53 replies to this topic

[Heavy Money]

Frendly Pythagorean Natteri Tato, on 15 September 2022 - 02:16 PM, said:

Yes I see what he is saying. Just last night I was playing and a four-man group with Cauldron members was in it, two guys in Jgx were there (Is this the unit you were referring to?? Or are we not allowed to say?) and two other decent players who I don't recall. They were indeed in long-range builds and one of them was in a viper with a bunch of mgs that would shred anyone who tried to flank. I also recall before changes were made that it was possible to effect sniper groups with quick flanker mechs without being annhilated by mg spam or fast srm bombers.

Not sure if they even lost all night... There weren't really any other of the top units playing. I guess they were just stat harvesting to conquer the leaderboards. Kinda weird cauldron players would care about that.

Doesn't seem very ethical if you are trusted with a position of power to buff the preferred playstyle of your unit and weaken the counters to it that had always previously existed... Maybe it's an inmates-running-the-asylum type deal now if there is no effective oversight.

Maybe they get away with it because most of the tiers don't play against them so there are not enough people to report on it?? They switch to their known smrf unit sometimes to stay under the radar, but I guess that's allowed. Pretty bizarre.

Ihlrath, on 15 September 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

Caldron buffing their prefered play style while nerfing every counter to it..... I mean people have been saying this for a long time but yet nothing gets done about it and the player base just keeps shrinking and shrinking...


But hey at least they can epeen all over everyone about how awesome they are and how everyone needs to 'git gud'. That's the point of online gaming isn't it?

Nothing is done because its obviously an absurd claim. Those top players will win in any playstyle. They are all their "preferred playstyle". Maybe next time you'll fight them in brawlers. I've run into them in every sort of mech combination and playstyle. They win because of skill, coordination, and practice.

We just went through the snubpocalpyse, and before that these forums were full of whining about Machine Guns and lights. And yet simultaneously, people complain that the cauldron is making sniping too powerful. Snipers and their counters are simultaneously OP if the discussion trends here are anything to go by.

Meanwhile, the top performing builds in QP on average are still mid range things like laservomit and uac5/10 dakka. Did you all somehow not notice the SNS-D lately?

Edited by Heavy Money, 15 September 2022 - 04:04 PM.

[pattonesque]

Ihlrath, on 15 September 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

Caldron buffing their prefered play style while nerfing every counter to it..... I mean people have been saying this for a long time but yet nothing gets done about it and the player base just keeps shrinking and shrinking...


But hey at least they can epeen all over everyone about how awesome they are and how everyone needs to 'git gud'. That's the point of online gaming isn't it?

Cauldron patches have massively, massively improved short-range brawling. Red lasers, big autocannons, SRMs, snubs, all viable now. Centurions are good, dude.

[Ihlrath]

Which doesn't effectively counter a sniper group with most of the new maps. Not all their changes were bad, but saying they haven't slanted the game to the game play they prefer just doesn't hold water.

And I would have total respect for it, if they just stopped trying to play it off as that wasn't their intention.

[Heavy Money]

Ihlrath, on 15 September 2022 - 04:19 PM, said:

Which doesn't effectively counter a sniper group with most of the new maps. Not all their changes were bad, but saying they haven't slanted the game to the game play they prefer just doesn't hold water.

And I would have total respect for it, if they just stopped trying to play it off as that wasn't their intention.

The game was dominated by Snipers before any Cauldron changes. It was cERPPCs all day. Brawling was much less viable than it is now. They have improved other long range weapons so now you have choices instead of just cERPPC (which are more vulnerably to counters in most circumstances. ERLLS are much worse against a viper than cERPPC.)

You are simply wrong. The vast majority of their changes have gone to playstyles other than sniping. Brawling is more viable than before. Mid range is more viable than before. There are more options to counter snipers than before, and those options are better on their own too.

Top players have been locking down games with ranged control strats for a long time. It did not require any of the Cauldron's changes. Ranged control strats dominating the top tiers of play is a universal in shooter games, not just MWO. It has to do with a lot of factors beyond just weapon balance.

Edited by Heavy Money, 15 September 2022 - 04:30 PM.

[Vlads Brain]

Which is why I'm playing the sniper spoiler on this account. The challenge of denying them map control and maybe taking a few of them out is quite satisfying.

[Ihlrath]

The best counter I've found to snipers is terrain. Experience may vary I suppose but I continually see long range slap and tickle and the only way to really counter it is map knowledge and speed.

[Kroete]

Ihlrath, on 15 September 2022 - 03:16 PM, said:

Caldron buffing their prefered play style while nerfing every counter to it..... I mean people have been saying this for a long time but yet nothing gets done about it and the player base just keeps shrinking and shrinking...

But they claimed:
All weapons will be useable,
no weapon wiill be nerfed,
no agenda,
no higher alphas,
ttk will not be shorter,
no extrem quirks, likle 50%,
rescale of mechs will counter highter damage and lead to longer ttk,
....

A minority of loud populist managed to manipulate the mass,
that dont understand what realy happens,
to follow their agenda and shouted all critisim down.

In the big as well in the small, it works and it doenst allways needs funny hairs.

[PocketYoda]

Personally most ranged mechs can be ignore able, use terrain as your shield, focus on their front line wipe them out then mop up the useless snipers. Many of them are.

Edited by Nomad Tech, 16 September 2022 - 08:24 AM.

[Ihlrath]

All I'm saying is that if you pilot a sniper....

I have a certain set of skills
Skills I learned while watching you tube.
If you snipe.
I will look for you.
I will find you.
And I will explode and die in your general direction.

[RockmachinE]

Vlads Brain, on 12 September 2022 - 07:36 PM, said:

Fle-20

fle-20

skills a57158d8d744d8a460449cdf5ee20743cc05b0000c06e134a06676c000000

432 optimal 148kph decent heat management.

Lights and mediums can sometimes be one shot if they frontloaded their armor and have low structure.

Under real game conditions there's no way a 25 laser burn alpha will one shot a healthy mech.

Kroete, on 16 September 2022 - 01:47 AM, said:

But they claimed:
All weapons will be useable,
no weapon wiill be nerfed,
no agenda,
no higher alphas,
ttk will not be shorter,
no extrem quirks, likle 50%,
rescale of mechs will counter highter damage and lead to longer ttk,
....

A minority of loud populist managed to manipulate the mass,
that dont understand what realy happens,
to follow their agenda and shouted all critisim down.

In the big as well in the small, it works and it doenst allways needs funny hairs.

I've been saying this since the start of the Cauldron "balance". The game is not more balanced just different. In fact less weapon systems are in use then before Cauldron started messing with the game. Haven't been playing much precisely because of that.

[martian]

Louis Brofist, on 18 September 2022 - 06:51 AM, said:

Under real game conditions there's no way a 25 laser burn alpha will one shot a healthy mech.

Some sniping UrbanMech with 2-3 points of rear torso armor and 20 points of internal structure would die to 25-point backshot. Some snipers playing with the Superzoom often do not pay attention to what is going on in their vicinity.

[1453 R]

Reminder: this thread is about "Sniper Hunting Builds", not about insane Internet conspiracy wonk Cauldron theories.

Proposal: play the Vapor Eagle like a god damn Vapor Eagle instead of a trundling assault bloatboat with an engine dropping it below 50kph movement speed. Example (VGL-)A: quad ASRM-6 with a couple of heavy medium lasers just to give it a bit of extra bite when it has a chance to unload, with enough speed and jet capacity to get where it needs to go instead of being run with some dumba@# 175-rated engine or such garbage because "oooh high mounts let's shove seven Gauss Rifles in them no matter what incredibly stupid decisions we have to make!" Heck, even a mostly stock VGL-1 can be made perfectly workable with just a few cheap tweaks. It's basically a gigantic Saber at that point, but that's fine because the Vapor Eagle is something of a gigantic Incubus anyways. My own VGL-1 is a hinky bastardized pile of nonsense primarily because of my love affair with heavy lasers, but it's still more than quick enough to get in a sniper's face, and has plenty of firepower and endurance to scrap the things with.

Plus you get the surprise factor of your Goshawk being a swift and agile skirmisher/duelist instead of a plodding, ultra-slow sniper thing redolent with assault 'Mech firepower but unable to move! What a strange and weird surprise that will be for your enemies!
.
..
...GDI, MWO playerbase...

[Vlads Brain]

Louis Brofist, on 18 September 2022 - 06:51 AM, said:

Under real game conditions there's no way a 25 laser burn alpha will one shot a healthy mech.

Umm most lights and some mediums have very low structure and they frontload their armor usually only leaving a few points on their rear ct. You can most certainly one shot many light and medium mechs from the rear. Lots of mechs are guilty of this and I happily exploit it. I can get some heavies and assaults into a yellow or even red ct after just one shot too because they skimped on rear armor.

[RockmachinE]

At higher Tiers you will never be able to take a 5ML Flea, sneak up to a light that's standing still, dump a 25 point laser burn into their back and have them not react to it. That's why I said under real game conditions.

Maybe at lower Tiers that's how the game goes down, I don't know. In T1 this is impossible. No one will stand still for that long, or not react once the burn starts.

Edited by Louis Brofist, 18 September 2022 - 10:57 AM.

[Vlads Brain]

Louis Brofist, on 18 September 2022 - 10:47 AM, said:

At higher Tiers you will never be able to take a 5ML Flea, sneak up to a light that's standing still, dump a 25 point laser burn into their back and have them not react to it. That's why I said under real game conditions.

Maybe at lower Tiers that's how the game goes down, I don't know. In T1 this is impossible. No one will stand still for that long, or not react once the burn starts.

Of course a player reacts to it if its not a one shot. Even low tiers will react most times. But there is no way to react if you get one shot and a tier 1 player in a flea with frontloaded armor dies every single time to a 25 point alpha and most tier 1 players usually fully frontload sometimes with no rear armor on lights. I see DATA and other top players do this all the time but they run in packs and don't often solo or stop moving to get in that targeted burn. But snipers with escort are typically stationary along with their escort as long as you inserted yourself properly and they are not overly skittish. This is where the 432m optimal comes into play and you can drop a strike to hide your burn too so they don't come looking for you afterwards.

[RockmachinE]

You're speaking theoretically, sure. But in game its a different story. I challenge you to 1 shot a fresh light with a flea in a T1 game. It just doesnt happen.

[Vlads Brain]

Louis Brofist, on 18 September 2022 - 11:42 AM, said:

You're speaking theoretically, sure. But in game its a different story. I challenge you to 1 shot a fresh light with a flea in a T1 game. It just doesnt happen.

Lol.. It happens because I do it all the time. Not every t1 player is a world class player and most are simply average since psr is a gradient and not a hard gauge of skill. Trust there are plenty of easy kills even at tippy top tier 1 quick play. But few do the sneaky sneak play style because its not psr friendly and harder to advance over just lancing up in some gunboats and obliterating everything in front of you so it's not seen very much.

[RockmachinE]

6 day old account, seal clubbing in T5 doesn't count my boy.

[Vlads Brain]

Louis Brofist, on 18 September 2022 - 01:25 PM, said:

6 day old account, seal clubbing in T5 doesn't count my boy.

On this account yes. I did state in this thread that this was a fun time alt to only play the fle-20 and see how fast I can get to tier 1. Already just shy of tier 2 so not too much longer. Hell I blasted out of tier 5 in three games.

But anyways thanks for your opinion!

[YueFei]

[redacted]

So you're saying that the long-range guys need a screen of short-ranged guys to protect them? You mean they can't just all use long-range mechs?

Sounds like you think the game is well-balanced. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 19 September 2022 - 11:19 PM.
quote clean-up