55 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

kalashnikity, on 07 June 2022 - 10:31 AM, said:

And you buy the "C" so you have a jump jet and ecm in the CT of your 8 x dakka...

it really hits you in the ammo belt though. my uv ct went to a maximum atm build, its omnis went into 2 other builds including the good ol snoop dogg of extreme dakka.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 June 2022 - 09:27 PM.

[w0qj]

+1000000000
DWF-C (1ton ECM + 2ton JJ) is surprisingly painful; you'll end up with unacceptable compromises on builds that worked on DWF-UV. (much less ammo, less armor, or smaller weapon, etc. etc.)

==>If/when MWO introduces Hero Dire Wolf with ECM CT but without Jump Jets, I would be willing to buy multiple copies of Hero!

LordNothing, on 07 June 2022 - 09:24 PM, said:

it really hits you in the ammo belt though. my uv ct went to a maximum atm build, its omnis went into 2 other builds including the good ol snoop dogg of extreme dakka.

[LordNothing]

w0qj, on 07 June 2022 - 09:38 PM, said:

+1000000000
DWF-C (1ton ECM + 2ton JJ) is surprisingly painful; you'll end up with unacceptable compromises on builds that worked on DWF-UV. (much less ammo, less armor, or smaller weapon, etc. etc.)

==>If/when MWO introduces Hero Dire Wolf with ECM CT but without Jump Jets, I would be willing to buy multiple copies of Hero!

i mean its still a good build for quick play. it can pull its weight. but that ecm is expensive. would be nice if you could take out the jump jet. but that was likely intentional to keep the maximum dakka c from becoming too good at what it does.

[Curccu]

w0qj, on 07 June 2022 - 09:38 PM, said:

+1000000000
DWF-C (1ton ECM + 2ton JJ) is surprisingly painful; you'll end up with unacceptable compromises on builds that worked on DWF-UV. (much less ammo, less armor, or smaller weapon, etc. etc.)

==>If/when MWO introduces Hero Dire Wolf with ECM CT but without Jump Jets, I would be willing to buy multiple copies of Hero!

What kind of builds? Just curious... For some builds that 3 tons might be impossible but really hard to see getting that 1JJ and ECM not worth it.
Plenty of ammo for 8xDakka at least.

[Sjorpha]

The UV CT niche is LRM boating with the additional LRM15 you can put in it.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Sjorpha, on 08 June 2022 - 01:58 AM, said:

The UV CT niche is LRM boating with the additional LRM15 you can put in it.

don't EVER say things like that

[LordNothing]

maximum atm or nothing.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2022 - 04:03 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Sjorpha, on 08 June 2022 - 01:58 AM, said:

The UV CT niche is LRM boating with the additional LRM15 you can put in it.

I fitted my UV with quad SRM6+dual LBX20+single UAC20. Maximum brawl mech without ghost heat.

[Sjorpha]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, on 08 June 2022 - 03:47 AM, said:

don't EVER say things like that

But it's true, the 10% velocity + 7.5% heat reduction (from uv CT + prime RT) on a pure LRM boat (4LRM20+1LRM15) is in fact the one niche where the UV CT is the strongest CT (because of the additional missile hardpoint).

Edited by Sjorpha, 08 June 2022 - 04:38 AM.

[w0qj]

Dire Wolf DWF-UV (hero mech): UAC20 + 2xUAC10 + 2xUAC5 as suggested by DATA. Very short on ammo.
~Now try that with DWF-C (CT with 1ton ECM + 2ton JJ) with 3ton less ammo; not nearly enough ammo for QP.

Ditto, to a lesser extent, have trouble porting this into DWF-C also for: (hint: 20-series autocanons short on ammo)
DWF-UV: 2xLBX20 + 2xLBX10
DWF-UV: AC20 + LBX20 + 2xAC10
DWF-UV: 2xAC20 + 2xAC10

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
==>If/when MWO introduces Hero Dire Wolf with ECM CT but without Jump Jets, I would be willing to buy multiple copies of this Hero mech!

Curccu, on 08 June 2022 - 12:42 AM, said:

What kind of builds? Just curious... For some builds that 3 tons might be impossible but really hard to see getting that 1JJ and ECM not worth it.
Plenty of ammo for 8xDakka at least.

LordNothing, on 07 June 2022 - 10:38 PM, said:

i mean its still a good build for quick play. it can pull its weight. but that ecm is expensive. would be nice if you could take out the jump jet. but that was likely intentional to keep the maximum dakka c from becoming too good at what it does.

Edited by w0qj, 08 June 2022 - 08:57 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Curccu, on 08 June 2022 - 12:42 AM, said:

What kind of builds? Just curious... For some builds that 3 tons might be impossible but really hard to see getting that 1JJ and ECM not worth it.
Plenty of ammo for 8xDakka at least.

I'd trade the ECM for more leg armor since those are juicy targets for lights. Lights should always give your legs a nice poke just to see if you were skipping leg day. For any mech that is typically working at extreme range (like ERLL/AC2/ERPPC range), ECM isn't honestly that useful since you are typically working at the edge or past radar range anyway. ECM is much more beneficial to the AC5/AC10 or Gauss Vomit whale which are more strapped for tonnage to bother with the ECM/JJ.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 June 2022 - 08:43 AM.

[Curccu]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 08 June 2022 - 08:41 AM, said:

I'd trade the ECM for more leg armor since those are juicy targets for lights. Lights should always give your legs a nice poke just to see if you were skipping leg day. For any mech that is typically working at extreme range (like ERLL/AC2/ERPPC range), ECM isn't honestly that useful since you are typically working at the edge or past radar range anyway. ECM is much more beneficial to the AC5/AC10 or Gauss Vomit whale which are more strapped for tonnage to bother with the ECM/JJ.

99 healthpoint each leg isn't really super juicy legs, lose ½ or 1½ ton of ammo to get almost full leg armor and still got ammo worth 1566 damage without skilltree nodes.
What range you got available also varies somewhat for what map you get (assuming we are talking about quickplay).

[w0qj]

Just bought 4x DWF-A for its CT.

I'm sick of the time lost for manually replicating the same weapon/equipment/armor build onto each of my Dire Wolf:
DWF-UV
DWF-Prime
DWF-C(S)
DWF-C
DWF-W(C)

~~Therefore I'm just gonna have 4x DWF-A center torso (CT), standardise all builds on it, and [Save] the build all at DWF-A instead. That's how much I like Dire Wolf

w0qj, on 07 June 2022 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'm on the market for 4x Dire Wolf non-ECM CT for MWO gaming QoL (Quality of Life); one of my favorite mech.

Just bought a DWF-A mech during the last hours of this current mech sale, to give its CT a test spin.

FYI, I already own 2x DWF-UV hero mechs for arm parts.

I've previously planned two (2x) additional DWF-UV for above reasons.

If this new DWF-A purchase works out like I think it would (-5% heat, +10% velocity), then I might buy three (3x) additional DWF-A mechs instead, and cancel this proposed 2x DWF-UV additional purchase.

Surely CT of DWF-UV hero mech should be at least as powerful as DWF-A CT, no?

[Meep Meep]

Nightbird, on 07 June 2022 - 01:02 PM, said:

Are the options only "meh or bleh" or "pay to win"? Is being just as good as free mechs not an option? And why?

I'm not defending it. Just explaining that at the time most of the hero mechs were made they were using that methodology and most players agreed with it because there was a very strong bt tabletop presence in the early days and they were the ones forking out most of the money. Times have changed and I wouldn't mind every hero mech to get a new balance pass to make all of them viable or even a bit strong so they are more desirable to buy. Like it or not if you like this game and want it to stick around longer we are going to have to start to drop at least a bit of money even if its just the smallest mc pack to buy some gsp. Seems a small price to pay to keep the game alive and possible even improved if enough money comes in.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Meep Meep, on 08 June 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Like it or not if you like this game and want it to stick around longer we are going to have to start to drop at least a bit of money even if its just the smallest mc pack to buy some gsp. Seems a small price to pay to keep the game alive and possible even improved if enough money comes in.

Then buy some MC and buy some cosmetics (or ask for better ones that would make you spend money), money should never be translated to power (no matter how small) and is part of the reason hero variants were a mistake from the very beginning because now they have to tread this line.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 June 2022 - 03:50 PM.

[w0qj]

For real P2W game, please check this Off-Topic item out:

https://mwomercs.com...diabl0-imm0rtal

- - - - - - - - - - -
MWO is very fair for F2P players, especially now with frequent MC+GSP handouts

Personally I feel that MWO can have a more P2W slant for paying customers, but I digress...

[D V Devnull]

w0qj, on 08 June 2022 - 03:48 PM, said:

Personally I feel that MWO can have a more P2W slant for paying customers, but I digress...

I've seen many games lose players for allowing Pay-to-Win elements, and some even collapsed out of existence entirely. It's a bad idea, and should never be something that gets started.

~D. V. "saw the player base collapse too many times on games with P2W stuff" Devnull



[edit by the post's author on 2022-06-09 @ 08:00 UTC for some missed text... all fixed now]

Edited by D V Devnull, 09 June 2022 - 12:01 AM.

[panzer1b]

Its due to the missile hardpoint. Yes its rare for anyone to bother using it, but its there and an option and obviously no weapon harpoint means slightly better quirks then 1 weapon hardpoint even if very few builds bother using it.

That said, pretty much anyone i see whos running the direcow is using the C CT (ECM+JJ), and mixing pods to have 8 AC2s as thats like the only truly unique and powerful loadout the direcow has that cant just be stuck on a lighter mech. That or 8 ERLLs, i pretty much dont see anything else on dat mech as it can be ran better on other more agile and better hitboxed mechs. You rarely see the old traditional builds like gauss vomit (deathstrike does dat better) or 2UAC10+3UAC5 (same thing minus 1 UAC5 on a BAS or MCII).

[Nightbird]

Even if you put aside omni-mechs, where you can sometimes get a useful pod out of the deal, most IS heroes are trash.

[D A T A]

w0qj, on 04 June 2022 - 11:22 AM, said:

Dear MWO,
So why is the Standard Variant CT better than the Special Variant CT?
Don't MWO want us to buy Special Variant?

Must I buy DWF-A (CT quirk: -5% Heat; +10% Velocity), Standard Variant for CBills?

I want to buy: DWF-UV (CT quirk: -2.5% Heat; +10% Velocity), Special Variant for MC.

- - - - - - - - - - -
Propose: DWF-UV (CT quirk: -5% Heat; +10% Velocity)

UV has a missile in the ct

A and Prime have nothing.

The cts with nothing have less value, therefore must be compensated with something.