20 replies to this topic

[Warbrynger]

We have been playing steady since May 2022. We have three to four people on each night but have had several occasions with just two players to start the night. For May and June, we have had absolutely no problem at all getting into a match within 60 seconds. Two man, three man, four man - did not matter, under 60 seconds.

Since the July patch, we have now noticed the following:

1 man = under 60 seconds.

2 man = typically more than 5 minutes (after you get a beer, use the bathroom, and surf reddit, you get kind of annoyed at the wait - who wants to play for 10 minutes and then wait for another 10 to get a match).

3 man = under 1 minute average (never has taken more than 2 minutes to find a match)

4 man = under 1 minute average (never more than 2 minutes to find a match)


Obviously - something has changed and I know something was mentioned in the July patch notes about fixing an issue with group queues. I am not sure if the current status is a "fix" as it makes it hard to want to play MWO until the full group is able to get online. And sometimes, by then, we are having fun doing something else (another game).

Does PGI know about this unique issue that was "fixed" - I searched the forums and could only find a post from 2015 that I did not want to necro. There is definitely something different on the quick play queue now - we lived under 60 seconds for two months with two man teams until the July patch.

[Ekson Valdez]

This thread has been moved to General Discussion

[PocketYoda]

So play solo.. fixed.

[Weeny Machine]

You annoy people with a premade in a pug queue...and now you complain about the inconvenience of having to wait for a longer time...sorry, no sympathy

[LordNothing]

yea mm is a large set of tradeoffs and nobody can agree on which ones to go with. some want better matched skill, others (like me) want faster matches, others want balanced tonnage and others want team play. part of the problem with match making is trying to hit too many bases and ends up bad at all of them.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 July 2022 - 06:18 AM.

[Nightbird]

Weeny Machine, on 26 July 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

You annoy people with a premade in a pug queue...and now you complain about the inconvenience of having to wait for a longer time...sorry, no sympathy

They're hardly stomping pugs... The MM doesn't place groups, or anyone, correctly.

Edited by Nightbird, 26 July 2022 - 06:20 AM.

[w0qj]

Hey, welcome to MWO...

QP wait is completely OK for me and is quite fast, and not like what you've just described, at least for me...
(I prefer playing solo, and no QP queue wait time is entirely OK with me...)

Here are some pointers:

1. On the rare occasion that my QP wait is excessively long, I simply press [Cancel] and restart QP right away!
Usually works...

2. Select [LFG] (aka Looking For Group) before you start your QP queuing...

Hope this helps!

[BellatorMonk]

w0qj, on 26 July 2022 - 07:05 AM, said:

Hey, welcome to MWO...

QP wait is completely OK for me and is quite fast, and not like what you've just described, at least for me...
(I prefer playing solo, and no QP queue wait time is entirely OK with me...)

Here are some pointers:

1. On the rare occasion that my QP wait is excessively long, I simply press [Cancel] and restart QP right away!
Usually works...

2. Select [LFG] (aka Looking For Group) before you start your QP queuing...

Hope this helps!

What does option 2 do? Place you into a pre-made in a match as you Q up solo?

[crazytimes]

Warbrynger, on 24 July 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

Obviously - something has changed and I know something was mentioned in the July patch notes about fixing an issue with group queues.

As below- as soon as a 4 man is in queue, your 2 man can't get in.

Quote

Max Group Restrictions 5 means each team can have can have:

• one 4-player group, or
  
• one 2-player and one 3-player group, or
  
• two 2-player groups

Edited by crazytimes, 27 July 2022 - 01:16 AM.

[Dr Wubs]

All QP groups should drop in Tier 1.

Every game is stomp or get stomped.

So many of the people dropping in groups have crap attitudes and insult the teams they play on.

They frequently run LRM spotter builds that they wouldn't use if they were in higher tiers.

When the discussion of group drops in quickplay was happening, if someone said "Let's have tier 1 and 2 players farm tier 5 players", the outcome might have been different.

You have a distinct advantage dropping in a group, so go show what a mean bunch of hombres you are in tier 1.

[Bud Crue]

Dr Wubs, on 27 July 2022 - 08:03 AM, said:

So many of the people dropping in groups have crap attitudes and insult the teams they play on.

They frequently run LRM spotter builds that they wouldn't use if they were in higher tiers.

When the discussion of group drops in quickplay was happening, if someone said "Let's have tier 1 and 2 players farm tier 5 players", the outcome might have been different.

You have a distinct advantage dropping in a group, so go show what a mean bunch of hombres you are in tier 1.

You clearly don't play when I am playing. The vast majority of groups I encounter when I play do not communicate at all. Likewise, the vast majority of groups I encounter are not tier 1 material (mine included, though with brawling making a return thanks to the SPPC buffs, many of us are climbing back up there). Honestly, most groups I see in game are running themes and they are just as likely to s**t the bed as be successful (for awhile, so many groups running HMG Vipers, now it seems to be Gauss and L-Gauss Gridirons, though still plenty of Crusader groups).

Edit: what's "LRM spotter builds"...like are you seeing groups running all Ravens or something?

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 July 2022 - 08:26 AM.

[1Exitar1]

I agree that it is taking longer to find matches. There are times when I can sit there for a full 2 minutes before a match starts.

[Dr Wubs]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2022 - 08:24 AM, said:

You clearly don't play when I am playing. The vast majority of groups I encounter when I play do not communicate at all. Likewise, the vast majority of groups I encounter are not tier 1 material (mine included, though with brawling making a return thanks to the SPPC buffs, many of us are climbing back up there). Honestly, most groups I see in game are running themes and they are just as likely to s**t the bed as be successful (for awhile, so many groups running HMG Vipers, now it seems to be Gauss and L-Gauss Gridirons, though still plenty of Crusader groups).

Edit: what's "LRM spotter builds"...like are you seeing groups running all Ravens or something?

Sometimes the stomp happens without anyone talking.

Groups often communicate on Discord.

It's easy peasy to identify most group drops because they all have the same unit tags or maybe one has a different unit tag.

1 or 2 LRMboats with 2-3 light narcers/spotters, ravens sometimes but not exclusively.

Happens regularly. Had one of them bragging about getting 1700 in a mad cat LRM boat.

I don't care if they're tier 1 material. They talk trash like they're MWO gods.

Get them out of the lower levels. I play multiple accounts. One is more trying to min max, and the other is for experimenting.

Tier 4 and 5 are the worst, and they are not tier 4 and 5 players.

But let's entertain the idea that they're not tier 1. Then the group loads into whatever level the highest tiered player is in the group.

Disclaimer: There are people who can run groups and help the entire team without acting like complete turnips, but the rate of encountering those people is about the same as finding a competent shotcaller in all-solo play back when the solo queue was the solo queue and not the farming queue.

Edited by Dr Wubs, 27 July 2022 - 10:22 AM.

[Heavy Money]

Warbrynger, on 24 July 2022 - 07:42 AM, said:

We have been playing steady since May 2022. We have three to four people on each night but have had several occasions with just two players to start the night. For May and June, we have had absolutely no problem at all getting into a match within 60 seconds. Two man, three man, four man - did not matter, under 60 seconds.

Since the July patch, we have now noticed the following:

1 man = under 60 seconds.

2 man = typically more than 5 minutes (after you get a beer, use the bathroom, and surf reddit, you get kind of annoyed at the wait - who wants to play for 10 minutes and then wait for another 10 to get a match).

3 man = under 1 minute average (never has taken more than 2 minutes to find a match)

4 man = under 1 minute average (never more than 2 minutes to find a match)


Obviously - something has changed and I know something was mentioned in the July patch notes about fixing an issue with group queues. I am not sure if the current status is a "fix" as it makes it hard to want to play MWO until the full group is able to get online. And sometimes, by then, we are having fun doing something else (another game).

Does PGI know about this unique issue that was "fixed" - I searched the forums and could only find a post from 2015 that I did not want to necro. There is definitely something different on the quick play queue now - we lived under 60 seconds for two months with two man teams until the July patch.

Everyone else seems to be doing the usual whining about Groups, so I'll actually answer your question:

The two months before the matchmaker had some different settings due to implementation of the Event Queue. These weren't really supposed to be the way they were for those two months, and now they have been returned to normal. What this means is that there are now more restrictions on how many groups can be on the same side.

Basically, the matchmaker forms a lobby based around some players, and then fills it. I don't remember all the exact details, but usually it forms queues around 3 or 4 man groups (I'm not sure if it does this specifically, or ends up doing it because they cannot be fit into other lobbies due to group restrictions.) But basically what happens is you'll have a 3-4man group, it will make a lobby around it, it will try to put another 3-4 man group on the other side, and then it fills the rest out. It tries not to have situations where there is a group on one side but not the other (but will allow them eventually if time is bad enough, iirc.)

So, once it has a group on each side, if there are other groups in the queue, they cannot be added to the match. The exception is if it is a 2 or 3 person group. Then it can place another 2 person group on the same side. Otherwise, they are stuck waiting.

So, queue times can be bad for 3-4 person groups because they are stuck waiting for a lobby to be formed around them, or to be matched against another 3-4 person group. And times can be REALLY bad for 2 person groups because it generally will not form a lobby around them as quickly as it will a 3-4 person group. And it cannot put them with a 4 person group at all. And it won't put them against a 4 person quickly. So they are kind of stuck waiting for a lobby formed around a 3 person group that has a 3-4 on the other side already, or for enough time to pass that they will get a lobby formed around them or be put against a 4 person group.

What has been different before that just got fixed is that it COULD put multiple groups on the same side. You could have 2 3-4mans per team, or a 4+2. This massively improved the situation for 2 person groups. And now it has been put back to usual, and it kind of sucks.

(I may have gotten some details wrong, but that is the general gist of it.)

As you can see, a lot of people are salty about groups in QP being allowed at all. But their complaints are mostly about the perceived impact of 4 person groups. Outside a few incredibly high tier 4 mans, there isn't much data supporting the idea. And it is silly to complain about in regards to 2 person groups anyway.

If it is any consolation, once you're in t1, queue times are rough for groups of any size because it is trying to match you against other high tier players, and there are less of those. (Groups get matched based on the average of their tier). This also means you'll often fight against the same premade on the other side multiple times. This can be annoying and is not ideal. But you do get to know people, and you get forced to actually practice against good players. (Its also fun when you all have each other's Discords and can drop in between matches.)

EDIT: Also, PGI is aware of this issue. It is like this as a compromise to allow groups in the queue without letting them totally take it over, and without them penalizing match time for solos. Obviously this situation isn't ideal. There used to be separate solo and group queues, but changes to population size necessitated merging them. Pop is higher now than then, and there is a lot of debate in the community over splitting them again (but little data to inform either side.)

PGI is looking at improving the match maker in general, which will hopefully fix these issues. The current MM has lots of problems (but not some it used to, lol.) There is a detailed proposal to improve things that may be getting implemented, but since its a matter of actual engineer/dev time, we don't have a good idea when anything may happen in that regard. They've gotten Event Queue sorted out now, so perhaps that will come next.

Edited by Heavy Money, 27 July 2022 - 12:22 PM.

[VeeOt Dragon]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2022 - 08:24 AM, said:

Edit: what's "LRM spotter builds"...like are you seeing groups running all Ravens or something?

since the main question on why things are the way they are with the match maker i figured i would answer this question since it is quick and easy enough.

an LRM spotter build is usually but not always a Light mech that is carrying a TAG and or NARC unit but not carrying LRMs itself. they usually spot and target for bigger slower LRM boats using the support equipment to help out their teammates in getting locks (helps enormously with IDF). it is a risky choice in quickplay since you don't know if there will even be an LRM boat, let alone a competent one to take advantage of its help. thats why you more often see them in groups since they can coordinate before the matchi making sure someone in the group is running an LRM boat. as someone who often plays LRM when my hand tremors are acting up i much appreciate them and will always voice my thanks over chat.

Edited by VeeOt Dragon, 28 July 2022 - 10:35 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

I play pretty much exclusively solo and have noticed longer matchmaking wait times. I go for the lower % weight class and it still takes awhile to get in. I find I manage to get in faster if I cancel the MM search then start again.

[Jon Gotham]

Weeny Machine, on 26 July 2022 - 06:15 AM, said:

You annoy people with a premade in a pug queue...and now you complain about the inconvenience of having to wait for a longer time...sorry, no sympathy

Dear god, are you people STILL going on about this?
Every other game I play like this online ahs groups and solos mixed, no one complains. It's NORMAL to group up.
Having a dedicated super solo queue is not normal for an online team based game.
You annoy me by whining about people wanting to use teamwork in an online teamwork based game.
When will this dross EVER end?

[BellatorMonk]

It will end once the Nascar races end.

[Heavy Money]

BellatorMonk, on 01 August 2022 - 11:23 AM, said:

It will end once the Nascar races end.

Nascar is greatly reduced in the past year, and doesn't specifically have anything to do with groups.

[BellatorMonk]

It feels like sarcasm is a lost science these days.