11 replies to this topic

[Rhiwaow]

i'm a returning player after a few years of absence

so... according to the ingame pilot skill rating, it seems i really suck at this game. the only times i see an actual increase is when i do like 2 solo kills and 500 dmg and we win the game. if one of those conditions is not met, it's a neutral outcome. and every other outcome means i drop in the pilot skill rating.
this is very frustrating to me. i'm now close to the middle of rank 5.
it also appears that scouting is not valued at all for this metric. is that correct? i had been starting out trying to scout when i came back, but i'm nowhere near dealing 500dmg in a match with a scout, and i just dropped and dropped in the pilot skill rating.

i'm so far only doing quick matches. solaris seems to restrict me to trial mechs, and faction stuff seems to require more fitted mechs than i have, and a deeper knowledge about the game modes so that i know what to bring in the first place.

i guess my question is: is it really expected from me to have multiple (solo) kills and 500+ dmg in each and every game? or is that pilot skill rating messed up?

[ScrapIron Prime]

You’ll get barraged by links and exposition here shortly, but the bottom line is this… the top 50% or so of performers in each match go up, the bottom 50% go down, both usually only by s small amount. Check everyone’s match score on the end screen and you’ll see who is who.

Match score is determined by damage done, with bonuses for for scouting, capping, staying in formation, shooting down UAVs and missiles, etc. but damage done is the main component. The end result of the system is to slowly bubble the more lethal players up to a rank where they will seldom encounter the lower skilled or newer players. It’s not a great system, but it stops the worst stomps from being too common.

if you’re consistently above average in match score as compared to the other 24 people in drop, you’ll gradually rise in tier. Most people hit an equilibrium point where they stop rising, while the most lethal players hit tier 1. And not rising in tier is not a sign of anything being wrong. Tier 3-5 is the vast majority of players.

[Rhiwaow]

thanks... that sounds like instead of starting with small mechs, mastering them, and then going for bigger mechs, i should go for the biggest baddest assault mech to deal as much damage as possible, if i want the pilot skill rating to increase?
that seems counter-intuitive to me, as i figured that it'd match the tonnage, and if i mess something up in an assault then the match favours the other side a lot more heavily than if i play a small mech and mess things up in that
or, i guess what i'd better take away from that is, that pilot skill rating is a kaput mechanic that's not actually saying much about my ability to pull my weight in a fight, and i should pay no attention to it? and more rely on if i feel i did well in a fight instead?

[Aidan Crenshaw]

First, welcome back to MWO!
Second, you should not view light mechs as beginner mechs and bigger=better. The game's balance aims towards that all mechs can have the same impact on a match. That being said, the two classes I find the most difficult are lights and assaults. With these you'll need the most experience, map knowledge and skill to not be a detriment to your team.
Third, PSR change is determined by your matchscore in comparison to the average of your own team and all other 23 players in the match. The above poster's assessment is correct, damage translates to 42.5% into matchscore, but there are many more kickers involved that can lead to high scores. Survival and engagement of the enemy is key here.
The Youtuber and Streamer Brios put up an excellent video that explains how PSR change is calculated. If you're interested, give it a go:

[w0qj]

A warm welcome back to MWO!

Besides what you are already doing (1-2 kills, 500 damage), do try to get "lots" of Kill Assists (8+ from my own observations), which would also help pad up your Match Score, which helps raise your PSR rating!

Doing even "1" damage (even bumping into them!) to enemy counts as "+1 Kill Assist" when that enemy is killed.

Using a well placed UAV (Scouting, ECM Counter, Spotting Assist, etc.) against enemies also count as "+ Kill Assist" when they are killed.

And well placed Artillery Strike also damage multiple enemies, also count as "+ Kill Assist" when they are killed.
(That said, it's harder nowadays to actually kill enemy with Artillery Strike, unless enemy choose to remain in artillery strike zone).

- - - - - - - - - -
Slightly off topic, but perhaps of use to get you back up to speed with the recent changes since April 2021:
(Smurfy.de is very outdated now!)

http://mwo.nav-alpha.com/mechs
http://mwo.nav-alpha.com/equipment
http://mwo.nav-alpha...uipment/weapons
http://mwo.nav-alpha...pment/ghostheat

http://grimmechs.ise...ts?list=general
http://grimmechs.isengrim.org/Database

http://mwomercs.com/...auldron-changes
http://mwomercs.com/...-hsl-quirk-list

Edited by w0qj, 27 April 2022 - 12:48 AM.

[Rhiwaow]

thanks for the welcomes!
and also thanks for the links and tips!

Aidan Crenshaw, on 26 April 2022 - 09:24 PM, said:

Second, you should not view light mechs as beginner mechs and bigger=better.

yeah, i've seen some very good lights in my matches so far. i didn't mean to imply that lights are beginner only mechs. it was more a thought of "i can relearn some basic mechanics of the game by piloting in it, and spotting with it; maybe even get a bit of shooting practice. but if i mess up, it's not like i was the backbone of the team" - while i feel that if i'd be playing an assault, and mess up the loadout or cover or whatever and just fail in the map or get taken out fast, then the assault on the other side that's been the tonnage match for my mech skews things a lot more in the other teams favour

or am i mistaken by thinking that quick play roughly equals the tonnage on both sides?

[Tarl Cabot]

First, think of tiers more in Battletech terminology, Green / Militia / Regular / Veteran / Elite. And from experience and throwing a game's end result into a calculator, it is closer to 40% move up, even if it by 1 PSR point, 1-2 breaks even (PSR pts falls close to zero) and the rest have a negative PSR movement, even if it just 1 point.

At the end of the match, there are two tabs, one that shows the entire team then just your stats. Scouting.. when performed in a way that separates a player from their lance/team, can actually result in fewer triggers/kickers for Matchscore points. Link below lists triggers, what a player's match score can be made up of.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6337261

With that said, imho, players should utilize mediums and heavies first. Lights takes a finest to get the most out of them, whereas Assaults definitely takes situational awareness and working with the team, and slow, where as Mediums and Heavies tend to be faster with the ability to move from one point to another, not as much armor but not at the mercy of being stuck out in the open like an assault, and have the ability to bring enough guns to do the damage.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Rhiwaow, on 27 April 2022 - 03:48 AM, said:

or am i mistaken by thinking that quick play roughly equals the tonnage on both sides?

Let's say the matchmaker tries to match weight classes per side. But a lot of factors make this task difficult and so the weight class balance is the first criteria that is ignored when trying to make a match. You'll often see matches where weight class distribution is all but balanced. We've had a plethora of complaint about this here as well.

[Rhiwaow]

thanks! the list of triggers is quite helpful
i'm currently experimenting mostly with a ssrm dervish and a mrm catapult. still often have maps where i think i did well, and still lose psr

also thanks for the info about the matchmaker ditching weight balance - that makes me feel better about bringing in a heavier mech

[Maj Destruction]

Sorta new guy here (started last fall). I'm a casual player. To level up, I pretty much am stuck with one of a couple different assault builds. One is a massive brawler, the other is a LRM boat.

I have other builds that are fun to play with. Tonight I even tried running a light for a while. But I pretty much never go up in ranking or get decent damage with these other builds, even when I feel like I actually contributed something to the team. Case in point: tonight I ran my fast Urbie with dual PPCs. I snuck around while stealth and nipped at the heels of some big mechs. Didn't do much damage, but some of them took the bait and were distracted. As the game progressed, I started capping the enemy base. After a while, one of their guys left the fight to come attack me. We had a fun and rather lengthy duel, and I even managed to keep us in the enemy base about half the time (so I was still capping as I fought). Eventually he won....no surprise, I basically never win duels, even in a case like this where the guy actually seemed less experienced than me. (I really felt like I had the advantage most of the fight.) But by then he was down to about 55%, and ended up being the last mech on their team. Two of my teammates were still alive. They came back and finished him off quickly. I did around 200 damage as I recall. I felt fairly pleased with myself, but my pilot rating went down, of course.

My impression is that spamming folks randomly with heavy-hitting spread weapons for big damage numbers is more effective than precise, purposeful tactics, if you're just trying to bump your rating (of course, you still have to use strategy and positioning to get yourself in the right spot to land all that damage without getting destroyed).

At this point I care zero about my rating, as it doesn't seem to correlate with my effectiveness, my usefulness to the team, or how much fun I'm having.

I don't want this to be seen as a complaint about the game. For all I know, I just don't understand the strategy or game mechanics well enough to rank up (but then again, I'm not that worried about ranking up anyway). It's worth mentioning that this is the only game that has managed to pull me back into online gaming since I mostly stopped gaming 13+ years ago.

Matt

Edited by Maj Destruction, 23 July 2022 - 12:11 AM.

[martian]

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

Sorta new guy here (started last fall). I'm a casual player. To level up, I pretty much am stuck with one of a couple different assault builds. One is a massive brawler, the other is a LRM boat.

Sometimes, Assault 'Mechs can be a bit difficult for a new player. And LRM-boats have some disadvantages too.

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

I have other builds that are fun to play with. Tonight I even tried running a light for a while. But I pretty much never go up in ranking or get decent damage with these other builds, even when I feel like I actually contributed something to the team. Case in point: tonight I ran my fast Urbie with dual PPCs.

Was it your UM-R80? What PPCs does it have?

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

I snuck around while stealth and nipped at the heels of some big mechs. Didn't do much damage, but some of them took the bait and were distracted. As the game progressed, I started capping the enemy base. After a while, one of their guys left the fight to come attack me. We had a fun and rather lengthy duel, and I even managed to keep us in the enemy base about half the time (so I was still capping as I fought).

When you are taking damage, you are not capping.

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

Eventually he won....no surprise, I basically never win duels, even in a case like this where the guy actually seemed less experienced than me. (I really felt like I had the advantage most of the fight.) But by then he was down to about 55%, and ended up being the last mech on their team. Two of my teammates were still alive. They came back and finished him off quickly. I did around 200 damage as I recall. I felt fairly pleased with myself, but my pilot rating went down, of course.

I do not want to sound nasty, but 200 damage is not especially great result.

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

My impression is that spamming folks randomly with heavy-hitting spread weapons for big damage numbers is more effective than precise, purposeful tactics, if you're just trying to bump your rating (of course, you still have to use strategy and positioning to get yourself in the right spot to land all that damage without getting destroyed).

Damage is a half of your Match Score and Match Score is crucial for your PSR movement.

Light 'Mechs pack much less weapons than assault 'Mechs and thus it is more difficult for them to achieve high MS.

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

At this point I care zero about my rating, as it doesn't seem to correlate with my effectiveness, my usefulness to the team, or how much fun I'm having.

Just play the way you like it and have fun.

Maj Destruction, on 23 July 2022 - 12:06 AM, said:

I don't want this to be seen as a complaint about the game. For all I know, I just don't understand the strategy or game mechanics well enough to rank up (but then again, I'm not that worried about ranking up anyway). It's worth mentioning that this is the only game that has managed to pull me back into online gaming since I mostly stopped gaming 13+ years ago.

Matt

The recent challenge has a Hero 'Mech as its main prize. Do not forget to claim it.

[TheCaptainJZ]

For reference, a rough "average" match score is about 250 or so regardless of whether your PSR went up or down. Keep that in mind to see if you did especially good or bad in any given match.
~45% of your MS is based on your damage. The other 55% is based on other performance stats. I don't have the list handy, but they're the other things on the end-round match screen and that pop up mid-match as you earn them. Other than kills, solo kills, or kill most damage done (KMDD), the next most valuable is Savior kills. For this, you have to be attacking an enemy who is attacking one of your friendlies with low health, then the enemy is killed (by you or someone else). Basically, the way to do this is just to stay with your team and they'll come naturally as you'll all be fighting together. This leads into why your PSR went down when you were fighting over the base--you probably only shot 1 or 2 enemies. There's an opportunity to shoot 12 mechs each round for an assist. You only have to scrape them to earn an assist. Don't go out of your way to do this, just keep it in mind. 1 assist doesn't contribute much. There is also a bonus for staying with your lance or being in the vicinity of a friendly heavy or assault as a light or medium mech. Again, one of these is not very important, but the score is based on some of these other metrics. Capping a base is not actually very rewarding, sadly.

There are limits to how good a PSR or Match Score system can be. You might "save the day" but not be rewarded for it because there's not a good way to quantify all the things that go into a win. You'll just have to mentally reward yourself in those instances.

Regardless of the metrics, the most important thing is, "Are you having fun?" Winning is fun, but try to find fun in loses too. I played a match today where I basically solo'd an Annihilator in a Jenner. He was backing up and tried turning left and right but I'm so much more maneuverable, I could keep shooting his back. If he had any backup from his team it wouldn't have worked. It was only one of two kills that match so we lost pretty badly, but I took out an Assault in a bad light so I felt proud.

Going back to damage, it's been debated here how important damage is because there's not a direct correlation between damage to a mech and lethality. Each mech has different amounts of armor and structure and what locations you hit for the kill shot can be different too. But I would consider 200 damage on the low side with any mech, even a locust. You should be able to do 250 or more in a match, so long as you are not running all over capping or die earlier. The longer you can stay alive, the more damage you will do, naturally. Equally important is good positioning and being in optimum range of you weapons.