45 replies to this topic

[Reverend Flashback]

I've been thinking about mechs I almost never see in game and why.
So I decided to make a "little" list (it actually became pretty long...) and some very simplified assumptions to discuss this topic.
I mean, those are just personal obervations so they are not 100% correct.

Lights:

Osiris -- Really rare. No idea why. Seems like a nice skirmisher.
Spider -- Those are ****. Quirks did not help much imo. Very rare for a reason.
Panther -- Not really good. Hardpoint starved.
Cougar -- I love mine, but almost never see another.

Mediums:

Ice Ferret -- 9 tons for weapons is most likely the reason.
Stormcrow -- Maybe the low arm hardpoints are not popular?
Kintaro -- Medium srm brawling seems kinda meh in current meta.
Vindicator -- Little build variety. Mrm 40 or ppc stuff and call it a day.
Wolverine -- Too frail. Don't see those despite being on sale right now.

Heavies:

Grasshopper -- Maybe overshadowed by the other laservom comeptition.
Warhammer -- Too big. Too frail.
Quickdraw -- ?
Nova Cat -- Arms again? Seems actually pretty nice for some builds.
Orion IIC -- Probably rarest heavy to see. No clue why. Definitely need one of those

Assaults:

Charger -- That 1A1 is easily the worst assault I've ever bought...
Hatamoto Chi -- Except for the hero they all seem mediocre.
Highlander -- Meh hitboxes. Little bit of everything hardpoints.
Highlander IIC -- Same hardpoints as IS version, but clan weapons should save the day.
Victor -- Too big. Little bit of everything again. Not as rare as those other assaults here.
Warhawk -- Seems decent nowadays but has kinda low tonnage for weapons.
Gargoyle -- Too much tonnage wasted on engine.
Zeus -- This is probably the rarest mech in the whole game. Like really. When have you last seen a Zeus?

Top 3 rarest mechs in my experience:
Highlander IIC
Zeus
Warhawk

What do you think about this list, what the least used mechs in this game are, and which issues they have?

[ScrapIron Prime]

The Uziel was on that list until they gave out a free one. it will be on there again. it's large and its hit boxes SUUUUUCK.

I'd put the Trebuchet on there as well. I've seen maybe one in the last 3 months?

I actually run my Highlander 733P and my Warhammer 7S quite often, surprised they made your list.

[pattonesque]

Wolverines are incredible. try these bad boys:

https://mwo.nav-alph...=796ccb9_WVR-7K
https://mwo.nav-alph...73b90ab6_WVR-7D
https://mwo.nav-alph...e04ae544_WVR-6K

[w0qj]

Yeah, I'm kindda surprised that the Warhawk is still so rare, even after MWO/Cauldron quirk pass, and considering that WHK-Prime(I) sits on the very pinnacle of the massive Clan I mech pack... perhaps an additional -5% Heat Gen would help...

Surprised about Warhammer in that list...
WHM-7S: as others have said, +40% weapons velocity makes instant-hit weapons out of anything!
WHM-6R: strip out arms (little/no armor, no weapons), and have BIG engine, and stuff all weapons into LT/RT, watch it zoooom!

Some mechs in above list have bad hitboxes...
and other mechs simply have been overtaken by weapons hardpoint inflation... eg... cough... Piranha with 15x weapon hardpoints(!)

Edited by w0qj, 03 May 2022 - 05:26 PM.

[YueFei]

pattonesque, on 03 May 2022 - 04:57 PM, said:

Wolverines are incredible. try these bad boys:

https://mwo.nav-alph...=796ccb9_WVR-7K
https://mwo.nav-alph...73b90ab6_WVR-7D
https://mwo.nav-alph...e04ae544_WVR-6K

Yeah, Wolverines aren't fragile, they just aren't "passively" durable. They're very tough if maneuvering actively and defensively. That's really the key. If you don't move, you'll get dunked on.

And by "move", I mean you have to be accelerating / changing direction / twisting. Not just going in a straight line. I still remember that one time when I was running towards cover and I just stared like an idiot at a laser vomit Timby, continuing on course towards cover but never changing direction or stutter-stepping or JJ-pumping. I figured "hey I'm on the run" so I'd be fine. He must've been laughing as he tracked all his laser damage into my left torso. Opened it in one volley. I spent the rest of the match trying to hide that hurt shoulder.

Edited by YueFei, 03 May 2022 - 05:26 PM.

[KaptinOrk]

I've added some of my thoughts to this list:

Lights:

Osiris -- Really rare. No idea why. Seems like a nice skirmisher. --- It has a wide design and large legs making it easier to hit than other lights.
Spider -- Those are ****. Quirks did not help much imo. Very rare for a reason. --- Hardpoint starved, I rarely see anything but the 5V for the troll capture accelerator.
Panther -- Not really good. Hardpoint starved. --- Too big and clumsy for their weight, easy to disarm. These need Urbie level durability quirks and a little more agility, IMO. It's a shame that they're not good, I think it's one of the better models in the game.
Cougar -- I love mine, but almost never see another. --- Nice firepower for a light, but it means they draw way too much aggro as a result. Also slow and wide

Mediums:

Ice Ferret -- 9 tons for weapons is most likely the reason. --- It's also ugly as homemade sin.
Stormcrow -- Maybe the low arm hardpoints are not popular? --- The Vapor Eagle and to a lesser extent, the Huntsman, exist.
Kintaro -- Medium srm brawling seems kinda meh in current meta. --- Hardpoints spread across the entire model and low, wide arms.
Vindicator -- Little build variety. Mrm 40 or ppc stuff and call it a day. --- The MRM build is great, but that's it, it doesn't have the hardpoints to be worth it.
Wolverine -- Too frail. Don't see those despite being on sale right now. --- I think people simply prefer the shoulder mounts on the Shadowhawk and Griffin, depending on the build. I also think it needs some durability quirks.

Heavies:

Grasshopper -- Maybe overshadowed by the other laservom comeptition. --- I agree on this, it's a middling flashbulb in a game full of them.
Warhammer -- Too big. Too frail. --- Low, wide arms kill the chassis, IMO.
Quickdraw -- ? --- As a massive QKD fan, they're just not great, even the IV-Four is kinda mediocre now. They have no significant build variety, they're oversized for their tonnage and their hardpoints kinda suck. I'm having a blast in my QKD-4G, but it's a labor of love for me.
Nova Cat -- Arms again? Seems actually pretty nice for some builds. --- Yeah, arms are low and wide. I see them around in sniper roles from time to time, but that's it.
Orion IIC -- Probably rarest heavy to see. No clue why. Definitely need one of those --- Orions, IS and Clan, have some of the lowest main weapon hardpoints in the game. They also tend to be brawly, which isn't great right now.

Assaults:

Charger -- That 1A1 is easily the worst assault I've ever bought... --- Hardpoints are all over the place, but holy f*** the small laser build is hilarious. Better with melee.
Hatamoto Chi -- Except for the hero they all seem mediocre. --- Agreed, they look great if you're into the samurai totem 'mech thing, but they're otherwise forgettable.
Highlander -- Meh hitboxes. Little bit of everything hardpoints. --- They're just so boxy/chonky and their hardpoints are all over the place.
Highlander IIC -- Same hardpoints as IS version, but clan weapons should save the day. --- Them knees
Victor -- Too big. Little bit of everything again. Not as rare as those other assaults here. --- I want the Victor to be the agile assault, but they're so wide and the arms are so low.
Warhawk -- Seems decent nowadays but has kinda low tonnage for weapons. --- Could've had a Direwolf.
Gargoyle -- Too much tonnage wasted on engine. --- There are some fun, fast meme builds, but they're just under weaponized for a clan assault.
Zeus -- This is probably the rarest mech in the whole game. Like really. When have you last seen a Zeus? --- I can count on one hand the number of Zeus' I have seen. Their hardpoints are universally low and/or arm mounted. The Skokomish seems fun for a speedy meme build, but that's it.

Most of the issues with these 'mechs can be summed up as: the model's geometry just doesn't work well in a PvP FPS game. There's a reason why high, torso mounted hardpoints are so desirable, they simply work better.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Rare mechs?
Adder, Incubus, Jenner, Jenner IIC to a lesser extent, Osiris, Panther most of the time

Ice Ferret--honestly, it's ugly and the hardpoints suck--Stormcrow sometimes which is odd because they used to be top tier, Viper, Assassin is uncommon, Dervish, Enforcer, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk isn't common, Trebuchet, Vindicator

Hellfire?, Cataphract, Champion, Dragon, Jagermech is not common anymore, Orion, Thunderbolt

Awesome--never has been, Banshee, Battlemaster, Highlander, Marauder II?, Mauler, Victor, Zeus.

When it comes to assaults, it's mostly Clan dominated. The other weight classes see more of a mix between IS and Clan.

[foamyesque]

I see quite a few Nova Cats out there -- specifically, the LRM ones. Lotta people out there running LRM90 boomtubers.

The 1A1 is a struggle, but I've found some success in it by ignoring the meme stuff. Put a (much) smaller engine in it, light or standard over XL, and use the saved tonnage to frontload and uprange your damage output by putting in some big guns, like ERPPCs. They'll give you an option to poke from range so you're not handcuffed in the suppression game, give you front-loaded damage so that you can nail people trying to pop in and out, give you pinpoint damage which really helps against lights and fast mediums, and turn off ECM. And you still have five small lasers or ERSLs to back that up for some perfectly fine sustained DPS.

Plus, going slower means, at least for me, that I'm less likely to run myself straight into enemy guns before anybody else is even visible :v

EDIT:
I also see quite a few Marauder IIs out there. The 4L's a really solid sniper platform and there's a fair few people rocking SRM 4HPs as well.

I saw a boatload of Vipers when the loyalty mech dropped last year and I suspect I'll see a lot more after May's event is done and *everybody* has one.

Edited by foamyesque, 03 May 2022 - 07:11 PM.

[ThreeStooges]

KaptinOrk, on 03 May 2022 - 06:51 PM, said:

I've added some of my thoughts to this list:

Lights:

Osiris -- Really rare. No idea why. Seems like a nice skirmisher. --- It has a wide design and large legs making it easier to hit than other lights.

Spider -- Those are ****. Quirks did not help much imo. Very rare for a reason. --- Hardpoint starved, I rarely see anything but the 5V for the troll capture accelerator.

Panther -- Not really good. Hardpoint starved. --- Too big and clumsy for their weight, easy to disarm. These need Urbie level durability quirks and a little more agility, IMO. It's a shame that they're not good, I think it's one of the better models in the game.

Cougar -- I love mine, but almost never see another. --- Nice firepower for a light, but it means they draw way too much aggro as a result. Also slow and wide
pretty nice for some builds. --- Yeah, arms are low and wide. I see them around in sniper roles from time to time, but that's it.


Most of the issues with these 'mechs can be summed up as: the model's geometry just doesn't work well in a PvP FPS game. There's a reason why high, torso mounted hardpoints are so desirable, they simply work better.

Osiris- I love mine. It plays like a locust except it has jump jets. Skemet/Bast is the one to get.
Spiders-Trash. I have the one with max jump jets. Only good for derping around. Nonexistant weapon hard points.
Panther-The second BEST LIGHT TANK the is have. Max the armor and don't play it as a sniper. Only urbie beats it out on armor. Katana Kat is worth it as it doesn't suffer the 90% weapon (dis) arm the others have.

Cougar-Same thing as an Adder except 10kph slower. Get the adder as it does everything the cou can but goes slightly faster.

Jenners of both fractions are ones I hardly see. Has suffered ever since it was the only light mech from the ct-on-legs the geomotry of it makes it. You might see the all missile one with srms but the rest are mia. Not even worth getting any of the others.

[pattonesque]

Panther is also good with LPPCs. So is that one Spider. They play differently but can both use the weapon effectively

Warhammer is excellent too, especially the ERPPC/LGauss sniper

[ScrapIron Prime]

w0qj, on 03 May 2022 - 05:25 PM, said:

and other mechs simply have been overtaken by weapons hardpoint inflation... eg... cough... Piranha with 15x weapon hardpoints(!)

Right? Why take a Commando (which is a fine mech and bugger hard to hit) when you can take a Piranha and do WAY more damage?

[pattonesque]

ScrapIron Prime, on 03 May 2022 - 07:28 PM, said:

Right? Why take a Commando (which is a fine mech and bugger hard to hit) when you can take a Piranha and do WAY more damage?

Commando is way, way tankier. they kinda serve different roles

[Bud Crue]

Variants I see/notice the least (notice as being absent, along the lines of :hey, that guy is in X, when's the last time you guys saw one of those?):

Locust 1M (i don't recall ever seeing one in game)
Jenner K or D
Panther 10P
Most Incubus
All Trebs
Most Kintaros
All Enforcers other than the Ghillie
I don't know the last time I saw a Griffin
Dervishes other than the Frenzy or 6MR
I see an Ice Ferret about once a week, but that's it.
I can't recall the last time I saw a Nova in game.
Since the IV-4 was nerfed I rarely see those, and anything other than 2HPPC builds on the non-heros; frankly, I don't recall any.
Hellfires are always notable when you see them, because they are so rarely seen.
Plenty of new variant Summoners but the rest may as well not exist.
I haven't see a Victor hero in game or most Zeuses (other than in my group of drop mates on ****** mech Wednesdays) in years.
Highlanders are pretty rare, so too Executioners and Gargoyles running anything other than laser vomit.
I saw a guy in a Lucky Number 7 two days ago and that was noteworthy as well, since I had never seen one (other than, once again, in my group for ****** mech Wednesday) since the Charger was introduced.
Marauder IICs; all of them. They just disappeared in the last couple of years.

[Saved By The Bell]

Was running in Vindicator for first time.
Really tanky for 45t.

Commander Varus mech.

[Xetelian]

Trying the COU (P) for event, all I can say is with 2 cERPPC and DHS + ECM I have died from being cored out the back of my shoulders from the freakin FRONT too many times now.

What exactly is wrong with the hitboxes that my little light is getting instagibbed or half my mech disappears in one partial burn in an instant.

[caravann]

Adder is the rarest.

It's been hiding under a rock.

[Reverend Flashback]

ScrapIron Prime, on 03 May 2022 - 04:44 PM, said:

The Uziel was on that list until they gave out a free one. it will be on there again. it's large and its hit boxes SUUUUUCK.

I'd put the Trebuchet on there as well. I've seen maybe one in the last 3 months?

I actually run my Highlander 733P and my Warhammer 7S quite often, surprised they made your list.

I agree on the Uziel. It will disappear soon again.

And I'm surprised about you being surprised about the Highlander.
I never see Highlanders.
"There can be only one.", and it's probably yours

TheCaptainJZ, on 03 May 2022 - 07:08 PM, said:

Rare mechs?
Adder, Incubus, Jenner, Jenner IIC to a lesser extent, Osiris, Panther most of the time

Ice Ferret--honestly, it's ugly and the hardpoints suck--Stormcrow sometimes which is odd because they used to be top tier, Viper, Assassin is uncommon, Dervish, Enforcer, Griffin, Kintaro, Shadowhawk isn't common, Trebuchet, Vindicator

Hellfire?, Cataphract, Champion, Dragon, Jagermech is not common anymore, Orion, Thunderbolt

Awesome--never has been, Banshee, Battlemaster, Highlander, Marauder II?, Mauler, Victor, Zeus.

When it comes to assaults, it's mostly Clan dominated. The other weight classes see more of a mix between IS and Clan.

I had most of those on my list but decided to cut them out because stuff got already quite long.
The only things I would not agree with are Assassins (I see them quite a bit) and Awesomes.
Awesomes aren't terribly common like the more popular mechs, but they ain't exactly rare either. (Your experience might be different, won't argue about that.)

Why the Incubus is rare, is a big ******* mystery to me.
That thing packs a ridiculous ammount of firepower in in it's weight class while still being able to run at the speed of light.

Xetelian, on 03 May 2022 - 10:59 PM, said:

Trying the COU (P) for event, all I can say is with 2 cERPPC and DHS + ECM I have died from being cored out the back of my shoulders from the freakin FRONT too many times now.

What exactly is wrong with the hitboxes that my little light is getting instagibbed or half my mech disappears in one partial burn in an instant.

I don't have this issue to be honest.
My Cougar is pretty tanky and usually does not go down before taking around 400 dmg, which is pretty huge for a light.
Maybe try a laservom build?
2xHeavyLrg; 4xErMed; Ecm -- works great.
Since I'm using that build, I had quite a few 800 dmg plus multiple kill matches.
Everything else did not work nearly as good for me.

[w0qj]

For COU-H(P), try 2xHLL + 4xERML (or 4xHML), ECM, and DHS filled to its gills
It can Alpha with heat just under 100%.

Stay behind Assaults, cover them with your ECM, and shoot what they shoots!
Lots of DHS helps you to wait+cool. Double Coolshot when under enemy's unwelcome attention!

Xetelian, on 03 May 2022 - 10:59 PM, said:

Trying the COU (P) for event, all I can say is with 2 cERPPC and DHS + ECM I have died from being cored out the back of my shoulders from the freakin FRONT too many times now.

What exactly is wrong with the hitboxes that my little light is getting instagibbed or half my mech disappears in one partial burn in an instant.

[Weeny Machine]

Know a few more:

The Huginn - the unicorn on the battlefield. I cannot remember when I saw one in active play. Give it back its very old 40% SRM4 quirks and remove the useless MG quirks and the mech would be playable again.

Jenner IIC - I hardly see those either. Well, huge for a 35t mech and for that relatively fragile with sometimes weird weapon quirks - dunno what the Cauldron thought here

Trebuchet J - similar rare as the Huginn...good laser quirks but hardpoints at balls height so you need jump jets to fire them even over small rocks. The problem: jump jet thrust sucks on this mech (lol) and on top of that: bad hitboxes. But hey, those minor structure quirks will save it...not.

Grid Iron - like the Huginn, give its original Gauss quirks back

Edited by Weeny Machine, 04 May 2022 - 05:34 AM.

[Curccu]

Reverend Flashback, on 03 May 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

I've been thinking about mechs I almost never see in game and why.
So I decided to make a "little" list (it actually became pretty long...) and some very simplified assumptions to discuss this topic.
I mean, those are just personal obervations so they are not 100% correct.

Lights:

Osiris -- Really rare. No idea why. Seems like a nice skirmisher.
Spider -- Those are ****. Quirks did not help much imo. Very rare for a reason.
Panther -- Not really good. Hardpoint starved.
Cougar -- I love mine, but almost never see another.

Katanakats with LPPCs are pretty common, others on this list are pretty rare.

Reverend Flashback, on 03 May 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

Mediums:
Ice Ferret -- 9 tons for weapons is most likely the reason.
Stormcrow -- Maybe the low arm hardpoints are not popular?
Kintaro -- Medium srm brawling seems kinda meh in current meta.
Vindicator -- Little build variety. Mrm 40 or ppc stuff and call it a day.
Wolverine -- Too frail. Don't see those despite being on sale right now.

Crow is good mech... nothing to do with low? arm.... only Vapor, HBK, HMN are better at most stuffs.

Reverend Flashback, on 03 May 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

Heavies:
Grasshopper -- Maybe overshadowed by the other laservom comeptition.
Warhammer -- Too big. Too frail.
Quickdraw -- ?
Nova Cat -- Arms again? Seems actually pretty nice for some builds.
Orion IIC -- Probably rarest heavy to see. No clue why. Definitely need one of those

Whaat Whammies and Hopper are the best IS heavies and very common.

Assaults:

Reverend Flashback, on 03 May 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

Charger -- That 1A1 is easily the worst assault I've ever bought...
Hatamoto Chi -- Except for the hero they all seem mediocre.
Highlander -- Meh hitboxes. Little bit of everything hardpoints.
Highlander IIC -- Same hardpoints as IS version, but clan weapons should save the day.
Victor -- Too big. Little bit of everything again. Not as rare as those other assaults here.
Warhawk -- Seems decent nowadays but has kinda low tonnage for weapons.
Gargoyle -- Too much tonnage wasted on engine.
Zeus -- This is probably the rarest mech in the whole game. Like really. When have you last seen a Zeus?

Victor has multiple good builds, I play them now and then at least.
Highlander IIC-A with Quad C-ERPPC isn't bad either.

Reverend Flashback, on 03 May 2022 - 04:39 PM, said:

Top 3 rarest mechs in my experience:
Highlander IIC
Zeus
Warhawk

What do you think about this list, what the least used mechs in this game are, and which issues they have?

Osiris, Vindicator, Dervish, Champion and Hatamoto are pretty rare encounters.

Edited by Curccu, 04 May 2022 - 04:52 AM.