24 replies to this topic

[SirNotlag]

I was looking over all the mechs in my hangar and I use double heatsinks on all of them. I know doubles are supposed to be better as it costs 1.5 mil to upgrade to them and they are a more advanced technology but I am trying to think of any mech where its more useful to have singles.

The only situation might be a 20 tonner that doesn't generate much heat and has alot of heat sinks outside of the engine that take up slots.

I'm sure theres also some heavy out there that can pack 2 large lasers and 6 mediums and then just have every slot filled with singles to maximize cooling but I figure doubles would still be a better choice.

What are the stats of the 2 heat sinks I cant find them anywhere?
I know the heat sinks built into the engine have double the heat disputation and other doubles are less. I have also heard that singles increase the heat capacity more than doubles so you can build up more heat before shutting down but thats not as useful as bleeding the heat off to continue fighting.

So the numbers are something like?

Singles dissipate 1hps and increase capacity by 1.1 both built into the engine and out of it?

Doubles dissipate 2hps and increase heat capacity by 1.0 built into the engine and dissipate 1.4
and increase heat capacity by 1.0 if added?

[Escef]

Only a couple of really niche builds. Like, medium laser boat Banshee, or twin Light Gauss Hunchback.

[w0qj]

If you search the MWO Forums really hard, there are a few postings from Solaris7 (2021) veterans that they use SHS (Single Heat Sinks) for their Solaris7 fights 1vs1. Guess no need for cooling, you can only fire off so many shots, win or lose!

I would venture to guess for 1vs1 Solaris 7 Events (2022+) that SHS (Single Heat Sinks) can also be deployed...

As you've already noted, SHS has better heat capacity... but worse cooling...

[SirNotlag]

after scouring the patch notes I finally found current numbers

First 10 heat sinks provide 2 heat threshold regardless of built into engine or not, so every mech gets starting 20 heat threshold before shutting down. There is no longer a difference between engine heat sinks and external heatsinks in dissipation.

Single heat sinks
Dissipate 0.15 heat per second and increase heat threshold by 0.85 past 10 heat sinks.

Double heat sinks
Dissipate 0.22 heat per second and increase heat threshold by 0.5 past 10 heat sinks.

There is also the fact that standing in water doubles the dissipation of heat sinks in the legs. this is very useful on viridian bog as almost all of the map is covered in pools of water so you get this bonus the entire time.

I'm just going to do a thought experiment on mechs with 14 heat sinks so 4 singles can be stuck in the legs.

14 Single heat sinks
dissipate 2.1 heat per second out of water 2.7 heat per second in water with 23.4 heat threshold.

14 double heat sinks
dissipate 3.08 heat per second with a threshold of 22
For the clans that can put 2 doubles in their legs this bumps up to 3.52 dissipation in water.

For IS mechs the singles would also only take up the 4 slots in the legs instead of 12 slots in the arms and torsos.

[ThreeStooges]

I use shs a lot in my 20ts and some times on my 35ts. Most builds are for fun and not meta of any kind. Still find ac 20 on the raven fun.

[1453 R]

Any build that can practically* run single heat sinks is likely a build that needs to be rethought from the bottom up. Even if doubles aren't remotely "double" anymore, getting half again the cooling per ton is a big deal. There might be some argument for SHS on super edge case 'Mechs that need every last slot they can and run naturally cool anyways, but the increased heat capacity from SHS is a total nothingburger. it doesn't matter for spit unless you can somehow cram so many SHS in a 'Mech that you get an entire extra click from your weapons, and after that point your cooling rate is so slow you won't be able to fire again until the match is over.

[Alex Morgaine]

2 HGR with a sub 100ton mech. i can squeeze down to about 70 tons and be viable with SHS fill and 5 tons ammo. low on ammo but 1-2 1v1 brawls is all its good for. maybe squeeze a half ton small for something when out of ammo...

[Bassault]

Annihilator 4 hppc
https://mwo.nav-alph...324e40d0_ANH-1P
Annihilator 5 lpl
https://mwo.nav-alph...5b997303_ANH-1P

Super high mounted, can alpha due to high *** heat capacity.

[Alstren]

Did some one say single heat sink builds?

Bruce https://mwo.nav-alph...=86c65d14_PIR-1

The Hollander https://mwo.nav-alph...=b184a833_FS9-H

Spam Panther https://mwo.nav-alph...996bc66_PNT-10P

A Real Urbi https://mwo.nav-alph...92cf9e4_UM-R60L

Lurmbi https://mwo.nav-alph...1ca8752_UM-R68L

The Big Iron https://mwo.nav-alph...24c29586_HBK-GI

[SirNotlag]

These builds look hilarious and are giving me some ideas.

[XenoWraith]

If you’re asking for meta shs builds then only very specific, laser vomit builds that can’t use up it’s tonnage. Even then it is better to run dhs and use the tonnage savings for your engine. The only time anyone will consider using shs is for padding but then losing one will cause you to heat up even faster and stay out of the fight longer so this is only considered if you are already running cold which most IS mechs won’t be able to do.

However there are meme builds out there that do work that shouldn’t work but it just does.

[LordNothing]

i have a few. many are urbies or other lights. using shs to save space. i think i also have a tbolt energy boat that has an absurd quantity of shs. its good to fire off a few consecutive alphas, but then it takes awhile to cool off. you cant do that with dhs, where you usually get one, perhaps two good alpha and a shorter cool off time. the shs boat fires again while the dhs boat would be ducking into cover to cool off.

that said id like to see shs heat capacity quirks to make them more useful than they are. boating sinks requires a lot of surplus tonnage and not every build can do that. it would be especially useful on space starved variants.

[BumbleBee]

Going back years ago im pretty sure that there were some Stalker and Awesome builds that used single heat sinks and worked better with singles than doubles

https://mwomercs.com...ick-shs-builds/

https://mwomercs.com...at-sink-builds/

Too bad that the actual builds were done in smurfys and can no longer be seen

[Lord Sevenous]

The 9 MedLas Thunderbolt Top Dog with 22+10 SHS is a build that benefits from the high heat threshhold (The DHS build would be 10+10)
This build has almost the same cooling time as the DHS build BUT can squeeze out atleast one more 45dmg Alpha (in total 4 without override) of course to cram so many SHS in it you will have to armor a bit down (Legs, Head and useless Arm) and use a LFE instead of a Std but imho it is worth it....

Even the 5SS 7 MedPulse with 17+10 SHS benefits from it.....
(also 1 Alpha more than the DHS 8+10 build)

Also the crit padding mechanic should be considered:
Loosing one or two SHS or even one or two weapons is not crippling in such builds BUT loosing one or two DHS (which are 3x more likely to get critted) is another thing....

Edited by Lord Sevenous, 05 September 2022 - 09:26 PM.

[Curccu]

Highlander-IIC-A can alpha 4x cERPPCs with SHS build and not go over 100 heat.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Curccu, on 05 September 2022 - 08:59 PM, said:

Highlander-IIC-A can alpha 4x cERPPCs with SHS build and not go over 100 heat.

You can do that with double heat sinks too. And when you do, you're shedding 6 heat per second afterward. Packed full of singles, you're looking at under 5 heat per second shed.

As stated, the ONLY use for mass single heat sinks is to soak heat from a massive alpha strike and then go hide for a while before you do it again. in all other cases, doubles are better.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

SHS are better than DHS in a few edge cases where the amount of HS you can install surpasses the heat dissipation of DHS because you just can mount more. The majority of these are on IS chassis. A few examples:

https://mwo.nav-alph...b2885914_BNC-3M

https://mwo.nav-alph...ca7328f9_ANH-1P

[PocketYoda]

This personally
anh-1e

[ScrapIron Prime]

Nomad Tech, on 07 September 2022 - 08:09 AM, said:

This personally
anh-1e

Sure, but that build has basically the same heat and firepower as a Grasshopper 5J... which actually has an HSL quirk for those ERLL and is 30 tons lighter, jumps, and is faster.

[PocketYoda]

ScrapIron Prime, on 07 September 2022 - 08:49 AM, said:

Sure, but that build has basically the same heat and firepower as a Grasshopper 5J... which actually has an HSL quirk for those ERLL and is 30 tons lighter, jumps, and is faster.

Yes but the Grasshopper cannot spam the weapons like an Anni can.. or the armor..

Edited by Nomad Tech, 07 September 2022 - 04:59 PM.