33 replies to this topic

[Abisha]

title say it all the following mechs need buffing (armor only)

Timber wolf (not seen a single one in 3 day's of playing obvious reasons they to weak)
EBJ versions (again to weak)

those are the ones i play so i notice this sort of things obvious there are ton more mechs that is not being played because they are to weak

other mechs i don't play but know for sure they not being played
Hatamoto-chi
Zeus
Gargoyle

just keep buffing them till they being played again (each month like 5% armor till people see they are worth playing)

[1453 R]

No.

Armor isn't the reason seldom-seen 'Mechs are seldom seen. There's over nine hundred robits in this game. Some of them are gonna fall through the cracks. You'll never get a point of completely even distribution of all 'Mechs introduced, and "fixes" like this would do drastically more harm than good.

[martian]

Abisha, on 11 September 2022 - 11:25 PM, said:

title say it all the following mechs need buffing (armor only)

Timber wolf (not seen a single one in 3 day's of playing obvious reasons they to weak)
EBJ versions (again to weak)

those are the ones i play so i notice this sort of things obvious there are ton more mechs that is not being played because they are to weak

other mechs i don't play but know for sure they not being played
Hatamoto-chi
Zeus
Gargoyle

just keep buffing them till they being played again (each month like 5% armor till people see they are worth playing)

The last weekend I played a few games and I would say that Mad Cats are more common in the game than you think.

The winning team had a pair of Mad Cats, the losing team included the Hero Mad Cat "Warrant".



Or this screen capture. The winning team had one Mad Cat, the defeated team had one Mad Cat and one Cauldron-Born.



Or this picture. One team had Hero Zeus "Skokomish", the other team had ZEU-9S2.



I know that I spotted Man-o'-War once or twice during the weekend.

I can not agree with your "mechs that is not being played because they are to weak" and "I know for sure they not being played" because I saw these 'Mechs in the game on Saturday and on Sunday.

And if I may say something, I think that Mad Cat and Cauldron-Born are pretty solid OmniMechs. I am glad that I had the opportunity to win them during previous challenges a few months ago. Both 'Mechs have served me well.

[ScrapIron Prime]

If you’re not seeing Timberwolves being played, then your experience is different from mine. I’m seeing numbers more like what Martian is posting.

Andyou can’t fix the Zeus with armor buffs. It’s geometry is just unforgiving.

[Duke Falcon]

Abisha, on 11 September 2022 - 11:25 PM, said:

title say it all the following mechs need buffing (armor only)

Timber wolf (not seen a single one in 3 day's of playing obvious reasons they to weak)
EBJ versions (again to weak)

those are the ones i play so i notice this sort of things obvious there are ton more mechs that is not being played because they are to weak

other mechs i don't play but know for sure they not being played
Hatamoto-chi
Zeus
Gargoyle

just keep buffing them till they being played again (each month like 5% armor till people see they are worth playing)

Ummmm... Nope?

Timberwolfs and Ebon jaguars are excellent mechs because can tank such an alpha... They seems fragile? No, they quite solid and that is one reason why so many of them is out there! Not just in FP (where they quite common) but in QP. When I last played QP both omni (+ Hellbringer and Mad dog) were common sight.

Old hata-sama? Situational. Feast or famine because they are more for speed than firepower (lorewise and gamewise). Could be very annoying I assure you. Drop some long-range weapons on them, stay with the pack, provide support fire and they would exceel. They trully do.
Zeus? Rare sight because basicly bugged (you see, lyran design). I met about a dozen of them since 1.5 years of playing but they never proven as an easy prey (not very though either but that is another story). Zeus seems to me as a niche-design thus not many knows how to field and use them properly. But more expereinced players could explain Zeus better than me...
Gargoyle. Ummm, not rare in FP but not common sight. Gargoyle and Executioner are not assaults as many think the meaning of the word "assault". Swift and maneuverable but not as tanky as an fAtlas. But in good hands they hurt. Really hurt.

And about the constant buff of chassis? No way. That would lead us into the grim, dark future of WH40k untill everyone would ride Imperator-class titans with extra armour buff and firepower equal with the Deathstar. You really wanna see only 1-3 mechs in games? No? But that would happen if you start to buff chosen mechs continually and be sure that it would have no end! If you buff them people whom would use them should decline any nerf on them even if huge IMBA occurs. Then comes the "My Motherload of Mechs are XYZ, change immediately or else" threads. Just sayin'...

[TheCaptainJZ]

Timberwolves are fairly common mechs and I am very happy with the performance of mine. No armor buff is needed to make them "viable"--they are already good! I'd rather see armor buffs on Jenners.

[Abisha]

martian, on 12 September 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

The last weekend I played a few games and I would say that Mad Cats are more common in the game than you think.

The winning team had a pair of Mad Cats, the losing team included the Hero Mad Cat "Warrant".



Or this screen capture. The winning team had one Mad Cat, the defeated team had one Mad Cat and one Cauldron-Born.



Or this picture. One team had Hero Zeus "Skokomish", the other team had ZEU-9S2.



I know that I spotted Man-o'-War once or twice during the weekend.

I can not agree with your "mechs that is not being played because they are to weak" and "I know for sure they not being played" because I saw these 'Mechs in the game on Saturday and on Sunday.

And if I may say something, I think that Mad Cat and Cauldron-Born are pretty solid OmniMechs. I am glad that I had the opportunity to win them during previous challenges a few months ago. Both 'Mechs have served me well.

i see the mad cat is common in your games must be a timezone thing then if i play no timber like ever.

Edited by Abisha, 12 September 2022 - 10:10 AM.

[1453 R]

Timberpuppies are everywhere. Cauldron-Born aren't honestly far behind, I see plenty of them. I see enough Hatamoto-Chis to know they're out there, and Mr. Gargles shows his face once or twice a night's solid gaming run.

The problem you see with things like Mr. Gargles is that he has ONE 'good' build - massed red laser spam - and that build requires a very specific mindset when running it. the fact that you need a super pricy Omni hero to run Mr. Gargles' other good build - SRMs - means you don't see it. If you aren't in the mood for the ONE thing Mr. Gargles does, you don't run Mr. Gargles.

Hatamoto-Chis have Same-Itis Syndrome - they're a moderately decent Inner Sphere light assault 'Mech with absolutely nothing to distinguish them from any other IS light assault 'Mech. The Zeus is honestly in the same boat, just with scattered hardpoints and weird geo that make it kinda butt in a game like MWO. Why run a Zeus and try to make all its haphazard nonsense work when you could run damn near anything else in that bracket and have a better, more focused build?

This is honestly one of the reasons why BattleTech is such a difficult thing to develop PC games for. Catalyst sells product by constantly inventing new units to populate random salvage tables with, pushing books with new stuff. They can just doctor up some art, print out a record sheet, and boom - brand new 'Mech. Doesn't matter that the new 'Mech is functionally no different than any of a dozen other older 'Mechs. Random salvage tables means you get what you get.

But in a game like MWO? Every new 'Mech is a serious cost investment, and it has to have a way to distinguish itself from the pack. It's why most old 'Mechs suck - they've been superseded by newer designs simply because Piranha has to work that way. PokeMech doesn't sell packs, nostalgia doesn't sell packs, and there's already hundreds and hundreds of 'Mechs in the game. There was no reason for the Zeus to exist in MWO, but 'Mech Dads insisted otherwise so now it does. And it gets to languish in the dustbin because there's no reason to use it. There's no random salvage tables restricting players from using their favorites/the best options, and there's no real lore-friendly way to distinguish the performance of different units. And no, "Forced Stock Mode" isn't the answer.

There's a reason no other game has remotely this many units in it, and when they come anywhere close the units cannot be customized. There's no reason for me to own a Hatamoto-Chi when I have Victors. There's no reason for me to run Mr. Gargles when I could run an Executioner instead. the longer you play the less incentive there is for you to chase new 'Mechs. By a certain point you've got what you really need and buying new robits is an occasional guilty-pleasure indulgence, not an overriding game driver.

[dario03]

Screenshot all your games for a bit and check for Timbers, you will probably see a good amount.

You will also probably see more Hatamotos pretty soon.

[Pixel Hunter]

I mean the ECM mad cat is one of the meta laser vomit mechs. maybe the ECM is why you don't see them

but yes, some mechs have horrid geometry. like my Orion. some matches you get close and pull 900 damage with the heavy gauss, some you get cored with 100 damage and die.

Edited by Pixel Hunter, 12 September 2022 - 06:55 PM.

[Kanil]

I honestly have no idea why the Zeus doesn't have armor quirks.

All of the other 80 ton IS random mishmash of low hardpoint 'mechs have 'em.

Edit: When was the last time I saw a Zeus anyway, let me just look through my screenshots...

Spoiler

Oh.

Edited by Kanil, 12 September 2022 - 07:34 PM.

[LordNothing]

yes pls buff the robbits that i play the most. thanks.

[PocketYoda]

Banshees need Armor help..
Battlemasters need more Armor
I never see Gargoyles..
Victors aren't very good
Awesomes are pretty bad

Osiris are useless.

Zeus are Viable if played right. (Play them like a medium mech)

Edited by Nomad Tech, 13 September 2022 - 07:35 AM.

[An6ryMan69]

Buffs are kind of for mechs that have significant design flaws (Orion, Zeus, Atlas) and the Timber Wolf and Ebon Jaguar were built properly in the first place.

You throw the armor buffs from your Inner Sphere Orion on a Timberwolf and it would be a ridiculous ***-kicker that would immediately need to be nerfed back down to earth.

[Bassault]

Abisha, on 11 September 2022 - 11:25 PM, said:

Timber wolf (not seen a single one in 3 day's of playing obvious reasons they to weak)

LOL

[Dekallis]

Ahahaha Buff the gargoyle again? If it gets much more armor it'll basically be a fast atlas. No the gargoyle doesn't need more buffs it's my most fielded mech by far and it's fine right now(I have a long history of piloting 'bad' mechs and trying to make them work). I wish there were an ECM capable variant, or was capable of downsizing it's engine a couple of sizes for more free tonnage for meaner builds, but that's about it I mean even downgrading to a 390 would free up more than 4 tons. You could do some nasty pulse laser stuff then...but i'm off topic.

As for the Zeus I've recently been running one and it's not a bad mech, side torso's are a little fragile like the gargoyle used to be before they buffed it if it were given anything it'd be something like sidetorso structure, a top speed quirk and maybe arm armor to encourage rotating to try to use the arms as shields. The recent changes to armor/structure skill's to benefit heavy and assault mechs more indirectly helped it. It's main flaw is the awkwardness of it's weapon locations it always feels like shots are coming from the 'wrong' angle when shooting with it.

As for timby's and Ebon's they're very popular mechs they've been played to death by people and most people who have them are just tired of using them. They still pop up often enough though, and the timby has to compete with it's own MK2 which has a very nice ballistic build most people would rather use than the more fragile original.

I've looked at the hatamoto-chi several times...but have yet to buy one. at glance it's basically in the zeus situation. I'd probably say it needs a speed quirk because both it's hero and only ecm capable variants are capped at a 325engine but the fact it's a assault mech that even has a ecm and access to stealth armor is notable It's clearly meant to be a hit and move mech rather than a stand up and brawl mech.at least in my opinion....now I might actually get one or two to try it out.Maybe do something with heavy ppcs...Proly wait for a sale though

[Davegt27]

OP you might be going about things the wrong way
you might need to go through the Caldron to get anywhere

I try not to get into the buff this nerf that side of things

the only Mech I asked to get buffed was the Atlas (years ago) and I did not even own an Atlas
I was just sick of them getting blasted to oblivion
I used to tell Atlas pilots to stay back so you don't die so quick

on the TBR and EBJ and other Mechs good luck
if your a low tier chitter they will probably will not listen to you

it is what it is in MWO

[Heavy Money]

Hatamoto is getting buffed next patch.

The other are all good mechs. TBR and EBJ are among the best mechs in the game. TBR is very common.

Gargoyle is less common because it is more situational. Zeus is funky but has several good builds. They are uncommon because they are weird, not because they are bad.

[Pixel Hunter]

Dekallis, on 13 September 2022 - 12:50 PM, said:

I wish there were an ECM capable variant,

oof. we need to ween this game off the ECM meta IMO. it's getting kind of nutty seeing teams with 75% of their mechs running ECM. Nerf ECM and Nerf indirect LRM (while giving an LOS buff)

[Valdarion Silarius]

I can safely say that my Gargoyle Kin Wolf does not need any armor buffs of any kind. That thing is a tanky monster and it even seems like when I brawl with it, I'm usually one of the last ones alive on my team. The Timberwolf and Ebon Jaguar do not need armor buffs either, maybe some hitbox adjustments but even so they are fine.

I'm really surprised that I don't see many Gargoyle builds either. They are definitely great and fall into the underrated category. Everyone has the mindset that you have to run short range brawler builds, but I'd argue that they work very well with mid range set ups too. I think a large reason why you don't see them often is an oversaturation role issue than a "this mech sucks" issue.