55 replies to this topic

[evil kerensky]

RickySpanish, on 14 August 2022 - 03:03 PM, said:

The state of the game has undeniably improved. I think it's probably the best it has ever been.

not a high bar

[Alstren]

Im just gonna be the jerk here and say NO HECK NO NO NO NO DO NOT ENCOURAGE GAME COMPANIES TO GET GREEDY AND SHAMELESS! Diablo Immortal is NOT a good business model. And even suggesting it makes me immediately suspicious of your motives. The problem with MWO is player pop not money if you turn this game into a pay to win nightmare I and many others will simply quit and the game will die.

Id love to have old players coming back but if you just want to win by spending stupid amounts of money on a video game then there are MANY other games out there.

[Xeno Phalcon]

That was tried with gold mechs and MC consumables (And MW5 year exclusive on epic) - this playerbase is too small for a scorched earth approach that blizzard-activision used to enjoy before they burnt too much of their own players.

We do not forget, we do not forgive.

[C E Dwyer]

People in chat have been predicting this game would be dead in two years time, since year three.

It's now comming up for year nine.

In year five I predicted this game would be shut down by year seven.

There are lots of ways they can save money, before they close down for good.

I think this game grinds on, in its present form, with no worries about closing unlit both the Asian and the European servers close.

once this game runs just on the US servers for everything, then there may be some substance to closing down in X months time ..

Until then play and enjoy, or play and grumble.

Edit for an after thought.

as I mentioned this game is nearly nine

Marvel Avengers isn't two years old it's just been sold up as a failure..

A game developed by a well know company, a well known publisher.

Developing a game with one of the biggest most popular francxhise with a fan base of millions, the same questions are being asked, of this one, how long before it closes..

This game nearly nine and that is nine years live not beta ..just a niche game with niche fan numbers..

Many in this community have attacked P.G.I for being useless..I was one of them.

Retrospectively they have done a ******* good job keeping a game alive, keeping a hard core of the fan base engaged, even if that engagement was to be told by us, how crap they were at making games.

They never gave up.

And no i'm not saying sorry for the soon to be redacted word

Edited by C E Dwyer, 18 August 2022 - 03:37 AM.

[w0qj]

The tone in the MWO forums could be more positive sometimes...

Hey, MWO 9th Anniversary is fast coming up, and we actually have a shot at achieving 10th Anniversary hopefully !!
Not too many online games can boast the same unfortunately...

I suspect that player demographics might show that MWO Mech Dad's are slightly older than other online game franchises... and MWO playerbase is more loyal to Battletech/MechWarrior franchise...

Whilst there would always be F2P players around, those actually ponying up for premium mech packs might have deeper pockets than those in other online game franchises... now hold this thought...

Edited by w0qj, 18 August 2022 - 05:59 AM.

[martian]

Xeno Phalcon, on 17 August 2022 - 06:11 PM, said:

That was tried with gold mechs and MC consumables (And MW5 year exclusive on epic) - this playerbase is too small for a scorched earth approach that blizzard-activision used to enjoy before they burnt too much of their own players.

We do not forget, we do not forgive.

Golden 'Mechs were as strong as their non-golden Clan counterparts. Also, MC consumables did not differ much from their C-Bill counterparts.

[TheCaptainJZ]

w0qj, on 18 August 2022 - 04:16 AM, said:

Hey, MWO 9th Anniversary is fast coming up, and we actually have a shot at achieving 10th Anniversary hopefully !!
Not too many online games can boast the same unfortunately...

10 years ago this month I signed up for Closed Beta. I got in in October I think.

C E Dwyer, on 18 August 2022 - 03:26 AM, said:

Many in this community have attacked P.G.I for being useless..I was one of them.

Retrospectively they have done a ******* good job keeping a game alive, keeping a hard core of the fan base engaged, even if that engagement was to be told by us, how crap they were at making games.

They never gave up.

Now there's a compliment you don't normally see.

To be real though, the devotion of the player base, and just the simple fun of the core gameplay, is what has lived on. People diss on PGI heavily and they definitely did make missteps, but I think given the size of their team, they put out the best product they were capable of making. If they had more people, and maybe if they had chosen a different engine, maybe more of the original vision would have been realized but that's water under the bridge now. There are clearly some people at PGI that truly love the franchise and IP and the art improvement was the best contribution they have made. It let to a small revival of Battletech, including, well, the HBS BattleTech game. They confronted Harmony Gold in court and won the ability to use unseen mechs.

[Andrewlik]

martian, on 18 August 2022 - 06:05 AM, said:

Golden 'Mechs were as strong as their non-golden Clan counterparts. Also, MC consumables did not differ much from their C-Bill counterparts.

They got a similar thing going with Platinum mechs now. Basically the same thing as their standard variants except cool skin (that can be applied to all mechs of that chassis) and +30 chills like a hero
Similar thing in the way that it's equally low effort, but these platinum packs are actually a good deal

[martian]

Andrewlik, on 18 August 2022 - 10:50 AM, said:

They got a similar thing going with Platinum mechs now. Basically the same thing as their standard variants except cool skin (that can be applied to all mechs of that chassis) and +30 chills like a hero
Similar thing in the way that it's equally low effort, but these platinum packs are actually a good deal

You paid for the uniqueness of the golden 'Mechs.

[The Mandolorian]

This is the way

[martian]

The Mandolorian, on 18 August 2022 - 10:22 PM, said:

This is the way

What "exactly" is "the way"?

[Tyman4]

Alstren, on 17 August 2022 - 05:19 PM, said:

Im just gonna be the jerk here and say NO HECK NO NO NO NO DO NOT ENCOURAGE GAME COMPANIES TO GET GREEDY AND SHAMELESS! Diablo Immortal is NOT a good business model. And even suggesting it makes me immediately suspicious of your motives. The problem with MWO is player pop not money if you turn this game into a pay to win nightmare I and many others will simply quit and the game will die.

Id love to have old players coming back but if you just want to win by spending stupid amounts of money on a video game then there are MANY other games out there.

But would they even care? I haven't been in this game for at least...4 years? maybe more...
I know I haven't spent a bent nickel since after faction play first dropped.
I'm not keeping this game going. I've already moved on. If they develop MWO 2 or fix mechwarrior 6 I would come back.
But they are determined to keep riding this dead horse. I can see the fall off in my friends list, 90+% of which haven't logged in for > 1 year.

I mean seriously...people say that it's improved...
You are wrong.
I STILL have rendering issues where the terrain keeps changing shape and color as I approach it.
I STILL have hidden terrain hit boxes
I STILL crash every 5-10 games
I STILL crash if I alt+tab out of the game too many times
I STILL have ghost heat
I STILL have ecm and radar derp
I STILL have neutered clans
I STILL have no revive game mode or objective game mode (except conquest sometimes)
I STILL have no repair rearm
I STILL have basically no good joystick option
I STILL have no significant cockpit simulation
I STILL have no other targets or challenges beside mechs

seriously...This was a fabulous game when it came out. But they need to write down their lessons learned and move on. Preferably toward the simulation side of this game instead of the chest hi wall area shooter side...

[Alstren]

Tyman4, on 19 August 2022 - 12:49 AM, said:

But would they even care? I haven't been in this game for at least...4 years? maybe more...
I know I haven't spent a bent nickel since after faction play first dropped.
I'm not keeping this game going. I've already moved on. If they develop MWO 2 or fix mechwarrior 6 I would come back.
But they are determined to keep riding this dead horse. I can see the fall off in my friends list, 90+% of which haven't logged in for > 1 year.

I mean seriously...people say that it's improved...
You are wrong.
I STILL have rendering issues where the terrain keeps changing shape and color as I approach it.
I STILL have hidden terrain hit boxes
I STILL crash every 5-10 games
I STILL crash if I alt+tab out of the game too many times
I STILL have ghost heat
I STILL have ecm and radar derp
I STILL have neutered clans
I STILL have no revive game mode or objective game mode (except conquest sometimes)
I STILL have no repair rearm
I STILL have basically no good joystick option
I STILL have no significant cockpit simulation
I STILL have no other targets or challenges beside mechs

seriously...This was a fabulous game when it came out. But they need to write down their lessons learned and move on. Preferably toward the simulation side of this game instead of the chest hi wall area shooter side...

Do you have any idea how destructive to the game it would be if someone could pay 1000$ for a ppc that does twice the damage with no heat build up? Thats a horrendous idea.

The rendering issues are the cry engines fault they would need to change engine to fix it which would require remakeing the entire game from the ground up.
Ill ceede that the terrain hitboxes are stupid and annoying.
The crashing in both cases is on your end.
Ghost heat is needed to prevent the game being ruined by one shot builds like I dont know a annihilator with 7 snub ppcs deleting you in one shot rather than you having a chance to react.
Radar derp can easily be tweaked to be less strong granted.
If the Clans were op compaired to IS mechs no one would ever play IS mechs.
There is a revive game mode its called event que and it shows up periodically and is actually really fun.
Why do you want a repair system? it would just waste cbills and increase the games grind for the immersion of having a window that says you owe money?
Are you seriously gonna play a competitive online arena shooter with a joystick? If this was MW5 Id understand whole heartedly.
Elaborate on the cockpit simulaition because that one I kinda agree its under utilized.
By no other challenges Im assuming you mean unlockable stuff? because we have events that run every month now other than that I dont really see what you want.

I do agree the only way to "fix" the game is to make a new game mostly due to the cry engine being awful. But that game would be doomed to failure if PGI burnt its customer base to the ground with hyper aggressive monetization.

Edited by Alstren, 19 August 2022 - 04:04 AM.

[MyriadDigits]

Tyman4, on 19 August 2022 - 12:49 AM, said:

But would they even care? I haven't been in this game for at least...4 years? maybe more...
I know I haven't spent a bent nickel since after faction play first dropped.
I'm not keeping this game going. I've already moved on. If they develop MWO 2 or fix mechwarrior 6 I would come back.
But they are determined to keep riding this dead horse. I can see the fall off in my friends list, 90+% of which haven't logged in for > 1 year.

I mean seriously...people say that it's improved...
You are wrong.
I STILL have rendering issues where the terrain keeps changing shape and color as I approach it.
I STILL have hidden terrain hit boxes
I STILL crash every 5-10 games
I STILL crash if I alt+tab out of the game too many times
I STILL have ghost heat
I STILL have ecm and radar derp
I STILL have neutered clans
I STILL have no revive game mode or objective game mode (except conquest sometimes)
I STILL have no repair rearm
I STILL have basically no good joystick option
I STILL have no significant cockpit simulation
I STILL have no other targets or challenges beside mechs

seriously...This was a fabulous game when it came out. But they need to write down their lessons learned and move on. Preferably toward the simulation side of this game instead of the chest hi wall area shooter side...

Dude, just go play MechWarrior 5. Its clear that a lot of the necessary balance decisions for a PVP mech vs mech shooter aren't for you.

Mechwarrior 5 has fantastic features for you such as:

A more stable game engine.
No ghost heat.
No Radar Derp or Radar Retention, and ECM is incredibly rare.
Clantech (in the mods that add it) is flat better than its IS counterparts.
Objectives are the only way to complete missions.
Repairing mechs between missions is part of the gameplay loop.
Significantly better joystick support, including aim assist for when you realize joysticks aren't better than mouse.
Plenty of tanks, VTOLs, turrets, and parking garages to shoot.

Everything you asked for, all neatly packaged in a gameplay environment it actually makes sense for.

Edited by MyriadDigits, 19 August 2022 - 03:29 PM.

[Tyman4]

Alstren, on 19 August 2022 - 04:02 AM, said:

Do you have any idea how destructive to the game it would be if someone could pay 1000$ for a ppc that does twice the damage with no heat build up? Thats a horrendous idea.

The rendering issues are the cry engines fault they would need to change engine to fix it which would require remakeing the entire game from the ground up.
Ill ceede that the terrain hitboxes are stupid and annoying.
The crashing in both cases is on your end.
Ghost heat is needed to prevent the game being ruined by one shot builds like I dont know a annihilator with 7 snub ppcs deleting you in one shot rather than you having a chance to react.
Radar derp can easily be tweaked to be less strong granted.
If the Clans were op compaired to IS mechs no one would ever play IS mechs.
There is a revive game mode its called event que and it shows up periodically and is actually really fun.
Why do you want a repair system? it would just waste cbills and increase the games grind for the immersion of having a window that says you owe money?
Are you seriously gonna play a competitive online arena shooter with a joystick? If this was MW5 Id understand whole heartedly.
Elaborate on the cockpit simulaition because that one I kinda agree its under utilized.
By no other challenges Im assuming you mean unlockable stuff? because we have events that run every month now other than that I dont really see what you want.

I do agree the only way to "fix" the game is to make a new game mostly due to the cry engine being awful. But that game would be doomed to failure if PGI burnt its customer base to the ground with hyper aggressive monetization.

Like I said, more destructive to the "player base" than what? The astounding lack of players already in here? I'm in T3 and I regularly match with the same people day to day and I've only been reinstalled for like a week. What exactly are they missing out on? They cannot grow the game of playerbase to anything like it was 10 years ago by maintaining the same game. Especially with the unfixable or design components that aren't worth the time and money to fix. They need to move on to a new game. MWO2 or something.

I don't have to pay 1000$ for that. I can just drop in an assault, because the heat scalling is completely borked up. Shoutout, who remembers the 9 ppc direwolf!

Yes, I know, the rendering is an issue with the engine. They need to just move on.

Lol, nice to know idiots can diagnose my computer from across the world without even seeing anything. No dipstick, it's an upgraded computer in every component to what I used to run MWO on stably for WEEKS at a time. This is 100% due to the steam rework and patches. I literally never used to have this issue, and that was nearly a decade ago.

OMG...the forums never change. Ghost heat was stupid when it was launched and is still stupid today. Instead of punishing people for what appears to be a perfectly legitimate use of their hardpoints and tonnage, give them a reason not to so this. Easiest is to remove the insane weapon convergence (which again has been a problem from day 1.

Yeah, and no one would fly a P-51 into a modern combat zone. Duh. Why you think the table top has like 2-3 IS mechs per clan mech. A perfect chance to pit respawning IS mechs vs repairing clanners. Theres about 1000 ways people have posted to try and balance IS vs Clan without just nerfing clan or buffing IS. They just ignored them. This decision seriously degrades the actual immersion in Clan vs IS and a major part of the tone and feel of the games.

I want repair in the game because it gave people are reason to use cheaper equipment. If I am a new player and I want to bank C-bills to buy the mech I really want, then give me a cheapo mech where repair and rearm are minimal so I can maximize my gain. They used to have this. But people wanted to only drop their top tech atlas and drive it directly into 6 enemies without any repercussion. Again, give life to the actual mech stable you have.

Are you seriously going to bring a mouse and keyboard to a tank fight? a jet fight? Again, missing the point. Mechwarrior has never been and should never be fortnight.

The cockpit used to be one of the funnest things about old mechwarrior. Did you ever get to try one of those Pod cockpits they set up? It's like a driving chair for Forza. Honestly, I think they should go all out on VR with it. It would make an awesome simulator.

Sorry, no I meant VTOLs, tanks, infantry, elementals, aerospace fighters...all the rest of the combined arms of battletech.

Edited by Tyman4, 19 August 2022 - 05:56 PM.

[Tyman4]

MyriadDigits, on 19 August 2022 - 03:28 PM, said:

Dude, just go play MechWarrior 5. Its clear that a lot of the necessary balance decisions for a PVP mech vs mech shooter aren't for you.

Mechwarrior 5 has fantastic features for you such as:

A more stable game engine.
No ghost heat.
No Radar Derp or Radar Retention, and ECM is incredibly rare.
Clantech (in the mods that add it) is flat better than its IS counterparts.
Objectives are the only way to complete missions.
Repairing mechs between missions is part of the gameplay loop.
Significantly better joystick support, including aim assist for when you realize joysticks aren't better than mouse.
Plenty of tanks, VTOLs, turrets, and parking garages to shoot.

Everything you asked for, all neatly packaged in a gameplay environment it actually makes sense for.

necessary balance my ***. There's been thousands of people in these very forums with better ideas for balancing that is actually in line with the IP. Instead of caving to IS whiners. The whole point of the clan invasion being stalled was purely logistics, manufacturing base, and clan politics. ALL of which are available to have a balance system based on it. ALL of which were ignored so we could get the great quirkening...

lol...the game where enemies spawn no more than 700m away from thin air? where everything from sound to graphics to firing mechanics to effects needs to be modded? That was the biggest money grab by a desperate group of people I've ever seen. Pathetic really.

But it does show a pretty good view of why PGI doesn't seem to get mechwarrior as a theme or game. 1 of the reasons Battletech by hairbrain was such a resounding success. Comparatively anyway.

[MyriadDigits]

Tyman4, on 19 August 2022 - 06:08 PM, said:

necessary balance my ***. There's been thousands of people in these very forums with better ideas for balancing that is actually in line with the IP. Instead of caving to IS whiners. The whole point of the clan invasion being stalled was purely logistics, manufacturing base, and clan politics. ALL of which are available to have a balance system based on it. ALL of which were ignored so we could get the great quirkening...

Balance is primarily geared towards Quick Play. Quick Play, as may be revealed by its name, is meant to be a way for the casual player to get in a quick few matches. Short matches, and short queues are beneficial to this goal.

The two ways to get queue times down is either have a massive population (good luck), or to have looser limits on matchmaking. This is where the core issue with lore-based balancing is in this game. Lore-based balancing would require lore-based matchmaking to make sense, which might sound good on paper, but its completely annihilated in the face of reality.

In a game with options, people like to play what they choose. Some players prefer a particular faction, others may prefer a particular weight class, or particular mech. Being softlocked out of their favorite mech for the rest of their free time that day because of a bad match isn't fun, its insult to injury. Not being able to play their favorite mech because the queue is overloaded in that mech's faction isn't fun (an issue those who've played Faction Play are very familiar with). Not being able to play the shiny new mech they just spent 60 dollars on because half the queue is trying to play the very same mech isn't fun. Having to leave this long queue to do something else because they no longer have 30-45 minutes in an objective focused game mode with respawns, is incredibly dissatisfying. Finally getting a match, only to be immediately sent back to the mechbay because a 70-90 PPFLD alpha deleted your CT from 3 times the range of your own guns isn't fun. Even less fun if that was your cheapo bot that you were only running because you can't even afford to run your favorite, the non-contribution setting you back even further from being able to play the mech you actually like.

There's a reason PGI removed repair and rearm, and its because most players don't hate themselves.

There's a reason PGI added ghost heat, to protect the playerbase from itself.

There's a reason PGI removed tonnage balancing, because it made queues too long.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tyman4, on 19 August 2022 - 06:08 PM, said:

The whole point of the clan invasion being stalled was purely logistics, manufacturing base, and clan politics. ALL of which are available to have a balance system based on it. ALL of which were ignored so we could get the great quirkening...

This is an arena team shooter. Anything outside of that mechanic is going to be busted. Why? Because penalizing players for playing the game is against a games interest unless your some crappy pay-to-play mobile game. This isn't EVE and it never was going to be EVE.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 August 2022 - 08:44 PM.

[martian]

Tyman4, on 19 August 2022 - 06:08 PM, said:

The whole point of the clan invasion being stalled was purely logistics, manufacturing base, and clan politics.

The Clans were stopped in the battle of Tukayyid in 3052. The Com Guards with their IS technology defeated the Clan invasion.

[Akamia Terizen]

The nuances of Operation REVIVAL and its halting at Tukayyid are interesting, but outside the scope of this thread I think. There's a whole subforum for talking about BT lore in depth. One thing I will say for sure is that it wasn't "purely" logistics, manufacturing, and politics that contributed to the Clan loss at Tukayyid, though it did weigh the scale heavily in that battle.

At the end of the day, I would rather not have pay-to-win mechanics introduced into this, or any other MechWarrior game. I for one would love it to have been closer to tabletop, myself, but with the format of the game, there are certain sacrifices that had to be made. Clantech got nerfed. That's something I can live with, especially given the circumstances. I don't play Clantech because of its strength. Though it certainly helped once I learned how strong it actually is.

By and large, I'm happy with where the game is right now. I would love more content after the Crusader, but it seems the game is running on what barely even counts as a skeleton crew, so that may not happen for some time, if ever again. I'll keep playing until I can't anymore.

I would adore a game that's basically the EVE Online or Elite: Dangerous of the BattleTech franchise, though. Maybe that would give me everything I actually want out of the franchise, or almost everything anyway. I doubt a game like that could exist under the MechWarrior brand specifically, though.

Oh well. A guy can dream.

Edited by Akamia Terizen, 19 August 2022 - 10:59 PM.