16 replies to this topic

[w0qj]

Guys, I've just QP killed opponent in AS7-K with XL engine (blew its side torso and died).

Please, for the sake of new players (and perhaps a few returning players too),
need rework on IS mechs--remove all XL Engines from default build (when you've first bought the mech).

No more new players confused with, why did I just die??

- - - - - - - - - -
I was not any better... when I returned to MWO 24 months ago, I also fielded Atlas with XL engine...

but at least I read the forums as to why...

Edited by w0qj, 08 June 2022 - 07:51 AM.

[Nondescript Machine]

Personally, I'd rather there be a warning for such things, rather than tweaking the default build.

[Horseman]

w0qj, on 08 June 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

Please, for the sake of new players (and perhaps a few returning players too),
need rework on IS mechs--remove all XL Engines from default build (when you've first bought the mech).

You forget that the stock loadouts are, for the most part, canon stock loadouts. The only viable alternative your proposal gives is to sell those mechs with no engine whatsoever, in an unfieldable condition.
That's a hard pass.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

The vast majority of stock load outs are garbage… they are just garbage in different ways. At least with the k3 (which most players got for free recently) you can sell or reuse elsewhere that big XL

[Tarl Cabot]

w0qj, on 08 June 2022 - 07:49 AM, said:

Guys, I've just QP killed opponent in AS7-K with XL engine (blew its side torso and died).

Please, for the sake of new players (and perhaps a few returning players too),
need rework on IS mechs--remove all XL Engines from default build (when you've first bought the mech).

No more new players confused with, why did I just die??

- - - - - - - - - -
I was not any better... when I returned to MWO 24 months ago, I also fielded Atlas with XL engine...

but at least I read the forums as to why...

I would rather PGI/Chris follow up on his "promise" to streamline isXL to fall inline with cXL/LFE, surviving lost of 1st ST but with different degrees of dissipation/maneuverability loss, with the isXL on the high end, cXL in the middle and the LFE on the low end. And on the plus side for cXL in Omni's apply a slight mobility quirk to Omni CT

PGI is utilizing only a portion of the engine crit rules and heatscale. Add that for any players running an IS trial mech or purchasing trial/champion/etc IS mechs w/isXL, even with the heat bar sitting at 0% isXL is instant death w/loss of a ST, whereas for cXL and the couple of mechs w/LFE it isn't. And it would make IS Omnimechs viable instead of players targeting a ST instead of CT/cockpit or both ST/legs to kill said mech. (CT/cockpit/both legs still needed for STD too ).

• isXL 40% Engine loss heat capacity / x% loss heat dissipation / 25% movement
  
• cXL 25-30% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 20% movement
  
• LFE 15-20% Engine loss heat capacity/ x% loss heat dissipation / 15% movement

[w0qj]

Guys, I'm not into BattleTech/MechWarrior lore and lore mech builds, but I do care about the New Player experience in MWO...

Many new players would just play the mech immediately ad verbum, and with that XL engine in the mech,
it's literally a walking mech deathtrap.

And most New Players won't even know why their side torso was blown and they died so easily (XL Engine),
whereas opponents regularly survive with side torso destroyed!

New Player experience...
New Player experience...
New Player experience...

Edited by w0qj, 09 June 2022 - 02:41 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

For the most part, stock loadouts suck. I would say people should be able to buy barebones mechs because some of them are expensive just because of an engine your likely to not ever use. However I would also note that really, there should be recommended loadouts for variants that you can click on or look at if we are serious about concern for NPE. Really the part of the problem is that this game has never had hooks into Smurfy or whatever mechlab utility of choice to reference common builds that people run and effectively crowdsource what the champions were meant to solve because this game offers no real help when figuring out what makes a good build good, because it isn't kitchen sink builds like most stock mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 08 June 2022 - 04:12 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Just remove IS ST-death penalty. Period.

This is lore problem. It's based on assumption, that being able to customize IS build gives players some advantage, so there should be some penalty to compensate it. Problem is - it doesn't. Clan fixed builds are perfect, because Clan 'Mechs are superior by design. Majority of IS 'Mechs are complete garbage. Only XL engines can help players to bring IS builds on par with Clan ones. So, IS ST-death penalty is penalty just for the sake of penalty.

Edited by MrMadguy, 08 June 2022 - 08:52 PM.

[Hobbles v]

Nah.

I'm a huge fan of changing stock builds. Turn them into usable builds inspired by the "lore" accurate builds.

This actually means dramatically increasing the number of stock XL mechs.

Speed, and firepower plus positioning are way more important than durability.

Find ways to explain the mechanics better, don't give players the worst equipment by default to "protect" them.

Edited by Hobbles v, 09 June 2022 - 06:35 AM.

[AncientRaig]

w0qj, on 08 June 2022 - 03:53 PM, said:

Guys, I'm not into BattleTech/MechWarrior lore and lore mech builds, but I do care about the New Player experience in MWO...

Many new players would just play the mech immediately ad verbum, and with that XL engine in the mech,
it's literally a walking mech deathtrap.

And most New Players won't even know why their side torso was blown and they died so easily (XL Engine),
whereas opponents regularly survive with side torso destroyed!

New Player experience...
New Player experience...
New Player experience...

The problem is that PGI would have to completely redesign every single IS mech with a stock XL engine to keep them from being over-tonnage. A warning on the loadout page saying "you've got an XL engine, if you lose a side torso you'll die" would be a better solution.

[The6thMessenger]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 08 June 2022 - 09:08 AM, said:

The vast majority of stock load outs are garbage… they are just garbage in different ways. At least with the k3 (which most players got for free recently) you can sell or reuse elsewhere that big XL

**** is why I've keep saying that make champion mechs buyable by C-Bills, my ******* god.

[Dionnsai]

XL Engines are amazing.

If you want to know who is dangling like an elephant, look for the guy running an XL engine.

You don't need weak pansy LFE or standard engines, be a true CHAD, put an XL engine in that grasshopper and:

GO FASTER!
TWIST HARDER!
MORE GUNS!



XL Engines Incorporated Supports This Message

Edited by Dionnsai, 10 June 2022 - 08:47 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Nah IS XL is fine, it allows an IS 'Mech with all its quirks and customizability to field a loadout close to a Clan 'Mech with all the advantages of shorter firing times/burst size/heat of IS weapons. No need to buff survivability at all. But messaging should be better - maybe an actual readout of what location loss will be fatal and why. The tutorial should also really hammer the point home, with the target practice section including XL/LFE 'Mechs with various configurations of opened torso locations.

Edited by RickySpanish, 10 June 2022 - 09:12 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

RickySpanish, on 10 June 2022 - 09:09 AM, said:

Nah IS XL is fine, it allows an IS 'Mech with all its quirks and customizability to field a loadout close to a Clan 'Mech with all the advantages of shorter firing times/burst size/heat of IS weapons. No need to buff survivability at all.

It is fine if we ignore the fact that certain mechs are basically unable to run it. Marauder, Thanatos, Uziel, Atlas, etc. On mechs like the Grasshopper or Banshee it is fine because they are walking center torsos.

The "better" weapons is to make up for other things, like the fact their weaponry are generally higher in tonnage for no increase in firepower. Or the fact you can't mount Endo/Ferro like you can on the Clan side, or the significantly lower cap on DHS you can mount (the best an IS mech can do is 30 DHS, the best a Clan mech can do is 41 DHS and is more lopsided in practice).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 12 June 2022 - 07:50 PM.

[John McClintock]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 12 June 2022 - 07:49 PM, said:

It is fine if we ignore the fact that certain mechs are basically unable to run it. Marauder, Thanatos, Uziel, Atlas, etc. On mechs like the Grasshopper or Banshee it is fine because they are walking center torsos.

The "better" weapons is to make up for other things, like the fact their weaponry are generally higher in tonnage for no increase in firepower. Or the fact you can't mount Endo/Ferro like you can on the Clan side, or the significantly lower cap on DHS you can mount (the best an IS mech can do is 30 DHS, the best a Clan mech can do is 41 DHS and is more lopsided in practice).

Rifleman is a walking CT, actually, lots of mechs do just fine with an ISXL, but assaults are not generally one of them.

Also, with the way Clan XL has a massive heat spike plus lack of heat control after loosing a side torso, Clan XL isn't really much better than IS XL. You should at least be able to toss on extra heat sinks to prevent that on clan mechs, like back up heat sinks.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

John McClintock, on 12 June 2022 - 08:49 PM, said:

Also, with the way Clan XL has a massive heat spike plus lack of heat control after loosing a side torso, Clan XL isn't really much better than IS XL.

You do realize this is the same thing the Light Engine has right (which is also heavier)? High heat is still better than death though.

John McClintock, on 12 June 2022 - 08:49 PM, said:

lots of mechs do just fine with an ISXL

And lots of mechs would love to be able to run an XL but can't. As I said before, it is pretty dependent on hitboxes and what weight class on whether you can run it or not.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 13 June 2022 - 08:26 AM.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread has been moved to Feature Suggestions