66 replies to this topic

[sosegado]

Ok, so I've been playing for a while.
But length of playtime itself is no indication of how good you are or can be or even of expectations for you.

There's a big difference in knowing what to do and having the skills or reaction time to do what you need to do.

Which is where; I'm assuming; Tier is supposed to come in to play.

Let me give you a recent example.

I'm Tier 4. I drop in my assault and the team takes off. I don't even bother saying anything anymore, I'm just the overly beaten dog and I just follow and hope they can see on the mini map that they're leaving their assault behind. I have enough skill to protect myself for a short while if I get jumped by a light or two and I know how to ask for help if I really need it so I don't even care anymore. But then I hear on comms calling me out "keep up with the group or be food!"
This isn't the first time I've heard this but it made me wonder when can I expect that kind of idiocy to stop. The bonus was that he died 2nd, said his whole team was a$$ and dropped.

So....I come here to ask, when? T3? because I'll never make T2 or T1 so should I just resign myself to having this continue ad nauseam? I spent a lot of years in T5 just goofing around but
I was hoping that some expectation of basic competence and common decency would come from higher Tier play.

p.s. I'm not trying to play with better players, I want to play with better people if that makes sense?

Edited by Stab Wound, 02 September 2022 - 01:23 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I think you can get that kind of yolo'ing at any tier but less and less as you go up. Time of day also impacts the player pool you're stuck matching with. You might also consider playing different mechs that can go faster so you're better able to handle yourself without needing your team so much, at least sometimes for now, given the quality of your teammates. Tier 3 should be the most heavily populated tier.

[Uzi Foo]

I'm T1 and most players still gets fooled by my stealth atlas. The number of enemy teams I manage to "join" is hilariously high. So, compcompetence never gets that high.

Quick play is very much based on solo skill to be seccessful.

Your assault mech is too slow, 54 to 60 kph and never stop moving to keep up with team. Any thing slower you need dedicated support. I pilot the Atlas exclusively, and my T1 bar is always maxed out.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 02 September 2022 - 09:10 AM.

[caravann]

If they shoot the walls instead of the opponents you have found the secret tier 6

[Heavy Money]

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 08:41 AM, said:

Ok, so I've been playing for a while.
But length of playtime itself is no indication of how good you are or can be or even of expectations for you.

There's a big difference in knowing what to do and having the skills or reaction time to do what you need to do.

Which is where; I'm assuming; Tier is supposed to come in to play.

Let me give you a recent example.

I'm Tier 4. I drop in my assault and the team takes off. I don't even bother saying anything anymore, I'm just the overly beaten dog and I just follow and hope they can see on the mini map that they're leaving their assault behind. I have enough skill to protect myself for a short while if I get jumped by a light or two and I know how to ask for help if I really need it so I don't even care anymore. But then I hear on comms calling me out "keep up with the group or be food!"
This isn't the first time I've heard this but it made me wonder when can I expect that kind of idiocy to stop. The bonus was that he died 2nd, said his whole team was a$$ and dropped.

So....I come here to ask, when? T3? because I'll never make T2 or T1 so should I just resign myself to having this continue ad nauseam? I spent a lot of years in T5 just goofing around but
I was hoping that some expectation of basic competence and common decency would come from higher Tier play.

p.s. I'm not trying to play with better players, I want to play with better people if that makes sense?

Keep in mind that the matchmaker allows you to match with up to 2 tiers different from whoever the game is being formed around. What this generally means is that T5-3 play together, and T3-1 play together. Sometimes you'll have a game formed around a t3 player/group that has t5 and t1. But generally, there's 2 main groups.

So if you get into t3 and especially t2 things are different. Teams still make lots of common mistakes like rotating into the trench on Hibernal instead of holding the high ground, but it is noticeably better than lower tiers.

Remember that if you do good damage consistently, you should be able to rank up even on losses. Focus on achieving that.

[sosegado]

caravann, on 02 September 2022 - 09:20 AM, said:

If they shoot the walls instead of the opponents you have found the secret tier 6

12 months ago and 12 beers in (when I still drank) I would be guilty of this!

Ok, so what I guess I'm hearing is that the slow assaults are for the lower Tiers anyway so find a faster assault. No problem.

I've been wanting to go faster anyway.

I dropped with a faction play team a couple of months ago that taught me a Huge amount in just one day and got me very interested in training with heavies and remaking my drop deck so that it's correct. Thanks ccrider!

But my main point is when do the players you drop with start to understand basics like "stay together"
"fire on the same target" "use the consumables you brought" "fast mechs go cap/assault" without having to be prompted?

Is that even a thing?

Edited by Stab Wound, 02 September 2022 - 09:58 AM.

[R Valentine]

If there was a tier for basic competence, it would be sparsely populated. You find yolo idiots in all tiers, including tier 1. The reason these kind of people can make tier 1 is because half the time they're yoloing into idiots just as bad as they are, so it can actually work.

[caravann]

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 09:51 AM, said:

12 months ago and 12 beers in (when I still drank) I would be guilty of this!

Ok, so what I guess I'm hearing is that the slow assaults are for the lower Tiers anyway so find a faster assault. No problem.

I've been wanting to go faster anyway.

I dropped with a faction play team a couple of months ago that taught me a Huge amount in just one day and got me very interested in training with heavies and remaking my drop deck so that it's correct. Thanks ccrider!

But my main point is when do the players you drop with start to understand basics like "stay together"
"fire on the same target" "use the consumables you brought" "fast mechs go cap/assault" without having to be prompted?

Is that even a thing?

What happens most of the time is that three mech pilots team up but that doesn't help because at the left flank six mechs stomps through three mechs like it's nothing.

Another thing is that we can't tell tonnage on mechs and it's common for someone to tag along with the scout early in the game.

Actually getting information on a spotted mech is hard. Even harder for new players. The paperdoll is hard to understand without knowing what each color means and some are both red and both yellow.

The demand of assistance is hard for players to understand since all hear it when it's only used to ask help from light mechs to deal with light mechs and provide a spotter. A heavy mech is simply not fast enough to respond on a call.

Ask for help is negated as spotted targets aren't verified to the team. I might seen an assault or three assault closing in but without information all the ammunition I can provide is that there's a mech there and even if they know it's an assault it doesn't say what equipment.

Veteran players look at the map than on the main windscreen, veteran players look at the paperdoll and aim for the rear.
Trust in the instruments or else you might as well close your eyes.

[feeWAIVER]

You can tell your teams tonnage on your minimap.
Lights, Mediums, Heavies, and Assaults each have their own icon.

[Gasboy]

When I see an assault on its own at the start of a match, I'll escort it to try and keep lights off of it. At least they will have advance notice on someone coming up behind.

Once we're back with the main group, or combat has been joined, I do what I gotta do, so sometimes the assault is on their own at that point.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Gasboy, on 02 September 2022 - 11:03 AM, said:

When I see an assault on its own at the start of a match, I'll escort it to try and keep lights off of it. At least they will have advance notice on someone coming up behind.

Once we're back with the main group, or combat has been joined, I do what I gotta do, so sometimes the assault is on their own at that point.

And "Protected Medium" adds up to match score as long as you get your licks in. In absence of organized tactics, this is a good tactic.

[sosegado]

ScrapIron Prime, on 02 September 2022 - 11:33 AM, said:

And "Protected Medium" adds up to match score as long as you get your licks in. In absence of organized tactics, this is a good tactic.

So what triggers "protected" status? Is it an invisible aura around the assault? I've picked this up before in my lights and meds for the same reason but never understood why.

Is it just the "team" dynamic of being around a friendly when it's a big hairy furball of a scrum?
That makes it the most basic of basics...and it's all around valuable. So why do pilots actually run away from free matchscore points and sacrifice their slower friendlies at the same time? It makes no sense.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 12:01 PM, said:

So what triggers "protected" status? Is it an invisible aura around the assault? I've picked this up before in my lights and meds for the same reason but never understood why.

Is it just the "team" dynamic of being around a friendly when it's a big hairy furball of a scrum?
That makes it the most basic of basics...and it's all around valuable. So why do pilots actually run away from free matchscore points and sacrifice their slower friendlies at the same time? It makes no sense.

Being within X meters of a heavy or assault on your team gives the bonus. It adds up to a few dozen points of match score if you escort a big boy (say by providing them ECM cover) the whole match. Its possibly the best "now that's TACTICS!" score boost in the game.

https://mwomercs.com...tch-notes-13345
Protected Light:

• Be in a light 'Mech.
  
• Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
  
• Both are engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

Protected Medium:

• Be in a medium 'Mech.
  
• Stay close to a 'Mech that is at least 2 weight classes higher.
  
• Both are engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 8 seconds.

Protect Proximity:

• Staying in a radius of 150 meters to a damaged friendly 'Mech (critical damage).
  
• Be engaged.
  
• Reward occurs every 10 seconds if not interrupted.

[Saved By The Bell]

I looked some DATA videos so... full Tier 1 at max is a good

Edited by Saved By The Bell, 02 September 2022 - 12:22 PM.

[Void Angel]

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 08:41 AM, said:

p.s. I'm not trying to play with better players, I want to play with better people if that makes sense?

To someone who has played League of Legends, it makes perfect sense. Ditto for someone who's been so frustrated at player behaviors he wrote a guide about it. (Actually, two - they're in my signature now that I think about it. But the one I linked in particular was borne out of a frustration with bad play in my matches - I decided to channel it into something constructive in order to avoid going insane with wrath.) But what you're describing isn't typical of my experience in MWO, even at Tier3, so take heart!

Also, don't assume that you'll never make t2 or t1. Years ago, one of the best players I've known in this game told me that the thing that truly separates the best from the rest isn't reflexes, or fine motor control - it's practice, and study, to practice right. Sure, there are people who do that and have great reflexes, or a mind for the game, but they're rare, and not the only people in Tier 1.

[Knownswift]

You can get tier one just by standing in the right place and shooting the red while in not bad and not bracket build.

Edited by Knownswift, 02 September 2022 - 01:52 PM.

[Ihlrath]

caravann, on 02 September 2022 - 09:20 AM, said:

If they shoot the walls instead of the opponents you have found the secret tier 6

I feel personally called out by this post.....

*Sad trombone noise*

[crazytimes]

Above mid tier 3 is above average.

You may not like the play style, and it may offend you that people dare play "meta", or have found a happy meme theme that works for them, but if they're above that level then they are above average competence.

I am absolutely terrible at aiming, I can't lead long range PPC or dakka for the life of me, I have the reaction speed of a snail on valium, and I regularly play memes because I find them entertaining. My Ice Ferret is one of my most enjoyable mechs, and my raven does most of its damage by accidentally ramming my own team.

Your main goal should be fun. If you're not having fun... then don't play.

[XenoWraith]

Honestly by tier 4 I expect people to be able to read a map. By tier 3 I expect people to understand the concept of comms. You’ll be surprised how many players make it there with neither understood.

[sosegado]

Void Angel, on 02 September 2022 - 01:34 PM, said:

To someone who has played League of Legends, it makes perfect sense. Ditto for someone who's been so frustrated at player behaviors he wrote a guide about it. (Actually, two - they're in my signature now that I think about it. But the one I linked in particular was borne out of a frustration with bad play in my matches - I decided to channel it into something constructive in order to avoid going insane with wrath.) But what you're describing isn't typical of my experience in MWO, even at Tier3, so take heart!

Also, don't assume that you'll never make t2 or t1. Years ago, one of the best players I've known in this game told me that the thing that truly separates the best from the rest isn't reflexes, or fine motor control - it's practice, and study, to practice right. Sure, there are people who do that and have great reflexes, or a mind for the game, but they're rare, and not the only people in Tier 1.

Oh my God! I remember reading your guides years ago and the one with the illustrations by fat4eyes and they are very much mechwarrior gospel!
Thank you for reminding me of it and I highly recommend everyone that lays eyes on this post read that guide or re-read it!
Why are you still reading this? Go read That. And the illustrations that are linked in the thread by fat4eyes!

crazytimes, on 02 September 2022 - 02:26 PM, said:

I am absolutely terrible at aiming, I can't lead long range PPC or dakka for the life of me, I have the reaction speed of a snail on valium, and I regularly play memes because I find them entertaining. My Ice Ferret is one of my most enjoyable mechs, and my raven does most of its damage by accidentally ramming my own team.

Thanks, I haven't laughed out loud from reading a post in a while and my wife thought I lost my mind when I burst out laughing at this!

crazytimes, on 02 September 2022 - 02:26 PM, said:

Your main goal should be fun. If you're not having fun... then don't play.

True words and great advice. I just hate to see people try to ruin other peoples good time by being a jerk.
What I'm getting from most responses is that not only does it not get better but that it can become worse.
Fun is my goal, it must suck for the people that feel otherwise.

Kiran Yagami, on 02 September 2022 - 10:02 AM, said:

If there was a tier for basic competence, it would be sparsely populated.

I can only like your post once, but they can't stop me from quoting it again so that more people can see it!

Edited by Stab Wound, 02 September 2022 - 04:30 PM.