82 replies to this topic

[BROARL]

[if you do not know me please be aware i am a baked potato and not an elitist]
suggestions that may require effort;
1) allow people to spend real money to withdraw Cbills from unit accounts?
these microtransactions could make money for PGI and encourage players to join veteran units.
2) allow us to fight for planets again?
in the past this added a measure of incentive to win, whereas at present most of (the people i know) just play to fight other vets with less nascar. there need not be MC rewards as unit tags on planets is motivation enough for many.
3) make faction rewards reasonable?
at present, Cbills aside, we often collect more rewards in an hour of quickplay than we do in a year of faction.
4) sell mech packs that are also conveniently suitable as dropdecks?
include a dropdeck as well as the mech bays that come with the mechs, and perhaps throw in a skin or something like the resistance and (whatever the clan version was) came with.
5) put Tukayyid battle in event queue for a weekend?
how bad can it be? throw in long tom too, it can't be any more ridiculous than flying urbies for hours on end...

things that should require no effort;
1) do not allow Francois anywhere near any of the faction maps.
2) do not allow Francois ANYWHERE near any faction maps.
(sorry Francois you seem like a decent guy but just don't, ffs don't).
3) make the warning that more or less says 'faction is not for people with few mechs or minimal experience' a little more prominent?

i am all for new people in faction. if you have enough interest in faction play to be reading this thread then feel encouraged to find yourself a unit, i can assure you there are a few who would recruit you (no matter who you are) and even simple teamwork is far superior to none at all.
when i see someone new trying to make any kind of genuine effort i reach out to them if i can, and i KNOW i am not alone in doing so, but if stomping was fun everyone would just be playing mech5 or something instead of waiting for hours in queue.
[i am aware some (many) players have smurf alts and enjoy farming lower tiers in qp but please don't think those bullies are the majority.]

perhaps, after all and despite my personal tastes, perhaps there could afford to be a metric? (don't ask me what it should be)
seeing people try faction once and end up bitter about it for years isn't healthy and probably doesn't shorten queue times.

[katoult]

BROARL, on 08 June 2022 - 06:05 AM, said:

1) allow people to spend real money to withdraw Cbills from unit accounts?
these microtransactions could make money for PGI and encourage players to join veteran units.

It would also allow people to fairly easily migrate CBills between accounts (through strawman units), which is a big no-no to PGI.

[Sjorpha]

I suggest a very baseline restriction: You have to finish your cadet matches and you can't put trial mechs in your drop decks.

On top of that make the disclaimer popup a little more intrusive and add an extra step for people in tier 4 and 5, something like "Are you sure? Faction play can be demanding, you may want to reach tier 3 or higher before joining." and then you can click "Yes, I welcome the challenge!" or "No, I'll join later" or something like that. Might at least reduce the complaining and prevent people from accidentally getting in over their heads.

I don't think there you be hard skill based restrictions, there may be people who are legitimately unable to get good (disabilities, age etc.) and they should still be able to play as long as they don't complain about being outmatched.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Sjorpha, on 13 June 2022 - 07:38 AM, said:

I suggest a very baseline restriction: You have to finish your cadet matches and you can't put trial mechs in your drop decks.

On top of that make the disclaimer popup a little more intrusive and add an extra step for people in tier 4 and 5, something like "Are you sure? Faction play can be demanding, you may want to reach tier 3 or higher before joining." and then you can click "Yes, I welcome the challenge!" or "No, I'll join later" or something like that. Might at least reduce the complaining and prevent people from accidentally getting in over their heads.

I don't think there you be hard skill based restrictions, there may be people who are legitimately unable to get good (disabilities, age etc.) and they should still be able to play as long as they don't complain about being outmatched.

Could make it “Yes, I welcome the challenge” or “No, I would only complain on the forums after getting stomped” ….,,lol

[stress doG]

FP is the same like 60 players in rotation I started playing in my trial mechs and wouldn't be playing the game if I wasn't allowed in FP and I am sure many in FP are the same

[B0oN]

I still see the good old same ole discussion about wether FP should be having a gate of some kind or not ...

To reiterate what I proposed a looooong, loooong time ago :
YES, make a hard gate, let it be 500 games in QP (easily manageable, gives you some insight into how MWO plays, gets you some CBills if youre not being a complete smombie and should be a fairly sufficient timeframe to have a FP-ready dropdeck that doesnt get instantly annihilated once you show face to the enemy in FP) or make a softer gate with having to play at least your 25 cadet matches or tie it to the ability of fielding at least one dropdeck or maybe even make a special test in the testing grounds that simulates a FP match-like situation.

That last proposition will be really hard though since ... reasons .

Anyway ... this debate is as old as is FW and never bore any fruits whatsoever, mainly due to the folly of an endgame gamemode that still tries to be inclusive to everyone, whereas a harder or softer gating of any reasonable kind would pose more of an incentive and might even save players from butthurt after getting their shiny mechs handed in pieces back to them in less than 10 seconds, because players couldn´t even be asked to learn to swim before heading into the pool with the sharks and piranhas .

All in all said : I´m quite sad looking at this, because it means that PGI still didnt make good on any of the promises made to the FP playerbase, which is still treated like a naughty stepchild despite having a considerable portion of active whales and former whales, not to mention the enormous playing times many of the FP playerbase sunk into this game .
Sad to see such steadfast loyalty being wasted like that .

*sniffles, before firing all 4 ERPPCs and provoking a reactor meltdown*

[LordNothing]

i think it already has a gate. it keeps most players out on its own.

Edited by LordNothing, 25 June 2022 - 04:44 PM.

[sosegado]

LordNothing, on 25 June 2022 - 04:43 PM, said:

i think it already has a gate. it keeps most players out on its own.

+1

I've been playing MWO for over a decade and in that time I've tried Faction play just a few times.

Every single time I did I felt like an unwelcome burden to the teams I've dropped with.

The general attitude I've seen from the FP community is that they really don't want new players.

Congratulations on getting your wish.

Edited by Stab Wound, 25 June 2022 - 08:16 PM.

[vonJerg]

Math is simple, and the math does not lie. From a few recent end screen shots, it takes around 16.4k dmg to bring down all 48 clan mechs, 10-15% more on opposite side. So your IS drop deck needs to be able to get 1366 dmg consistently, twice that number if you use streaks or lrms. If you can not bring that kind of performance to FP someone else will have to gulp up your share of enemy health pool.

[ccrider]

Honestly, for all the talk of "elitist FP players don't want new people" you are FAR more likely to get some douchebag on your team in QP raging about how "I'm always stuck on **** teams" or "uninstall loser, you don't know how to play/build your mech/communicate/not communicate/etc". Just be honest and say "I prefer a mode where I don't care about what others are doing cause I'm the hero of this 8 minute fight" and stop assuming that those of us who like FP are some sorta boogeyman making you pee the bed cause we hate new people. FFS, nearly everyone who plays FP will answer or explain anything in the mode to newer players.

[IronWolfPack64]

Stab Wound, on 25 June 2022 - 08:06 PM, said:

+1

I've been playing MWO for over a decade and in that time I've tried Faction play just a few times.

Every single time I did I felt like an unwelcome burden to the teams I've dropped with.

The general attitude I've seen from the FP community is that they really don't want new players.

Congratulations on getting your wish.

I am really sorry to hear that but I do understand. Faction play is a hard mode to get into on your own. But that can be fixed if you find some people to play with. If you ever start thinking about giving faction play another shot. Hop in our server we would love to play with you and show you what real faction play is all about. https://discord.gg/2h2VcVSr

[sosegado]

ccrider, on 26 June 2022 - 02:18 PM, said:

Honestly, for all the talk of "elitist FP players don't want new people" you are FAR more likely to get some douchebag on your team in QP raging about how "I'm always stuck on **** teams" or "uninstall loser, you don't know how to play/build your mech/communicate/not communicate/etc". Just be honest and say "I prefer a mode where I don't care about what others are doing cause I'm the hero of this 8 minute fight" and stop assuming that those of us who like FP are some sorta boogeyman making you pee the bed cause we hate new people. FFS, nearly everyone who plays FP will answer or explain anything in the mode to newer players.

Sure those types of people are in QP I see them all the time.

I'm not even joking when I tell you that the majority of QP assumes that those jack@sses are pilots from FP that came to QP to tell everyone how much better they are then the QP newbs.

Faction Play has a real bad reputation and it didn't start in QP.
Maybe you should reflect on that?

IronWolfPack64, on 27 June 2022 - 06:01 AM, said:

I am really sorry to hear that but I do understand. Faction play is a hard mode to get into on your own. But that can be fixed if you find some people to play with. If you ever start thinking about giving faction play another shot. Hop in our server we would love to play with you and show you what real faction play is all about. https://discord.gg/2h2VcVSr

I might take you up on that.

I appreciate the olive branch.

Maybe too many of you are angry about Faction Plays bad reputation to realize that your anger is showing through in how you post to people and it is literally perpetuating your (un)earned(?) stereotype.

How about you declare TRUCE amongst the factions for a month and welcome ALL comers to Faction Play?
Set aside your W/L goals for a month and don't just send annoying popups begging for reinforcements but ACTUALLY MEAN IT when you request it!

Make July the month you repair Faction Plays reputation and SHOW people why they should play it!

Prove to the rest of the community that you aren't the boogeyman!

Will you? Can you?

Edited by Stab Wound, 27 June 2022 - 10:55 AM.

[Nightbird]

Stab Wound, on 27 June 2022 - 10:32 AM, said:

How about you declare TRUCE amongst the factions for a month and welcome ALL comers to Faction Play?
Set aside your W/L goals for a month and don't just send annoying popups begging for reinforcements but ACTUALLY MEAN IT when you request it!

Make July the month you repair Faction Plays reputation and SHOW people why they should play it!

Prove to the rest of the community that you aren't the boogeyman!

Will you? Can you?

All multiplayer games have a learning curve, it's the first time I've heard it called the boogeyman though!

[sosegado]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2022 - 11:02 AM, said:

All multiplayer games have a learning curve, it's the first time I've heard it called the boogeyman though!

I blame ccrider he said it first!

[IronWolfPack64]

Stab Wound, on 27 June 2022 - 10:32 AM, said:

Sure those types of people are in QP I see them all the time.

I'm not even joking when I tell you that the majority of QP assumes that those jack@sses are pilots from FP that came to QP to tell everyone how much better they are then the QP newbs.

Faction Play has a real bad reputation and it didn't start in QP.
Maybe you should reflect on that?



I might take you up on that.

I appreciate the olive branch.

Maybe too many of you are angry about Faction Plays bad reputation to realize that your anger is showing through in how you post to people and it is literally perpetuating your (un)earned(?) stereotype.

How about you declare TRUCE amongst the factions for a month and welcome ALL comers to Faction Play?
Set aside your W/L goals for a month and don't just send annoying popups begging for reinforcements but ACTUALLY MEAN IT when you request it!

Make July the month you repair Faction Plays reputation and SHOW people why they should play it!

Prove to the rest of the community that you aren't the boogeyman!

Will you? Can you?

I will say the urgent calls to arms is a Automated PGI thing. However about a lot of the other things you are saying I generally agree about the attitude of those who play faction play. If you would like to discuss such things further please hop on in and shoot me A DM. I would love to get a chance to hear what you have to say in more detail.

[ccrider]

Stab Wound, on 27 June 2022 - 10:32 AM, said:

Sure those types of people are in QP I see them all the time.

I'm not even joking when I tell you that the majority of QP assumes that those jack@sses are pilots from FP that came to QP to tell everyone how much better they are then the QP newbs.

Faction Play has a real bad reputation and it didn't start in QP.
Maybe you should reflect on that?



I might take you up on that.

I appreciate the olive branch.

Maybe too many of you are angry about Faction Plays bad reputation to realize that your anger is showing through in how you post to people and it is literally perpetuating your (un)earned(?) stereotype.

How about you declare TRUCE amongst the factions for a month and welcome ALL comers to Faction Play?
Set aside your W/L goals for a month and don't just send annoying popups begging for reinforcements but ACTUALLY MEAN IT when you request it!

Make July the month you repair Faction Plays reputation and SHOW people why they should play it!

Prove to the rest of the community that you aren't the boogeyman!

Will you? Can you?

Tell ya what, if you play NA Friday or Saturday night from like 11PM to 130AM EST, pop into our Teamspeak at rodcbr1.teamspeak3.com and ask to group with us. We brawl 100% of the time but we are more than happy to have people drop with us who prefer other play styles as anything/anyone can support a good push or receive. I don't personally use other decks but I am very capable of helping with builds and skill trees for long-range and mid-range trade decks, brawl decks, etc. Hell, just shoot me a friend request in game and I'm more than happy to chat.

That being said, here's a basic rundown of what will make FP more enjoyable even if you are 100% solo:

1. Stay with the team
2. Never reinforce
3. Listen to target calls (even if your lurming, if I'm in a match I'll call out a locked target and ask for LRM mechs to rain on it. We run small groups of 3-4 so we are used to making do with what our random team mates bring instead of complaining they didn't magically coordinate their decks with our builds through ESP)
4. Use your mic or text and communicate. Almost everyone will answer questions about the mode or builds or what-not if you are proactive about learning
5. The most important part; Enjoy the fact that most FP matches play out in a way that is vastly different to a standard QP match. Different maps, wildly different strategies depending on what units are on your side or the Opfor and the ability to tailor your deck to your playstyle are just some of the reasons to play the mode.

Anyhoo, there's my olive branch.


boogeyman.

Edited by ccrider, 28 June 2022 - 11:06 AM.

[sosegado]

ccrider, on 27 June 2022 - 12:20 PM, said:

Tell ya what, if you play NA Friday or Saturday night from like 11PM to 130PM EST, pop into our Teamspeak at rodcbr1.teamspeak3.com and ask to group with us. We brawl 100% of the time but we are more than happy to have people drop with us who prefer other play styles as anything/anyone can support a good push or receive. I don't personally use other decks but I am very capable of helping with builds and skill trees for long-range and mid-range trade decks, brawl decks, etc. Hell, just shoot me a friend request in game and I'm more than happy to chat.

That being said, here's a basic rundown of what will make FP more enjoyable even if you are 100% solo:

1. Stay with the team
2. Never reinforce
3. Listen to target calls (even if your lurming, if I'm in a match I'll call out a locked target and ask for LRM mechs to rain on it. We run small groups of 3-4 so we are used to making do with what our random team mates bring instead of complaining they didn't magically coordinate their decks with our builds through ESP)
4. Use your mic or text and communicate. Almost everyone will answer questions about the mode or builds or what-not if you are proactive about learning
5. The most important part; Enjoy the fact that most FP matches play out in a way that is vastly different to a standard QP match. Different maps, wildly different strategies depending on what units are on your side or the Opfor and the ability to tailor your deck to your playstyle are just some of the reasons to play the mode.

Anyhoo, there's my olive branch.


boogeyman.

Great advice!

Olive branch accepted.


But try this on for size..and I'm talking to everyone here that's interested in fixing Faction Play and it's reputation.
Keep in mind that I'm outside looking in but FP success is as important to me as any part of MWO success, because it means I get to keep playing.

Whenever you have some pilots that clearly strayed into a situation they couldn't handle.
The answer isn't to shake your fist and demand that PGI stop pilots from sh1tting in your sandbox.

Try messaging them, say something like..

"Hey I noticed that you dropped into FP and got clapped. Bummer for you and for us. But I think it's great that you showed interest. Me and the rest of FP are looking forward to pointing you towards all the resources you'll need to get where you should be to make sure that doesn't happen again. QP is great to train but when you're ready to get off the porch and run with the Big Dogs seek out any of the FP members we're always ready to help!" <end>

I really was serious about the Factions calling a 1 month truce.
Maybe you can get PGI to make an event out it of filled with all kinds of recruitment incentives.

If there's something too precious to let go of like your W/L ratio or FP money that you make that month then maybe you can get PGI to copy/paste the stats from the month before it starts over the month you spend in recruitment event?

The Map goes back to exactly where it was the month before the recruitment event when it's all over. No harm, no foul.

cya on the battlefield.

[ccrider]

Stab Wound, on 27 June 2022 - 02:32 PM, said:

Great advice!

Olive branch accepted.


But try this on for size..and I'm talking to everyone here that's interested in fixing Faction Play and it's reputation.
Keep in mind that I'm outside looking in but FP success is as important to me as any part of MWO success, because it means I get to keep playing.

Whenever you have some pilots that clearly strayed into a situation they couldn't handle.
The answer isn't to shake your fist and demand that PGI stop pilots from sh1tting in your sandbox.

Try messaging them, say something like..

&quot;Hey I noticed that you dropped into FP and got clapped. Bummer for you and for us. But I think it's great that you showed interest. Me and the rest of FP are looking forward to pointing you towards all the resources you'll need to get where you should be to make sure that doesn't happen again. QP is great to train but when you're ready to get off the porch and run with the Big Dogs seek out any of the FP members we're always ready to help!&quot; &lt;end&gt;

I really was serious about the Factions calling a 1 month truce.
Maybe you can get PGI to make an event out it of filled with all kinds of recruitment incentives.

If there's something too precious to let go of like your W/L ratio or FP money that you make that month then maybe you can get PGI to copy/paste the stats from the month before it starts over the month you spend in recruitment event?

The Map goes back to exactly where it was the month before the recruitment event when it's all over. No harm, no foul.

cya on the battlefield.

planet taking is gone now. And most established units have been around so long that changing the w/l percentage is miniscule at best. I think some of the distaste for FP predates what's left of it. Just out of curiosity, when did you last drop in FP? What's left of us are certainly different from some of the more hardcore people who used to play. I think if you dropped now you would find that most (not all, but most) people are pretty chill and just want to get matches and shoot red boyz.

[Bowelhacker]

Only the people who complain the most bitterly about pugs in FP should be allowed to play FP.

[sosegado]

ccrider, on 27 June 2022 - 05:13 PM, said:

planet taking is gone now. And most established units have been around so long that changing the w/l percentage is miniscule at best. I think some of the distaste for FP predates what's left of it. Just out of curiosity, when did you last drop in FP? What's left of us are certainly different from some of the more hardcore people who used to play. I think if you dropped now you would find that most (not all, but most) people are pretty chill and just want to get matches and shoot red boyz.

Well I had one battle about 8 or 9 months ago and I still remember it because it was the only FP battle I’ve had in years.
It went mostly like this…
I enter the drop into River City and type: “Hi, first time dropping” responses<also typed>..”Then you don’t belong here you need to be in QP”…”No, not my first time ever playing, it’s my first time in FP in years”…no response. <Me again> “So what do you want me to do, I’m in an Arctic Cheetah?” response, “If you don’t know what you’re doing just stay out of the way and don’t shoot us in the back!”

Ok, that was gruff but clear, nothing wrong with that response.

Now I’m expecting the voip commands from lance commander<nothing> I’m also expecting voip commands from a general commander<nothing>
No further commands typed or voiped all battle so they must be on teamspeak.

5 or more minutes of long range fire where my arctic cheetah is useless soon devolves into a chaotic scrum no different then any QP scrum except that it goes on interminably long while mechs are destroyed and are replaced until our side gets the upper hand. All that’s left is chasing down stragglers. During that scrum I’m running around in my mech taking out components and legs and not shooting the team in the back like I was told not to. I never lost that mech, and I was super proud, but I soon come to realize that I played the game wrong.

In QP we value the mech we drop because it’s all we have.
In FP your mech is supposed to be treated like a consumable and shame on you for not squeezing every drop of your consumables out of your drop deck?

That’s a weird concept but, whatever.

Anyway, that amount of time felt wasted. 23 other pilots, nobody joking around nobody talking or typing.
In QP that amount of time I could spend joking around with 4 or 5 times as many pilots maybe making a friend request or 3 and generally feeling like I had accomplished something.

If that’s typical of FP and you no longer even take territory and the W/L is fairly static, then what’s the actual point if you don’t mind my asking?

And honestly the whole concept of a drop deck feels more suitable for training new pilots then just getting one in QP. Imho it feels backwards. Like FP stole the training program and gave QP the difficult job making one mech survive the entire match!

Edited by Stab Wound, 28 June 2022 - 08:24 AM.