39 replies to this topic

[Escef]

Gasboy, on 06 July 2022 - 07:52 AM, said:

I'm sure if IS omnis become a thing, PGI will have a brilliant solution. We'll probably have more P variants. Or maybe they'll open up engine options for all omnis.

But until they decide IS omnis will exist, this thread is just mental [redacted].

"Mental [redacted]" describes the vast majority of threads here.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 07 July 2022 - 03:15 AM.
quote cleanup

[Gasboy]

Escef, on 06 July 2022 - 02:00 PM, said:

"Mental [redacted]" describes the vast majority of threads here.

Would saying, "This thread is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist." be better then?

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 07 July 2022 - 03:15 AM.
quote cleanup

[Escef]

Gasboy, on 07 July 2022 - 02:12 AM, said:

Would saying, "This thread is trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist." be better then?

It's more like, "There's this thing some people in the community want, but getting it involves would spawn some weird problems. What would mitigate those?"

I know this is going to blow your mind, but PGI does pay attention to what the community talks about. They avoid interacting, they take their sweet time with implementation; but they do listen. As an example, the differences between Inner Sphere weapons and clan weapons were all ideas users floated on these forums (longer beam burn times, burst-fire UACs, missiles that stream fire, etc.). Now, I'm not going to say that PGI's own design staff hadn't or couldn't have thought of these on their own, but knowing what the community is willing to accept is also important.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a large number of posters here seem to consider themselves expert game designers. They're nothing of the sort, of course. They think that just because they modded a game once that they are suddenly design savants.

I mean, I don't know what it is you even expect people to talk about here. But I'll gladly take "Mental [redacted]" (hint taken, Valdez) over the regurgitation of the same handful of topics we've had here for years upon years. (Assaults are OP, Lights are OP, LRMs are OP, LRMs underperform, Clans OP, Why can't we force everyone to play the game mode I like?, etc.)

[Gasboy]

Escef, on 07 July 2022 - 03:51 AM, said:

I mean, I don't know what it is you even expect people to talk about here. But I'll gladly take "Mental [redacted]" (hint taken, Valdez) over the regurgitation of the same handful of topics we've had here for years upon years. (Assaults are OP, Lights are OP, LRMs are OP, LRMs underperform, Clans OP, Why can't we force everyone to play the game mode I like?, etc.)

Eh, PGI listens when it's worth it to them. They've blithly ignored stuff when it is not good for them, even if it might make the game better, or the experience better, for the players. They have changed more recently, I'll give you that much.

As for regurgitated topics, this is one of them. People want the benefits of XL engines in IS mechs, but don't want to pay the cost of using them.

[confracto]

Gasboy, on 07 July 2022 - 05:19 AM, said:

Eh, PGI listens when it's worth it to them. They've blithly ignored stuff when it is not good for them, even if it might make the game better, or the experience better, for the players. They have changed more recently, I'll give you that much.

As for regurgitated topics, this is one of them. People want the benefits of XL engines in IS mechs, but don't want to pay the cost of using them.

Some of us listened a lot, others less so. being able to act on what people were asking for was never as simple as it appeared. It was usually extremely complicated to or impossible to enact changes that appeared small to the outside. A lack of understanding how complicated things was a constant sticking point with the Cauldron in the last year. Changes they wanted, that sound easy, weren't.

[ScrapIron Prime]

confracto, on 07 July 2022 - 10:51 AM, said:

Some of us listened a lot, others less so. being able to act on what people were asking for was never as simple as it appeared. It was usually extremely complicated to or impossible to enact changes that appeared small to the outside. A lack of understanding how complicated things was a constant sticking point with the Cauldron in the last year. Changes they wanted, that sound easy, weren't.

As someone who has to explain system and code complexity to management from time to time... this man speaks the truth!

[Gasboy]

confracto, on 07 July 2022 - 10:51 AM, said:

Some of us listened a lot, others less so. being able to act on what people were asking for was never as simple as it appeared. It was usually extremely complicated to or impossible to enact changes that appeared small to the outside. A lack of understanding how complicated things was a constant sticking point with the Cauldron in the last year. Changes they wanted, that sound easy, weren't.

Oh, I get it from a coding perspective. And I know that there are things that may never be changed.

I also was not pointing at the more recent things PGI has or hasn't done.

It just felt, for a long time, that in many cases, PGI absorbed information, and nothing changed.

I think that there are cases where PGI should have said, "We can't do that." Instead of silence.

[_v0rt3x_]

since we're asking for ridiculous stuff that should never been in the game here, can i get a lambo jenner in the next mech pack? it needs to be able to fit 20 jjets and extra coolshots.

[CFC Conky]

iexist, on 15 July 2022 - 12:23 PM, said:

since we're asking for ridiculous stuff that should never been in the game here, can i get a lambo jenner in the next mech pack? it needs to be able to fit 20 jjets and extra coolshots.

I've been watching JGx DATA's videos and almost all his IS builds use XL engines. I've been running some of his builds and frankly, having an XL has more benefits than drawbacks in them, at least at my tier (T4). Personally, I'd just like xl engines to be cheaper to buy. I still use STD and LFE mills in many of my mechs but having an XL is not necessarily a guaranteed death sentence anymore for me.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 15 July 2022 - 12:32 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

CFC Conky, on 15 July 2022 - 12:31 PM, said:

I've been watching JGx DATA's videos and almost all his IS builds use XL engines. I've been running some of his builds and frankly, having an XL has more benefits than drawbacks in them, at least at my tier (T4). Personally, I'd just like xl engines to be cheaper to buy. I still use STD and LFE mills in many of my mechs but having an XL is not necessarily a guaranteed death sentence anymore for me.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Well D A T A has more situational awareness than most folks, so an XL isn't as much of a death sentence when you know where and when you're likely to get shot. But unless its part of a long compilation of matches, he's not going to post a "poof, I got owned" video very often. Which happens with IS XL.

[CFC Conky]

ScrapIron Prime, on 15 July 2022 - 02:06 PM, said:

Well D A T A has more situational awareness than most folks, so an XL isn't as much of a death sentence when you know where and when you're likely to get shot. But unless its part of a long compilation of matches, he's not going to post a "poof, I got owned" video very often. Which happens with IS XL.

Oh I still get rekt often enough, but because I can usually carry more weapons when using an XL engine, my damage output, number of kills, and average match score have improved, especially in the case of medium and/or lighter heavy mechs.

Yes, DATA's videos may be curated, but his build focus on offence is effective imo.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[ScrapIron Prime]

CFC Conky, on 15 July 2022 - 02:36 PM, said:

Oh I still get rekt often enough, but because I can usually carry more weapons when using an XL engine, my damage output, number of kills, and average match score have improved, especially in the case of medium and/or lighter heavy mechs.

Yes, DATA's videos may be curated, but his build focus on offence is effective imo.

True enough. More firepower is vital when you manage your position well enough to not get rolled too often. It's rare for me to use an XL on a larger IS mech, but there are times...

Like this little fellow with 100% crit reduction.
https://mwo.nav-alph...cba45a35_CGR-N7

[PocketYoda]

martian, on 05 July 2022 - 08:34 PM, said:

You really should.

IS XL engines are excellent choice on many IS light 'Mechs and they often work well on many IS medium and heavy 'Mechs.

Nope one shoulder death away from game over.. Light engines last longer and can almost boat the same..

XL are not worth it.. You can't even twist to stop your death as shoulders are your weak points.. Some tiny lights are ok with XL.

[martian]

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

Nope one shoulder death away from game over..

Many 'Mechs have arms with quite massive shoulder baffles that can be used to protect their side torsos.

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

Light engines last longer and can almost boat the same..

Extralight engines have their advantages:

• 300-rated Light engine weighs 20.5 tons
  
• 300-rated XL engine weighs 15.5 tons

That's five tons difference. Those five tons can be used for better armor protection, more weapons or ammo, or for improved cooling.

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

XL are not worth it.. You can't even twist to stop your death as shoulders are your weak points.. Some tiny lights are ok with XL.

You must learn when to torso twist in the right moment.

[Krovakon]

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

Nope one shoulder death away from game over.. Light engines last longer and can almost boat the same..

XL are not worth it.. You can't even twist to stop your death as shoulders are your weak points.. Some tiny lights are ok with XL.

The vast majority of mechs with Light Engines are essentially dead when that side torso pops anyway. If the immediate heat spike doesn't kill you, the massive loss of cooling and heat capacity means you can only fire another 2-3 times before the match is over and you lose 25% of your top speed as well. So I never run Light engines unless I'm critical slot locked in the side torso due to weapons and can't fit an XL or the build I'm running is cold enough that losing 50+% of my cooling and capacity has minimal impact on my ability to shoot.

[Steve Pryde]

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

Nope one shoulder death away from game over.. Light engines last longer and can almost boat the same..

XL are not worth it.. You can't even twist to stop your death as shoulders are your weak points.. Some tiny lights are ok with XL.

Most of my IS mechs carry an xl engine, especially energie boats. After you lose a sidetorso with an lfe your pretty much useless anyway because your cooling is mostly gone now. Another benefit is most of the time you go for an bigger engine for getting more heat sinks into the engine for even better cooling and running faster to get into better positions/faster into cover.

So na, you're wrong.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 17 July 2022 - 12:29 AM.

[Escef]

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

Nope one shoulder death away from game over.. Light engines last longer and can almost boat the same..

XL are not worth it.. You can't even twist to stop your death as shoulders are your weak points.. Some tiny lights are ok with XL.

If you are on top of your damage rolling, you can last quite a while with an IS XL. First time I broke 1300 damage in a quick play match was in a Zeus with a 375XL. I've gotten great mileage out of XLs in Warhammers, Marauders, Battlemasters, Catapults, Zeus, Riflemen, Centurions, Griffins, Shadowhawks, Wolverines, Assassins...

I mean, you talk about how lights are unstoppable and how you can't get an IS XL to work... How bad is your ping and packet loss? Because if those are fine, I have to ask, how old are you? Or do you have a nerve disorder? Because either your net connection is junk or your reflexes are... Unless you're playing with a joystick? Please tell us you aren't playing with a joystick. Even if you have to lie to us, tell us you aren't using a joystick.

[Escef]

martian, on 16 July 2022 - 11:24 PM, said:

Extralight engines have their advantages:

• 300-rated Light engine weighs 20.5 tons
  
• 300-rated XL engine weighs 15.5 tons

That's five tons difference. Those five tons can be used for better armor protection, more weapons or ammo, or for improved cooling.

As a general rule; XL for speed, not payload. For the same tonnage as a 300 LFE you can get a 340 XL. If you can scrounge up another 1.5 tons, you can sneak that up to a 350XL (and maybe the crit slots you get back by tucking an extra sink into the engine can get you ferro/light ferro/endo steel to help offset that tonnage difference). The extra speed often buys you a lot of survivability if you use it right.

Mind you, sometimes it's just plain fun to get silly. My Resistance Black Knight is named "Invincible" as a Monty Python reference, and because of that it's packing twin AMS and a standard engine. I wanted it to be as durable as possible.

[Knownswift]

Could you even imagine the light-crying if they let IS-XL survive side torso destruction?

[CFC Conky]

Nomad Tech, on 16 July 2022 - 10:37 PM, said:

... Some tiny lights are ok with XL.
...

I would argue that most, if not all, light mechs are better off with XL engines because for them speed is life. There just isn't enough armour on them to make taking a LFE worth it imo, if you lose one torso the next shot will kill you anyway so you might as well get the most mobility you can so you can avoid getting hit in the first place.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky