66 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Well, the post I was responding to LITERALLY SAID to go hide in a corner and wait until the fight starts. So that's what I've been talking about. What have you been talking about? =)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Void Angel, on 04 September 2022 - 06:14 PM, said:

Well, the post I was responding to LITERALLY SAID to go hide in a corner and wait until the fight starts. So that's what I've been talking about. What have you been talking about? =)

Cool, your response to that though was a bit misleading because sometimes there just isn't an optimal path nor is keeping up with the nascar always the right approach. I did misread the post you were responding to a bit about the corner piece.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 September 2022 - 08:38 PM.

[Void Angel]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 September 2022 - 08:34 PM, said:

Cool, your response to that though was a bit misleading because sometimes there just isn't an optimal path nor is keeping up with the nascar always the right approach. I did misread the post you were responding to a bit about the corner piece.

That's why I included qualifying language like "usually," and "It's happened to me." There are always tactical considerations that result in idiosyncratic conditions - but generally, I've always been able to reach the team without being crippled, even when I get caught and take some damage. Sometimes I've died five freaking feet from my unresponsive team, too... And I've been the teammate who goes back and shoots at the people trying to drag my teammate down. But I'm still deeply suspicious of the idea that hiding and trying to re-engage is going to be a good general policy.

[sosegado]

Escef, on 04 September 2022 - 01:15 PM, said:

Other than starting each match by singing your own praises?

Yeah, I was in 2 matches with you this past morning. Not sure if you were joking, or...?

Yeah, mostly I meant I don't complain when the team runs off. They have their own agenda and I understand. I also understand being the sacrificial lamb for the sake of a better tactical situation. That doesn't always happen.

Either your assault gets caught by lights and has to fight, it catches up with the main group and can be helpful, or it catches up with the main group and the fight is over it's cleanup time, or it catches up and it's firepower is useless because most of the team are dead, or scattered, and the battle could have gone differently if they just held off the engagement for mere moments.
Maximizing the best outcome should be considered basic.
When some comm jockey calls out the assault for being slow, that's just mind boggling. Most assault pilots left alone that I've seen (besides myself), are trying to catch up. There's no turbo gear, and the terrain can be unforgiving even when your trying to cut corners to minimize time to group up.

Yep, I'm a goofball! I love joking around before a match(sometimes during). I'm a mixed bag of fun and stupidity. Don't take my inanities seriously. I mostly babble to bleed off nervous energy or cheer on the team, and sometimes I try to be funny. (mostly unsuccessfully)
Beside, I am my biggest fan.

Edited by Stab Wound, 05 September 2022 - 04:41 AM.

[cazeral]

Lockheed_, on 02 September 2022 - 10:30 AM, said:

That's pretty common in T1 as well. Especially if you have a competent group on your team losing one random assault often doesn't really matter. You have a better chance finding "decency" in T5 then in T1 if you mean waiting for assaults etc. Also in T1 the competence of light players that come for the slow stragglers is much higher, so if you are already unhappy in T4/5 you won't find any improvement in higher tiers.

I don't think you'll find what you are looking for in higher tiers.

Best bet, unless you are desperate to end up in the miserably predictable T1 cadre, is to go to Settings, Select "Hide Tier in Front End" and Save. Tier no longer becomes an arbitrary tag to focus on and you can get to enjoying drops . . . far more fun

[Escef]

Stab Wound, on 05 September 2022 - 03:36 AM, said:

Yep, I'm a goofball! I love joking around before a match(sometimes during). I'm a mixed bag of fun and stupidity. Don't take my inanities seriously. I mostly babble to bleed off nervous energy or cheer on the team, and sometimes I try to be funny. (mostly unsuccessfully)
Beside, I am my biggest fan.

Fair. I've made plenty of jokes that didn't land well.

[Brizna]

Void Angel, on 04 September 2022 - 06:14 PM, said:

Well, the post I was responding to LITERALLY SAID to go hide in a corner and wait until the fight starts. So that's what I've been talking about. What have you been talking about? =)

Obviously, hiding too long or too far is bad, but if properly executed... let's say not many enemies can survive 10 seconds when their but is exposed to a properly built assault mech.

Execution depends on map, what your team is actually doing, your range, DPS and DPHeat, but hiding sure beats being blown up while hopelessly trying to keep up with your team. Doing the unexpected while using your brain works very well most of the time.

[Bassault]

cazeral, on 05 September 2022 - 04:07 AM, said:

Best bet, unless you are desperate to end up in the miserably predictable T1 cadre, is to go to Settings, Select "Hide Tier in Front End" and Save. Tier no longer becomes an arbitrary tag to focus on and you can get to enjoying drops . . . far more fun

cope

[Hunka Junk]

Stab Wound, on 05 September 2022 - 03:36 AM, said:

Maximizing the best outcome should be considered basic.

And the best basic outcome here is for you not to pilot assaults if you cannot hold your own in them and expect the team to hold your hand.

Most assault pilots in this game function without escorts.

You're blaming everyone but yourself for this situation.

You are dragging your teams down with this attitude while talking all about how strategic you expect your team to be.

I experiment with mechs I perform poorly in from time to time. Everybody does.

But if a mech means I can't hold my own, getting damage, and getting kills, then I move on.

There are a million mechs in this game, and you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Essentially, yes. A smart pilot will note that they're coming up short all the time that X happens, and instead of blaming those around them, will find a way to modify what they do in that situation. Or find a way to minimize being in that situation.

[ThreeStooges]

Most people just lemming to the same grid. I can tell which side is going to win just by seeing how many the lemings get to the grid first. Game mode doesn't really matter. Don't even start on the stupidity of domination racing for theta when there are literately four other caps that you can easily win by taking and ignoring theta completely.

[1Exitar1]

Never be afraid to call for help. Some fast mover can get back to you to help or a closer medium/heavy. I know I have played a couple of matches where I was running from spot to spot helping people that were calling for help and that is almost all I did!

Maybe try something other than a slow moving assault? I really got started in an MLX-G and then tried out a Fafnir and now I'm in a Crusader! There is so much variety here, give it a try!

[XenoWraith]

Kanil, on 04 September 2022 - 01:36 PM, said:

Yeah, it's totally not hard to lead the charge in a 55 KPH assault 'mech. Most people run off at full throttle until first contact with the enemy, at which point timidity kicks in and they stop -- this is where you catch up and get yourself involved in the game.

Anyway, with regard to the OP: others have said it already, but there's not really any point where basic competence shows up. There's also no hard break point where "I'm tier 2 now, things are different" or whatever, it's just a slow progression from "see astonishingly dumb things happen every match" to "see astonishingly dumb things happen only sometimes".

I don’t mind a little bit of timidity but it gets ridiculous when half your team chooses to straight abandon you despite being able to hard punish anyone trying to take advantage of a team mate attempting to reposition because their afraid to scratch the paint. I hate to break it to those that care about their paint jobs but the paint after every match is free. It’s honestly worse than the entire team not doing anything at all except preparing every team mate to get rolled over in a 0-12 stomp.

[sosegado]

Hunka Junk, on 05 September 2022 - 09:38 AM, said:

And the best basic outcome here is for you not to pilot assaults if you cannot hold your own in them and expect the team to hold your hand.
Most assault pilots in this game function without escorts.
You're blaming everyone but yourself for this situation.
You are dragging your teams down with this attitude while talking all about how strategic you expect your team to be.
I experiment with mechs I perform poorly in from time to time. Everybody does.
But if a mech means I can't hold my own, getting damage, and getting kills, then I move on.
There are a million mechs in this game, and you are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Wow, I can't tell if you're being a troll right now?
You are fixated on the example I gave while simultaneously ignoring the question it generated in me that prompted the creation of this topic.

There's been a lot of complaint threads, in the past, from assault pilots about their team abandoning them, but this isn't one of those. Although I'm seeing a slight trend toward other posters besides yourself leaning toward discussing that aspect. If I didn't make it perfectly clear that it's not a complaint thread and that's where the confusion lies, I'll own that.


Reread this:

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 08:41 AM, said:

...I just follow and hope they can see on the mini map that they're leaving their assault behind. I have enough skill to protect myself for a short while if I get jumped by a light or two and I know how to ask for help if I really need it so I don't even care anymore.

And reread this:

Stab Wound, on 02 September 2022 - 08:41 AM, said:

Yeah, mostly I meant I don't complain when the team runs off. They have their own agenda and I understand. I also understand being the sacrificial lamb for the sake of a better tactical situation. That doesn't always happen.

I just want to know what the community considers "basic competence". And I've gotten some really worthwhile responses. I'm not at all disappointed in making this thread because it's a real 'inside look' into what people in different tiers consider 'basic'.

Team cohesion seems pretty basic and waiting to group up before attacking is a very strong tactic.

Using comms correctly is not 'basic competence' it requires some real skill.

Yelling at an assault over comms to "catch up" is ignorant and more like peacocking than any attempt at real leadership.

But, hey, your responses are insightful too. Just in a different way. So no hard feelings for my part.
Cya on the battlefield!

Edited by Stab Wound, 06 September 2022 - 01:25 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Oh yeah, you haven't been reading, but listen to me go right back to the same schtick about how it's the team's fault I'm dying.

Basic competence is being able to play well without blaming your team for your shortcomings.

You lack basic competence in piloting assaults and want to project that incompetence onto others.

Stab Wound, on 05 September 2022 - 08:48 PM, said:

Wow, I can't tell if you're being a troll right now?
You are fixated on the example I gave while simultaneously ignoring the question it generated in me that prompted the creation of this topic.

There's been a lot of complaint threads, in the past, from assault pilots about their team abandoning them, but this isn't one of those. Although I'm seeing a slight trend toward other posters besides yourself leaning toward discussing that aspect. If I didn't make it perfectly clear that it's not a complaint thread and that's where the confusion lies, I'll own that.

You're not presenting a question. You are repeatedly blaming your team for your own incompetence. A bunch of people choose assaults for their own interest in self-preservation at the team's expense. That's why you see so many low-tier assaults sitting in back watching lights, mediums, and heavies fight. It's why we have DireWolf pilots up on the rim of HPG sniping: selfishness.

Blaming your team for you dying is peacocking.

Saying this isn't a complaint thread when you pose a question that you rolled in with the answer to is still complaining.

I hope I don't see you on the battlefield because we don't need more people who die early blaming their teams for their own incompetence. This game is rife with that.

[Void Angel]

Hunk, you're coming away with a lot more complaining out of this guy's posts than you found in them. Consider This Post, and notice who liked it without argument. This is consistent with his posting throughout.

When someone tells you "Hey, I'm not intending to say any of the things you're accusing me of," and their forum conduct backs that up... It's not reasonable to insist that your first-impression reading of their posts is still right, regardless of how they try to clarify. You've made a lot of accusations based purely on your subjective opinion, leavened with liberally with rudeness and condescension. We don't need more people coming to a topic to pick fights and be unconstructive, because they were triggered by a thread title and a hasty reading of the OP. The forums are rife with that.

Cut it out.

[Hunka Junk]

Void Angel, on 06 September 2022 - 03:38 AM, said:

Hunk, you're coming away with a lot more complaining out of this guy's posts than you found in them. Consider This Post, and notice who liked it without argument. This is consistent with his posting throughout.

When someone tells you "Hey, I'm not intending to say any of the things you're accusing me of," and their forum conduct backs that up... It's not reasonable to insist that your first-impression reading of their posts is still right, regardless of how they try to clarify. You've made a lot of accusations based purely on your subjective opinion, leavened with liberally with rudeness and condescension. We don't need more people coming to a topic to pick fights and be unconstructive, because they were triggered by a thread title and a hasty reading of the OP. The forums are rife with that.

Cut it out.

Condescending is where this thread started and never left. "I don't mean to say what you're accusing me of. It's just that I'm going to say it again in different words."

[An6ryMan69]

Quickplay is generally a free-for-all, and everybody needs to take a pretty high degree of personal ownership of what goes on.

That starts with mech selection - personally I find assaults to be the mechs most impacted by team dynamics, including people doing stupid things like running away from you, or not scouting, or not locking targets, or shooting you in the back, or whatever.

Don't let all the guns fool you, big and slow is often not the way to go when dropping with a bunch of randoms.

My experience is mobility and adaptability keep me alive much longer than firepower or armor, and generally make me less subject to what the mob is currently doing.

I get much less frustrated with my own team if I'm in a Phoenix Hawk than if I'm in an Atlas, and generally have much more control over my own fate.

[Void Angel]

Hunka Junk, on 06 September 2022 - 06:19 AM, said:

Condescending is where this thread started and never left. "I don't mean to say what you're accusing me of. It's just that I'm going to say it again in different words."

He clarified his position, and you ignored him based on your subjective interpretation. And now someone else is trying to tell you the same thing, and giving you reasons, and you just... ignore every argument or explanation you're given, only to stubbornly repeat yourself. You even used different words. YOU are the only one doing the things you're accusing him of doing - so be constructive, or go away.

[Void Angel]

An6ryMan69, on 06 September 2022 - 08:34 AM, said:

Quickplay is generally a free-for-all, and everybody needs to take a pretty high degree of personal ownership of what goes on.

That starts with mech selection - personally I find assaults to be the mechs most impacted by team dynamics, including people doing stupid things like running away from you, or not scouting, or not locking targets, or shooting you in the back, or whatever.

Don't let all the guns fool you, big and slow is often not the way to go when dropping with a bunch of randoms.

My experience is mobility and adaptability keep me alive much longer than firepower or armor, and generally make me less subject to what the mob is currently doing.

I get much less frustrated with my own team if I'm in a Phoenix Hawk than if I'm in an Atlas, and generally have much more control over my own fate.

I've had the same experience in the past, where my tactical sense wasn't syncing well with what other people were doing. So I'd expect the team to do one thing, and they'd... not, leaving my Assault or Heavy high and dry, and my matches in a losing streak. When I had those runs, I found playing my Spider 5D to have a greater affect on the outcome of my matches (just by spotting the enemy team and vocally relaying that information) than the guns of my Assault and Heavy chassis.