lock by auto-aiming the elevation and lead on IDF.

Imagine the hate for Arrow IV that deals spread damage, when there are many people that hate LRMs. No, I think that the only way Arrow IV feels fair is that if it's a guided missile instead that people would put a minimum effort and skill to employ.

#132 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 12:13 PM

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 18 May 2022 - 06:20 PM, said:

Gonna piss off Comp players I bet.

Why would it? It's a huge investment to dedicate to an anti-camping weapon. I would prefer this over arty consumable spam hands down. I'm still of the opinion that consumables have contributed nothing good to the game other than introducing taxes.

View PostThe6thMessenger, on 18 May 2022 - 06:20 PM, said:

Yeah, NARC is a bit OP in MWO. But I barely see them even then.

I wouldn't say OP just lends itself more to the feast or famine nature of missiles, which puts this in the same category as AMS imo.

#133 TheArisen

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 05:00 PM

What are your thoughts on new equipment? Modular armor or more exotic things like Blue Shield? Or PPC capacitors. IMO Blue Shield would need to be re-invented a bit to be worth adding. Maybe some kind of activated energy dmg reduction

#134 LordNothing

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 03:17 AM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 18 May 2022 - 02:58 PM, said:

Large units were the bane of CW in its initial iteration, encouraging MercStar 2.0 is definitely not what the game needs. Scaling down CW was a symptom of a much larger issue, like the fact that CW and the concept of a persistent universe was a flawed project from the get-go, especially for a developer that loves to remind us they aren't a AAA studio.


i wonder what fp would be like with qp mm and group rules. if were being honest, large unit play is not the way fp works anymore. now its loose cobbled together teams fighting more loosely cobbled together teams. and the only reason they cobble together in the first place is to get a higher drop priority.

not that i think that should happen mind you, every attempt at fixing fp has failed up to this point and i dont think it represents enough of the market share any more to invest dev time into it. its also a possibility that an event queue merge will happen.

#135 Weeny Machine

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 04:51 AM

Personally I think it would be great to have a step by step implementation. A whole arsenal of new weapons will just be a huge balancing nightmare

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 19 May 2022 - 12:13 PM, said:

Why would it? It's a huge investment to dedicate to an anti-camping weapon. I would prefer this over arty consumable spam hands down. I'm still of the opinion that consumables have contributed nothing good to the game other than introducing taxes.



I totally agree. I was in a QP match yesterday...7 strikes (directed in the location I was - there could have been other stikes as well) and 3 UAVs

Not fun...

Edited by Weeny Machine, 20 May 2022 - 07:22 AM.


#136 LordNothing

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 08:09 AM

i feel like the consumables also influenced map design in a bad way. for example maps with underwater or underground areas could not be done because they would effectively disable strikes and pgi wanted to sell strikes.

View PostWeeny Machine, on 20 May 2022 - 04:51 AM, said:

Personally I think it would be great to have a step by step implementation. A whole arsenal of new weapons will just be a huge balancing nightmare


yea. i wish they would have introduced a new weapon or two with each mech pack or in mini packs quarterly. that way there is time to balance the weapons over several patch iterations. the weapon models are really the hold up.

Edited by LordNothing, 20 May 2022 - 08:32 AM.


#137 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 11:23 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 20 May 2022 - 03:17 AM, said:


i wonder what fp would be like with qp mm and group rules. if were being honest, large unit play is not the way fp works anymore. now its loose cobbled together teams fighting more loosely cobbled together teams. and the only reason they cobble together in the first place is to get a higher drop priority.

not that i think that should happen mind you, every attempt at fixing fp has failed up to this point and i dont think it represents enough of the market share any more to invest dev time into it. its also a possibility that an event queue merge will happen.

Unless I'm mistaking what you are meaning, that just sounds like a ranked queue at that point. Not against that, would just rather stop treating it as special like FP has traditionally been.

I would also love to see the limited respawn be switched out for no respawn but go to a format like CS:GO where there are multiple rounds and it is first to 2 wins or something like that (something smaller than CS:GO since rounds are typically longer here and people can invest less time overall). That or take a page from MRBC where attrition matters and you get points for kills not just winning so that winning by the skin of your teeth matters less than a flawless victory. MRBC always had an interesting format even if confusing to some people.

#138 Hauptmann Keg Steiner

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 12:58 AM

Small Cockpits and Compact Gyros are really the biggest things I would look forward to; units with head and CT mounts could wield a bigger variety of weapons. Zombie mechs could pack an extra big punch to make up for having to haul around a standard engine. Hell, the Awesome 9M and the Archer Tempest could actually use all of their CT hardpoints at the same time, for once.

Similarly XL Gyros would be nice for freeing up an extra ton or two for mechs that don't need or have CT hardpoints.

Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles would be nice, although knowing PGI, they'd be bigger, heavier, more explosive MRMs with a charge mechanic. You can count on one hand the number of Clan omnimechs that have the hardpoints, unlocked slots, and tonnage to make use of 40s.

#139 Aidan Crenshaw

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 01:49 AM

View PostHauptmann Keg Steiner, on 24 May 2022 - 12:58 AM, said:

Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles would be nice, although knowing PGI, they'd be bigger, heavier, more explosive MRMs with a charge mechanic. You can count on one hand the number of Clan omnimechs that have the hardpoints, unlocked slots, and tonnage to make use of 40s.

Omnis, sure:
Stormcrow
Nova Cat
Hellbringer
Direwolf

But why would the HAG40 be restricted to only Omnis. I bet KDK's and MCII's would love to run two of these.

#140 DONTOR

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Posted 24 May 2022 - 03:43 AM

I want bombast lasers so bad... ARROWs also...





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