19 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

Quote

GAMEPLAY TWEAKS

• Innersphere LRMs now fire in a single salvo regardless of the launcher tube count (e.g., HBK-4J, AS7 when firing LRM15-20)

That's, what happens, when it's easier for devs to completely remove immersion-based mechanic, than add small tip to their UI. I liked Smurfy exactly for this. Because info about missile tubes was provided. Dunno, why it isn't in default game's UI.

[Knownswift]

Bad mechanic.

Good change.

[caravann]

Them made changes to mech in the past as example Raven having a single tube. The reason behind the changes is that they don't have the manpower to add the changes to all mechs. There are many other examples as how laser hardpoints are able to be replaced with ppc since there's an animation or how mechs design is locked based on animations. It was never a feature but a mechanical limitation based on limited designs. Only in mechwarrior are LRM firing based on amount of tubes. The mechs used have a canon set of guns but LRM didn't fired less tubes when installed on a mech. Energy is a key factor for mechs. If it can't support the firing system it will brownout. This mechanic is butchered since what was supposed to be energy management is instead heat management. The weapon doesn't increase in heat but the mech demand energy from the fusion engine. When adding weapons the energy drops. Heatsinks reduce heat as the fusion engine enters override. Not only does the fusion engine power the mech itself but even autocannons are relying on it.

[Curccu]

Faster to remove this silly old feature than change each and every IS missile slot tube count to 20... Atlas and X5 got this treatment long time ago.

[feeWAIVER]

It was a good mechanic to count your tubes to know how many could fire.
It was a nice attention to detail.

I understand why it was changed.. but nonetheless, it's kind of sad that it was.

[D V Devnull]

Perhaps, everyone, it is time for the LRM List to finally get some changes for Quality-Of-Life improvements in gameplay here? Instead of only...

• Clan LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range

...which currently exists in the game, maybe we need to expand this into...

• Clan LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range

...as to then give both sides of the fence some choice about how they wish to fire during a Match which the darned MatchMaker places them in, and also what they're willing to accept in how they apply their damage against opponents on the battlefields. Basically, both sides would have the choice of either going for Splat-Fire and getting as much Damage as possible at once while risking being under-run for Range in combat, or they can instead pick to Stream-Fire and accept the Missiles hitting one at a time while risking AMS wiping them out too easily and blocking a lot of their Damage while being able to fire within that annoying Minimum Range limiter at their discretion and allowing for decreased Damage being dealt.

Now, before anyone tries to nay-say about this, it happens that I need you to please keep in mind that doing this should realistically be nothing more than a little gentle bit of a copy-pasta with some rather minor syntax alterations and an absolute very scant few new internal identifier numbers. Put simply, we would only need a mere eight new internal identifier numbers when one includes the Ammo packs to be used, and only four if they can simply somehow re-use the Ammo packs which we already own & have for working with. Literally speaking, the entire catalog of current Launcher Models can be reused with absolutely zero modifications for all of this, and therefore makes things extremely simple to implement as it would also respect the modeling on the Mechs we currently have, unlike what will be happening with the I.S. LRM Splat-Fire systems which are being changed in about another day. Also, while it would mean there is bleedover from MW5's designs going into MWO happening, it also incurs an honestly nice backport of a newer idea into an older game, which would make a lot of people happy right now as I'm rather sure the increase in functionality & options would be welcomed greatly.

Of course, who knows... Maybe I'm just some absolute crazy maniacal insane radical who was simply trying to make everyone's collective existences a little better than they are now... That's even though I don't use the LRMs anymore unless I'm really feeling physically terrible & ruined IRL on a given day, which just is not that often right now.

~D. V. "would not know if a great idea about LRMs actually proposed forth from their poor mind" Devnull

[TheCaptainJZ]

It was kinda cool in the early days that different mechs had different tube counts and this affected how many missiles launched, but from a gameplay perspective and consistency I get why it was changed. The dynamic weapon mounts mostly resolved this. Clearly there were some outliers that I wasn't aware of. I do take issue with some of the dynamic weapon designs and how they look and play on mechs but that's a different discussion.

[MyriadDigits]

D V Devnull, on 22 August 2022 - 08:49 AM, said:

Perhaps, everyone, it is time for the LRM List to finally get some changes for Quality-Of-Life improvements in gameplay here? Instead of only...

• Clan LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range

...which currently exists in the game, maybe we need to expand this into...

• Clan LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• Clan LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Stream /w Soft Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM Splat /w Hard Min. Range
  
• I.S. LRM+Artemis Splat /w Hard Min. Range

Bloat issues aside, right now LRM balance sits at a balance of Quality (IS) vs Quantity (Clan). Clan can boat more missiles overall but IS has a better chance of getting their fewer missiles to the target.

If C-LRM could volley fire though, it would just outclass IS-LRM entirely.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

I'll consider your complaint as valid provided you promise to never whine about "Clans OP pls nerf"

Edited by S 0 L E N Y A, 22 August 2022 - 06:22 PM.

[LordNothing]

artefact of a time before they replaced their old minimally viable weapon model system for an equally minimally viable one, neglecting a few mechs in the process. it was probibly just a line item bug that they figured they could cross off without too much effort.

i dont think anyone was complaining about it, at least not publicly, until it showed up in the patch notes. its the kind of thing that requires severe ocd to even report. its actual effect on gameplay is totally negligible.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 August 2022 - 08:20 PM.

[MrMadguy]

What I tried to say, is that in MWO we moved away from old MW technical limitation and finally have things like "Number of beams = number of lasers". It would be just weird to see 'Mech with 10 tubes, that launches 20 missiles. Or hardpoints will be fixed too?

[caravann]

MrMadguy, on 22 August 2022 - 08:26 PM, said:

What I tried to say, is that in MWO we moved away from old MW technical limitation and finally have things like "Number of beams = number of lasers". It would be just weird to see 'Mech with 10 tubes, that launches 20 missiles. Or hardpoints will be fixed too?

What you see on the screen is animations. What happens in the game beyond the animations is calculations you can't see.
Hard Points are limitations because videogames have physics and each variation of a combination need an animation. It would be less time consuming to release a new mech than fixing hardpoints. Nobody complain how MRM fire 40 tubes when there's only 20

[PocketYoda]

I don't like it personally.. the stream seemed to do better hit registration.. the splat seems bad.. at least in 250+ ms.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nomad Tech, on 24 August 2022 - 04:20 PM, said:

I don't like it personally.. the stream seemed to do better hit registration.. the splat seems bad.. at least in 250+ ms.

Its a VERY good change if you're going to dumb-fire LRMs at something you can see but not lock.

[GoatHILL]

More vanilla crap to make the tators feel better about themselves.

[PocketYoda]

ScrapIron Prime, on 24 August 2022 - 05:22 PM, said:

Its a VERY good change if you're going to dumb-fire LRMs at something you can see but not lock.

I prefer to target myself than dumb firing. People are too busy cycling targets and padding damage in tier 4-3 to kill anything.

[D V Devnull]

MyriadDigits, on 22 August 2022 - 10:40 AM, said:

Bloat issues aside, right now LRM balance sits at a balance of Quality (IS) vs Quantity (Clan). Clan can boat more missiles overall but IS has a better chance of getting their fewer missiles to the target.

If C-LRM could volley fire though, it would just outclass IS-LRM entirely.

That's true if things are not made properly balanced with a change like what I'm suggesting. Obviously some numbers for Spread, Base Heat Generation, Cooldown, and Ghost Heat will all have to be reasonably configured in order to keep it properly balanced for everyone. For the note, I don't even know which kinds of LRM are equipped on Stock Loadouts in the Lore to the Mechs which have such to use. Right now, all I'm particularly thinking about is expanding the lineup so that people can have their choice in animations and attack methods to make their Mechs look right again, sort of like what I've seen in gameplay videos for "MechWarrior 5" but then including Clan Mechs as well. The only issue is that we need to get the process started in order to have any chance of these other LRM versions being done right in the game at all. Once it begins, all we need do is get it tuned right, then we're all happily on our way, and with everyone satisfied as much as is reasonably possible!!!

~D. V. "Yes, extra balancing work would need doing. That's not forgotten, even without other knowledge!" Devnull

[JediPanther]

Bit sad the raven can't stream out that lrm 20 now. Useless but funny. Ams would've shot all 20 just fine.

[ScrapIron Prime]

JediPanther, on 16 September 2022 - 05:48 PM, said:

Bit sad the raven can't stream out that lrm 20 now. Useless but funny. Ams would've shot all 20 just fine.

Ah yes, the 1 tube launcher for the NARC was hilarious when you put an LRM 15 on it.

[Vlads Brain]

This is a buff to IS mechs that had low amounts of visual tubes and screwed up their salvos. Works for me.

What also works for me is this. Heat was an issue on my fle-20 using er meds and this will help greatly there.

ENERGY WEAPONS
ER Medium Laser:

• Reduced heat to 3.8 (from 4)

Edited by Vlads Brain, 17 September 2022 - 12:48 AM.