61 replies to this topic

[TheCaptainJZ]

Maybe part of the problem with longer range weapons is how much farther you get to deal fractional damage. The longer the max range is, the farther the tapered damage goes.

[pattonesque]

use cover, pack a bunch of SRMs or big ACs or red lasers, don't just YOLO and brawling is legit p. good

[Bud Crue]

Charismatic Enigma, on 07 July 2022 - 07:58 AM, said:

Recently I've noticed a large increase in ER Large Laser snipers and LRM spam. I enjoy short range, up close and personal gameplay which seems to be effectively neutralised due to my being outranged and unable to close on these enemies to bring my srm's and/or streaks to bear on viable targets. It's gotten to the point where I am just a target and do little to contribute, even hearing negative comments via comms from team mates. Suggestions are welcome - maybe I'll abandon brawling and try something new, or turn to the dark side and join the snipers and lurmers.....

You rush in too soon or put yourself in a position where you are losing half your armor before you can even get into range you die and feel like "brawling sucks". As someone who screws this up a lot, trust me, successful/satisfying brawling has way more to do with patience and positioning than what others (blues or reds) are bringing to the fight. E.g., if you see the majority of your team holding back or running off to find sniping positions, then any brawling you plan to do has to be either lucky/opportunistic (e.g. the impatient folks on frozen assault who get bored and rush over by themselves) or you have to have the patience to wait until they come to you.

Also, brawling is way, way, way more effective with a wingman (or three). E.g., last night there was a three man playing 2 AC20 Jaggers, who were consistently patiently waiting until both sides were engaged in the long/mid range trading, and then about 5 min in they would use cover to come in as a group to raise hell. They did it successfully on three of the four drops I encountered them; they only blew it on a Rubellite match when they got spotted prematurely.

[LordNothing]

it still happens. ive had a lot of brawls during the first half of the lootbag event. its just a stupid thing to build a mech for. because you are stuck idle for the first half of the match or you have to take disproportionate risks to trade at sub-optimal ranges. i just cant currently recommend building anything with a < 400m max range unless its fast enough you can do hit and runs with it. on bigger mechs you just use a uac10 and mrms instead of a uac20 and srms. both equally deadly but one can be used at 400-500m. short of significantly buffing short range weaponry, and the resulting salt storm for doing so, i don't see that changing any time soon.

[Novakaine]

I've never been anybody's brawler unless you consider 400 meter lurming brawling.
But with a decent mech and some smart positioning anyone can do it.
Even me.

[LordNothing]

Novakaine, on 08 July 2022 - 09:32 AM, said:

I've never been anybody's brawler unless you consider 400 meter lurming brawling.
But with a decent mech and some smart positioning anyone can do it.
Even me.

i like using atms as brawl weapons.

[Vorpal Puppy]

Brawling isn't what it used to be, but you can make it work. Take some of the MC from the recent events and buy yourself a Centurion YLW. AC-20 in the arm and a Snub in the CT, fire and twist to protect that arm. Get the right map and it can be brutal.

[Doppelsoldner King Crab]

two days ago up to yesterday was LL spam,
today was losing so much with my general purpose assaults, tried heavies with lasers and still lost.

now i'm on mediums and winning with lots of snubs left and right.
assaults 0/6
heavies 1/4
mediums with snubs 4/0

i guess snubs is the new meta?

[BellatorMonk]

Vorpal Puppy, on 08 July 2022 - 01:35 PM, said:

Brawling isn't what it used to be, but you can make it work. Take some of the MC from the recent events and buy yourself a Centurion YLW. AC-20 in the arm and a Snub in the CT, fire and twist to protect that arm. Get the right map and it can be brutal.

I will give this a shot. I had been struggling to update mine and find it's role again after being gone for a few years..

[PocketYoda]

feeWAIVER, on 07 July 2022 - 08:32 AM, said:

Invest in an AC20 and change your game to short range flanking/poking.
Missiles suck.

Cough LBX 20..

[Saved By The Bell]

Mark Yore, on 07 July 2022 - 07:18 PM, said:

1) Find a mech with ECM
2) Go around the map, preferably with a light, until you're within brawling range of the snipers
3) First shot should be into their backs to wake them up, then watch as they try to kill you with long-range weapons
4) Head back and rejoin the fight.

And find your team all dead.

[LordNothing]

Saved By The Bell, on 09 July 2022 - 12:14 AM, said:

And find your team all dead.

i have a similar problem in conquest when i drop light. i like to cap 3 and fight. but sometimes the team hides in a hole and doesn't bother to defend their caps or get new caps, or fight the enemy at all. so the scoreboard never equalizes. and then you end up solo fighting a bunch of fresh mechs at the end. i like to find one with holes in its armor i can exploit. i can tell how well the rest of the team contributed just by what the enemy armor looks like.

[Quandoo]

game has too high rewards for playing bad, so people don't even try. max rewards should only come in for 300dmg as light, 400 as medium, 500 as heavy and 600 as assault.

below 200 no reward at all, 250 only 25%

Edited by Quandoo, 09 July 2022 - 10:45 AM.

[LordNothing]

Quandoo, on 09 July 2022 - 10:32 AM, said:

game has too high rewards for playing bad, so people don't even try. max rewards should only come in for 300dmg as light, 400 as medium, 500 as heavy and 600 as assault.

below 200 no reward at all, 250 only 25%

well then say goodbye to tiers 3-5 and 84% of the population.

people don't play games if they don't feel like they are progressing. people certainly don't spend money on games where there is no progression. the only way you can make everyone t1 is if t1 doesn't mean anything like in the xp bar days of olde.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 July 2022 - 12:09 PM.

[YueFei]

Vorpal Puppy, on 08 July 2022 - 01:35 PM, said:

Brawling isn't what it used to be, but you can make it work. Take some of the MC from the recent events and buy yourself a Centurion YLW. AC-20 in the arm and a Snub in the CT, fire and twist to protect that arm. Get the right map and it can be brutal.

I think that a lot of people (including myself) just got too used to brawling being so strong for so long, that it was taken for granted.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: when I look at my mech stats for different mechs, I find that it's my brawling mechs that have the highest W/L, hovering around 1.4 to 1.6. My long-range and mid-range mechs have lower W/L ratios, hovering around 1.0. It's just that brawling is less consistent, so it has the very very lowest of "lows", and that has a big mental and psychological impact, because it sticks in your memory more when you get dunked on the whole match and only do like 50 damage because you could never get into range.

What we're seeing now is just things being balanced away from being so brawl dominant. That's a good thing, and I say that as someone whose favorite playstyle is brawling. I figure when my brawl W/L ratio is the same as my mid-range/long-range W/L (closer to 1.0), then balance will be in a pretty good state between long/mid/short range.

[Mark Yore]

Saved By The Bell, on 09 July 2022 - 12:14 AM, said:

And find your team all dead.

That's generally their fault. Staying in a hole to get NARCed by a Raven, LRMed to death and then finished off by a light wolf pack is no fun at all.

If they can't match up to a 10v10 game while 2 mechs are trying to take out the 2 long-range threats then they need to reconsider how they're playing. It's amazing how many teams stick to the same position because it's where they've always gone. And you get completely predictable rotations that ignore the objective.

For instance, Skirmish or Assault games don't need you to be at a specific place on the map. What's wrong with an ambush based around your spawn point instead of moving to the middle of the map? And yet most groups are averse to even considering it.

[caravann]

The masters of short range brawling is piranha, flea and pirate's bane.

The only skirmisher I seen who work today is shadow cat.
Most other suboptimal skirmishers are relying on the team stomping the other team and are brawlers.

Skirmishers are relying on position and doesn't play in wolfpack like the brawlers.
They need to be either faster or able to escape and jump jets give good scouting.
A skirmisher need at least familiar speed of the other team's brawler and jump jets to get to a position where the brawlers won't find it.

Brawlers need the team to pull it off while skirmishers are rangers and for most part they get all alone as they skirmish the map. Their greatest asset is to make a lance chasing it around the map but the stalemate on maps make it that even if the team has 1/3 less lances the advantages are merely seconds. A skirmisher's goal isn't team play but to obtain their own kills and scores. This is why skirmisher as concept only work as long the other team has targets because they have their own skirmishers with jumpjets and some maps provide with better positions. There are hybrids of brawlers with skirmisher who make me say that skirmishers are dead because brawling has taken over the category.

Scouts are mechs who is unseen and example of scouts is a raven with narc or a stealth flea with flamers.
They rely on situation than position and doesn't engage or harass the team to go on a witch hunt across the continent. They're not provoking a conflict since they aren't directly attacking.

Brawling is still in the game, example of Viper and mist lynx but skirmishers like Javelin who aren't based on brawling is dead because brawlers with jump jets fills the gap of skirmishers and skirmishers need to be extremely careful to not be noticed by brawlers. In most cases a skirmisher is done if brawlers direct their attention. Skirmishers goal isn't to win for the team but to win the scores.

[BellatorMonk]

Mark Yore, on 09 July 2022 - 05:36 PM, said:

That's generally their fault. Staying in a hole to get NARCed by a Raven, LRMed to death and then finished off by a light wolf pack is no fun at all.

If they can't match up to a 10v10 game while 2 mechs are trying to take out the 2 long-range threats then they need to reconsider how they're playing. It's amazing how many teams stick to the same position because it's where they've always gone. And you get completely predictable rotations that ignore the objective.

For instance, Skirmish or Assault games don't need you to be at a specific place on the map. What's wrong with an ambush based around your spawn point instead of moving to the middle of the map? And yet most groups are averse to even considering it.

Because most people don't have the patience to stand around for 5min in order to spring a trap...

[1Exitar1]

I rarely play long range mechs, I don't have the eyes for it. Besides, my play style is to get up close! I hardly ever have a weapon that has more than 400m on it. It does make it hard to take on the snipers though.

[BellatorMonk]

I have been away from the game for 4 or so years. Stop playing around the time Cataphracts and Highlanders were the poptart dejour, brawling was still viable via Atlas domination, nascar was tiring (apparently it's still a thing) and LRM boats were still used to soften the enemy up.

Been back two weeks, drop some money on some of the current summer deals and updated my mech selection and got rid of some older chassis that don't seem to fit the current meta (I will explain my perception of the meta) and worked my way halfway up to PR3.

I had been trying to brawl with tried and true methods from the past in the 1st week and chalked up most of my losses and low scores to trying to get back into the saddle and in most cases a lack of SoloQ/PUG communication.

By the 2nd week I realized close range brawling was next to impossible at 300m or less w/o a lucky PUG drop or a premades. Nearly every match I had 1-4 lights on my tail (in my Assaults) within 30-60 secs of the match starting and in most cases the team just didn't care to help or were simply to dumb to understand the need to mitigate the light rush.

I saw that almost every build had been min/maxxed with lasers or SPPCs that cored vital areas in 1-2 hits before I could even get in range, focus a shot or stand "toe to toe" in many cases.

I have now adjusted my playstyle and mechs to take advantage of being those "meta lights", adjusted nearly every Heavy and Assault to being mid to long range in order to get enough damage in QPlay matches win or loss to maintain or increase my PR and make credits.

I see all these wonderful Youtube guys/builds from probably the current top clans and realized after trying some of them that the matches they are posting that look so good are because it took them many game to find that standout match for the build and they had a lance of buddies helping to setup the shots, kills, etc instead of purely playing solo like a lot of us scrubs.

I guess we will see what difference the upcoming MM patch makes and the only other suggestion I would have to counter the current "light meta" to allow quality brawling or tactical more matches again is increase armor on heavies/assaults by 25% or perhaps cap engine speeds to something lower than 120KPH unless MASC enabled.

This is just my view after two weeks of trying to get back into the saddle and trying to "git gud" again. I know and acknowledge gameplay is completely different with premades/clan comms, etc, I am talking strictly QPlay scenarios/solo play.

Edited by BellatorMonk, 14 July 2022 - 09:14 AM.